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IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread)

IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread)

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Old Oct 15, 16, 12:18 am   -   Wikipost
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IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation


NOTE: See AA Bump Rates; compensation for VDB / Voluntary Denied Boarding (consolidated) for VOLUNTARY denied boarding.

Passengers involuntarily denied boarding on AA are denied usually after calls for volunteers to accept vouchers (and occasionally variable other benefits), usually beginning at $200 or $300 but possibly going significantly higher, depending on passenger response. See more below, from AA Conditions of Carriage.

Link to AA Conditions of Carriage, "Oversales"

"DBC" (involuntarily) denied boarding compensation is governed in the USA by "14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily".

Link to CFR §250.5

CFR §250.2b Carriers to request volunteers for denied boarding.

(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A “volunteer” is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space. Any other passenger denied boarding is considered for purposes of this part to have been denied boarding involuntarily, even if that passenger accepts the denied boarding compensation.

(b) Every carrier shall advise each passenger solicited to volunteer for denied boarding, no later than the time the carrier solicits that passenger to volunteer, whether he or she is in danger of being involuntarily denied boarding and, if so, the compensation the carrier is obligated to pay if the passenger is involuntarily denied boarding. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward, the carrier may deny boarding to other passengers in accordance with its boarding priority rules.

14 CFR §250.9 Written explanation of denied boarding compensation and boarding priorities, and verbal notification of denied boarding compensation.

(a) Every carrier shall furnish passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from flights on which they hold confirmed reserved space immediately after the denied boarding occurs, a written statement explaining the terms, conditions, and limitations of denied boarding compensation, and describing the carriers' boarding priority rules and criteria. The carrier shall also furnish the statement to any person upon request at all airport ticket selling positions which are in the charge of a person employed exclusively by the carrier, or by it jointly with another person or persons, and at all boarding locations being used by the carrier.
Link to US Dept. of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division's "Fly-Rights - A Consumer Guide to Air Travel" section on Overbooking

In the European Union, EC261/2004 governs denied boarding compensation.

Link to EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints and AA (master thread)

On American Airlines, you are sometimes ineligible for IDB as allowed by the USDOT:

Code:
If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than 
there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will 
until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation 
willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not 
enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in 
accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events, 
American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also 
consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the 
AAdvantage® program.

If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of 
‘‘denied boarding compensation’’ from the airline unless:

 - You have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and 
reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation 
under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or

 - You are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or

You are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted 
for safety or operational reasons; or

 - On a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied 
boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or

 - You are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than
specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section 
for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or

 - The airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned 
to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the 
planned arrival time of your original flight.
The previous thread is http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html

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Old Oct 13, 14, 1:48 pm
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IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread)

Hi,

If you read http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...ation/7414701/ the facts are a little crazy.

The story claims that "When your flight is oversold and you're denied boarding, federal law requires an airline to pay you 200% of your one-way ticket price — up to $650 — if you're delayed by one hour, and 400% of your one-way ticket price — up to $1,300 — if you're delayed by two or more hours. But airlines don't always offer the full amount, instead dangling restrictive travel vouchers that expire after a year in front of their customers."

Has anyone tried asking these amounts from American? What are the names/numbers of the federal rules he refers to?

He's not referring to the $$ when asking for volunteers, rather than AA IDBed you.

Last edited by JDiver; Jan 31, 15 at 2:45 pm Reason: Restore original post title
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Old Oct 13, 14, 1:55 pm
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14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily.

Last edited by JDiver; Jan 1, 17 at 4:26 pm Reason: Underscoring
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Old Oct 13, 14, 2:12 pm
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Thanks so has anyone had the following exchange with a gate agent?

GA: Sorry sir, you've been IDBed.
You: Please, I can change, give me another chance.
GA: Sorry, here's a $500 voucher good for a year.
You: Ahaha. What about CFR 250.5 you owe be $1400 in real money not vouchers
GA: Damn, your the first one to know this. Look into this light ...

Seriously, has anyone tried it? It seems more reasonable than a $500 voucher, particularly if its the last flight of the day.

Also what does CFR actually mean, I couldn't find it in the document easily.
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Old Oct 13, 14, 2:18 pm
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IDB - Federal Rules. Anyone Tried This on AA?

CFR

Last edited by Microwave; Oct 14, 14 at 9:39 am Reason: LMGTFY is not friendly or welcoming
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Old Oct 13, 14, 2:19 pm
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Are planning on making a career out of IDB?
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Old Oct 13, 14, 2:32 pm
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"He's not referring to the $$ when asking for volunteers, rather than AA IDBed you."

Are you sure of that?
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Old Oct 13, 14, 2:33 pm
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Originally Posted by inpd View Post
...

Also what does CFR actually mean, I couldn't find it in the document easily.
Code of Federal Regulations
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Old Oct 13, 14, 2:37 pm
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Originally Posted by seawolf View Post
Hmmm. I know what it literally means, what I don't know is what it means in practice.

For example are CFRs just advisory? If they are disobeyed can we file a claim with DOT?

The difference b/w what something means in principle vs in practice is best explained with this example. I've been to small claims court where the arbitrator awarded me $x. But that didn't mean much since I had to get the other party to pay it (i.e. the Sheriff's office won't get involved).
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Old Oct 13, 14, 2:38 pm
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Originally Posted by Dallas49er View Post
Are planning on making a career out of IDB?
I hope not. But if knowing my rights means I don't get IDBed I'm willing to learn a little.
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Old Oct 13, 14, 2:44 pm
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The IDB payments are only due when a passenger is involuntarily denied boarding

The airline makes offers to passengers to voluntarily take another flight in exchange for items such as travel vouchers. Those that choose to take a later flight in exchange for vouchers have not been denied boarding; they have just chosen to take a later flight

Knowing your rights will not help you avoid being denied boarding involuntarily
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Old Oct 13, 14, 2:47 pm
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Can you say 'Conflict of interest?'

The service referenced in Elliott's article 'helps' passengers with claims on a fee basis. It's much to Airhelp's interest to lead people to believe they're being short-changed.

As for underpayment of IDB compensation under U.S. law, flyers have the DOT for enforcement, and courts available through individual suit or class-action.
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Old Oct 13, 14, 3:03 pm
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So I read through more of the document. It seems the author of the article is mixing things up a little.

The options are:

1) Take the $500 voucher and get a later flight or
2) Take the $1400 in cash payment and you have to pay for your own later flight.

So I'm not sure the flyer is being that short changed given most one way last minute flights are quite expensive.

But I'm curious. If you are IDBed does AA just pony up the $1400 in cash or do they still try to give you the voucher?

Has anyone been IDBed heard of this $1400 amount in cash?
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Old Oct 13, 14, 3:17 pm
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Originally Posted by inpd View Post
So I read through more of the document. It seems the author of the article is mixing things up a little.

The options are:

1) Take the $500 voucher and get a later flight or
2) Take the $1400 in cash payment and you have to pay for your own later flight.

So I'm not sure the flyer is being that short changed given most one way last minute flights are quite expensive.

But I'm curious. If you are IDBed does AA just pony up the $1400 in cash or do they still try to give you the voucher?

Has anyone been IDBed heard of this $1400 amount in cash?
Most airlines pony up the cash if they truly IDB someone, though there are occasional stories where GAs make a mistake and try to issue travel vouchers. True IDBs are rare, however, since they can usually get enough volunteers to take the travel vouchers.
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Old Oct 13, 14, 3:37 pm
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The options are:

1) Take the $500 voucher and get a later flight or
2) Take the $1400 in cash payment and you have to pay for your own later flight.
In practice, you don't get these options. The airline asks for volunteers, and ups the voucher amount until they have seats for everyone.

The price on (1) almost never approaches the DOT price on (2) because there is always someone who will take the voucher first.
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Old Oct 13, 14, 3:50 pm
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Originally Posted by inpd View Post
So I read through more of the document. It seems the author of the article is mixing things up a little.

The options are:

1) Take the $500 voucher and get a later flight or
2) Take the $1400 in cash payment and you have to pay for your own later flight.
You still don't understand. One gets to keep the IDB compensation and the original ticket which the carrier uses for a later flight (or refunds to the traveler if traveler wishes to make his own alternate arrangements).

http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/publi...tm#overbooking
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