brillb

It seems that really the only reason that the number of levels counts is because of the sticker system and the "upgrade within tier" rule being time-of-booking. So if you are EXP, you can buy at the last minute and succeed at getting an upgrade even in advance of Platinums on stickers (is that right?).

Of all the upgrade systems out there, US's system of "miles flown past year" really sort of results in an "unlimited tier" model, at least for upgrades. If you've flown more, you get higher priority. In a model with comp upgrades, that means that a 60,000 mile flyer is behind a 60,001 mile flyer on the list... so unlimited tiers.

With the break points (at least segment-wise) being so hugely far apart in the AA model, 60 vs 120 (eg, 15 weeks of flying for me), it seems they really do need a middle tier - or some other mechanism - to show that flying 100 segments is worth it.

Or am I reading this wrong?

ubernostrum

My expectations -- and rest assured I do pay attention -- were for some sort of compromise that preserved aspects of both programs. I'd have rated the most likely options to be either three-tier + UDUs offered to lower tiers, or four-tier + stickers.

Instead we got AAdvantage basically unchanged, and axed a bunch of the pmUS benefits. Not just the complimentary upgrades, either. For example, guaranteed Y availability is now an EXP-only benefit, when US Plat used to get it too. And that's without getting into the useful bits of Special Dividends, which have disappeared in the new program (and have that ominous "redeem early" warning in the email). So yeah, that was unexpected.

The suddenness of implementation is also unexpected. This late in the year, the correct thing would have been to announce that the switchover will be 2016 and will look at qualifying activity in 2015, since a lot of people have been spending a lot of money and doing a lot of flying in 2014 on the basis of a completely different advertised set of benefits.

The net result of this is that pmUS Silvers and Golds probably see a small net downgrade since they now compete with a much larger pool of elites for upgrades (back when I first started out with US and was Gold for about six months, I still had a pretty good upgrade rate -- good luck with that as an AA Plat!). The pmUS Silvers also get an extra helping of downgrade since they used to get Preferred seats for free on US but now are in the pay-for-MCE tier at AA.

The pmUS Platinums got screwed. The pmUS Platinums who had >100 segments in 2014 got flat-out royally hosed. There is no way to spin this with "you'll like the stickers, really" or "but it's preeeeeeeemium!" So please don't bother with that.

I'm already adjusting my flying in anticipation -- I can't prevent hitting 75k or probably even 80k PQM this year because stuff is already booked, but I can avoid wasting money on weird routings to try to hit 85k for the Special Dividends, since being able to gift US Silver -- now AA Gold -- is no longer useful, and with the pmUS upgrade system going away I won't get any use out of the upgrades on award tickets.

I'm also thinking about opening a betting pool on the date of first filing of a class-action suit to halt the implementation. FFs are famously litigious about even trivial things, and advertising one set of benefits for nearly 10 months, then yanking the rug out and saying "LOL NO" is not exactly a trivial thing. Would also be curious to know what AA legal's anticipated defense is, since I'm pretty sure a suit over this would have more than just a leg to stand on.

aero0729

i don't get it ......

taxicabnumber

Wait, won't they be EXP for the rest of 2015 when the programs combine? (They'd need 120 to requal)

aero0729

I don't expect to be upgraded on a free ticket unless I booked a first class mileage ticket. I am now seeing why PMUS first class stunk so bad. Yes a class action suit sounds like a great idea!! Have fun with that !! I can hear how til his may sound. Judge. I booked a coach ticket using miles and a year ago my airline would upgrade me free. But now they won't. Remember. Airlines can change benefits anytime.

ubernostrum

For someone who is solely a pmUS flyer, merged status is based on US Dividend Miles status at the time of the merge. A pmUS flyer who posts 90-119 segments and <100k PQM in 2014 will be US Platinum at merge, and so will become AA PLT.

Meanwhile, if that flyer had an evil twin who took exactly the same set of flights in 2014 but credited to AA instead, the evil twin would be EXP, because they'd meet pre-merge AA's EXP segment threshold.

See what I mean about the "royally hosed" bit?

Bait-and-switch is a real thing. And if someone relies in good faith on your promises to their (financial or otherwise) detriment, they can in fact haul your benefits-changing butt into court, yes, and "we said we reserved the right to change it" is not an ironclad guarantee that you'll win the case.

martin33

same. would love to hear the full saga someday.

That F terminal is indeed lousy, and we can bet pmUS will likely be the last major airline operation to give up turboprops, but when you do luck out with a CRJ700 you should have a good shot at getting into F given there are 9 seats.

not at the last minute, necessarily. depending on demand and supply, PLT's start clearing at 72 hours out and GLD's at 24 hours. AA has often followed a policy of saving the final two F seats for last-minute sale, however, and EXP's therefore have had a decent shot at snagging one if unsold, even when buying relatively last minute.

not wrong, in fact for 2012 and 2013 AAdvantage offered interim tier extras at 40k and 75k, just not as a standing program feature. in 2013 the 75K level even offered a SWU as one of the choices. It would be nice to revive those bonuses.

It's true they won't bump someone to sell you a Y fare unless you're EXP. Even so, if you have any scheduling flexibility and are willing to pay Y (or B), you get (under current rules at least) dibs within the PLT or GLD tier and the computer rebates the upgrade stickers if cleared.

Nope. Just look at the last major frequent flier suit ruling-- basically the verdict was that the federal airline law (the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978) trumps/pre-empts all of the usual state consumer and contract law duties regarding good faith dealing etc.

Dividend Miles has always been pretty ruthless in quick implementation of adverse changes anyway--- just recall the Baldanza-era try at removing status credit for all discount tickets, for instance.

That said, it's certainly distressing to see the latest sets of AAdvantage changes bypass prior longstanding practice of multi-month advance notice.

ubernostrum

This is still a lost benefit, though -- pre-merge, both US Plat and US CP got the guaranteed seat if you were willing to pay full fare. Post-merge, only CP/EXP get it. And the people who need that benefit tend to really need it.


Just to be absolutely clear: I am not saying someone will win a lawsuit. I am not saying someone will win a lawsuit. I am not saying someone will win a lawsuit. I am not saying someone will win a lawsuit. I am not saying someone will win a lawsuit. I am not saying someone will win a lawsuit. I am not saying someone will win a lawsuit. I am not saying someone will win a lawsuit. I am not saying someone will win a lawsuit. I am not saying someone will win a lawsuit.

(repeat on blackboard a number of times equal to your current mileage balance)

I am saying someone will inevitably file the lawsuit. And I'm saying it's not an automatic win for the airline -- re-read Ginsberg carefully, because you are misrepresenting it. The Supreme Court held that some of Ginsberg's claims were pre-empted (those related to state law/good faith and fair dealing), but not that his breach-of-contract claim was pre-empted. That claim was sent back down to the Ninth Circuit for some more billable hours of debate.

GUWonder

Given what DL/NW and CO/UA did in their transition from 3 elite tiers to 4 elite tiers (and being personally hit as a legacy top tier in DL and UA when those things hit), and given the impact on MMers there (in the lead to the transition and then in the transition): I too was dreading an AA transition to 4 elite tiers.

Of course this AA announcement for 2015 doesn't preclude a possible future AA transition to four elite tiers. Rather I suspect that USdbaAA will revisit this issue at some point and lay the groundwork for such a transition well before a launching of four elite tiers. Fortunately, we've been given an indefinite reprieve from such change -- long may it last.

Superguy

That's pretty myopic. First off, flying on AA in F isn't as hot as you make it out to be. The product was marginally better than US, but I didn't see anything orgasmic like you AA folks have made it out to be. Ice cream on flights? Ooo ... I'll take my $3 Ben and Jerry's cup, please.

That's not even including the fact that you have to fly on a 1981 S80 either.

Free upgrades on shorter flights is still a kick in the balls. Out of BWI, that leaves PHL and CLT. PHL is a 20 minute flight I'm lucky to even get a drink on most times, and to CLT I may get a refill.

US's route network was fine. I wasn't stuck having to go thru DFW for everywhere I wanted to go. For the times I went to Asia, there was an alliance member who could take me there where I could still get credit for it. AA had a horrid European network without BA and had a few Asian flights without JL or CX. Big deal.

Bottom line here is what works best for YOU may not work for someone else. Best is relative to what you need and what you value.

UA certainly has its problems and may or may not be an option for some.

They all devalue to some degrees - it's the general trend. Depending on your perspective, AA just devalued its program too. If you're already happy with AA's program, then there's largely no change for you. If you were happy with US's program, this is a kick in the balls.

I don't see why understanding that is so hard for AA folks.

Where is this orgasmic, much nicer F product you speak? I haven't seen it.

Double SWUs is nice, but losing the companion benefit really sucks.

Bottom line is we don't need you telling us how great the program is and how excited we should be for it if it doesn't meet one's needs.

Good for you. YMMV, and that doesn't make someone who disagrees with you wrong or a whiner.

Superguy

True to a point. You still have the hard tier breaks - what you're talking about is more of a sub-tier for tie-breaking purposes. A PP that has flown 0 miles this year will still have a higher priority than ALL golds and silvers but will be at the bottom of the heap within the PP tier. Similarly, someone who bought CP in the past would have priority over EVERYONE below CP even if they flew 99,999 miles that year.

A little OT - I think CP sounds much better than EXP.

Superguy

Yeah, because after it's been stated many times, there weren't that many elites on US. So that CLEARLY led to US's F being so awful.

Have you ever flown in US F?

You had to fly 85k to get that special dividend, and if you bought status you didn't get it. It was a nice perk, but one that probably wasn't used that much. I used it exactly once this past summer when we had to attend a funeral.

Try again.

rrgg

It seems like one counterargument will be that the DM program will cease to exist. So the benefits a DM member was promised did not change. They simply ended. So now a customer might argue for compensation for this, but AA will say it's been granted in the new program. They'll also say they warned customers that benefits would change via email and the merger web page.

IADCAflyer

What planet are you living on? I thought the product on longhaul US was fine. I got free upgrades on US. I got to fly on the A330 to San Juan and to London. The US product was perfectly fine.

I'm supposed to do cartwheels because I now get ice cream?

Not sure where you are getting this idea that US has no route network. It worked perfectly fine for me and US served about 4x more flights out of DCA to about 6x more cities than AA did. So, what am I missing? NRT? I could have done that on UA or ANA. About the only places where AA really had a network advantage were Texas and South America.

At the cost of having to pay for the upgrades for any flight.

They'll do that irrespective of any complaining. Just wait until 2016 when integration is done. I get the feeling nobody is going to be happy.

How exactly will the upgrade lists on the new AA be smaller? In both other mergers the lists got longer....Much longer. Indeed, I've seen only one AA flight out of the 20 or so I've taken this year go out with an empty seat. And that was a 7:00 am flight out of DCA where the back of the plane had 30 people in it.

martin33

automatic win or no, there's no sleep being lost at any frequent flyer program on this front we can be sure. what members ever won a breach of contract claim? after much larger changes than the current set, 13 years of AAdvantage litigation resulted only in the 2001 Wolens/Gutterman settlement notionally valued at $100 million but really just a bunch of scrip certificates for actual consumers. In comparison, last quarter's profits were $1.2 billion.