Fanjet

You should have been allowed in. Even if you weren't flying beyond JFK. I wonder if they got thrown off by the JFK-EZE segment in J. Did you mention what had happened to the AC staff?

no2chem

No. Is there some rule posted somewhere? The whole ticket was actually F with a voluntary downgrade to J for JFK-EZE.

They were insistent that LAX-JFK is not treated any differently than any other domestic flight, it has to be international. Maybe the evening staff didnt get the right training, but overall they made it quite an embarassing experience, id say. Also they called some supervisor who apparently confirmed no access. Something about the rules changing 2 weeks ago--seems like the rules are always changing for this lounge....

Fanjet

I can see why there is some confusion on their part (although I'm not excusing it). This is a new issue for them, as there was no airside access for AA fliers to use the QF lounge before a couple of weeks ago. Unless an AA flight was using a gate at TBIT. And I don't think AA ever scheduled a LAX-JFK flight out of TBIT.

Microwave

One lounge agent making up new rules doesn't make someone wrong. And the "whoever" in this case is the oneworld website, which is quite clear on this point:

no2chem

Ah. Well it didnt help much that my phone was out of batteries and I couldnt look up said site, but at least 3 lounge agents were involved in the decision to deny access. And honestly given how adamnt they were about it, I dont think the oneworld website would have changed their mind. I did reiterate, three class first class lax-jfk. They also apparently thought I didnt have access to the oneworld J lounge either.

I guess like in the past, the right place to complain is QF, but given whats happend in the past, I dont think anything is going to happen from it. (And what is the right thing to ask for when one is denied acccess to a FC lounge wrongly? Miles? A pass to go to that lounge in thw future?)

Microwave

I'd complain to QF and explain that the denial was in direct contravention to published rules. As far as asking for anything, I'd ask that they again refresh their staff on the rules.

grussellt

This is a continuing saga that should be fixed. Send your query by fax to :

Fx:+1 (310) 348 0751 J Lounge or F Lounge

It is really worth a follow up.

jamespvg

Might be worth dropping a note to American, too. Presumably Premium Services at LAX could exert some influence—and you were after all their customer.

JDiver

The information about LAX-JFK and LAX-MIA access came from a LAX Premium Services agent o/a 10 March; I can vouch for that. I believe the Qantas First staff were incorrect in barring you as you were in three class F LAX-JFK that day.

Andriyko

Can it be that AA grants access on selected domestic routes to J/F passengers only to its own lounges? It is, after all, an AA exception rather than an OW one (even on OW's website the wording does refer to AA lounges).

Microwave

The rules are definitely unclear, but the way I read it the lack of clarity actually leans toward access being granted, not against. The specific and entire paragraph is (emphasis in original):

So what it's saying is that first and business class passengers on domestic flights don't get access to AA operated lounges, but no mention is made to non-AA lounges at all. Read strictly, this rule only says that such passengers don't get access to the Admirals Club or Flagship Lounge. Since the actual rule is that "customers flying First or Business Class have access to the equivalent class of lounge regardless of their frequent flyer status", I read this specific restriction to that very broad access entitlement to apply only to Admirals Clubs and Flagship Lounges, leaving the door wide open to access to non-AA-operated oneworld lounges such as the ones at TBIT. The paragraph then goes on to say that first and business passengers on JFK-LAX, JFK-SFO and MIA-LAX do get lounge access, which seems to modify the above restriction (thus removing the limit from AA lounge access for them), and doesn't make any further restriction on what kind of lounge they can access, which by my reading leaves them open to all oneworld lounges, both AA and non-AA.

The way it's worded (and the way I'm reading it), it's a bit like saying: "Car drivers cannot use BP stations on highways in Anytown; If you drive your car on Anytown Highway 100, you are eligible to use petrol stations on this road." The first clause seems to limit car drivers from accessing BP stations without mentioning other petrol station brands at all, while the second clause indicates that petrol stations can be used on Highway 100 without any restriction on station operator at all.

At the end of the day, this rule is so poorly written that I can't find any reading of it that accurately describes 1) what's actually happening on the ground, or 2) what the rules are meant to say. So maybe this entire discussion is academic.

RogerD408

It may help to understand the hierarchy here. AA writes rules for AA's ACs and FLs that does not include OW clubs but does include OW members. OW writes rules for OW clubs that includes AA members.

Sounds like the issues from a few months back, that were supposedly resolved, have not been. It would be nice to have a clear decision tree showing who is and is not allowed access and when. There will always be a lag between when changes are announced and when they are implemented. Getting the agents updated is another challenge, especially when they don't keep up on their reading.

ashill

And a literal reading of the rule would be that the entire paragraph applies only to "First and Business Class customers who do not hold Emerald or Sapphire status" (emphasis added, with no exclusion for AA EXP/Plat), meaning that AA EXP/Plat in domestic F get class-of-service-based (not status-based) lounge access and that all Sapphires in domestic F would get class-of-service based F lounge access, which we know is not the case.

But I think the only reasonable interpretation of the rule by combining the wording with experience reported here is: 1) class-of-service based lounge access to any oneworld lounge for LAX/SFO-JFK/MIA [except MIA-SFO]. 2) No class-of-service based lounge access to any oneworld lounge for any other intra-North America (as defined by AA/oneworld for this particular purpose) itinerary.

And that no2chem was incorrectly denied access to the QF F lounge.

Of course, this hasn't been much of an issue before because there are no vaguely convenient non-AA oneworld lounges for AA passengers in JFK, MIA [not sure about that one; I've only been through MIA once, years ago], or SFO and weren't any in LAX until the connector opened.

MADPhil

There is a Oneworld lounge at MIA in the E concourse but I think it is managed by AA. I had no trouble accessing it in February on an AA domestic flight as BA Gold.

Microwave

Very good point. Yet another way this rule is horribly written!

Agree.

There is the MIA BA/IB/AA "Premium Lounge" in E, and I've not heard of anyone ever being denied access there.