Jan 31, 2015, 1:17 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
NOTE: See AA Bump Rates; compensation for VDB / Voluntary Denied Boarding (consolidated) for VOLUNTARY denied boarding.
Passengers involuntarily denied boarding on AA are denied usually after calls for volunteers to accept vouchers (and occasionally variable other benefits), usually beginning at $200 or $300 but possibly going significantly higher, depending on passenger response. See more below, from AA Conditions of Carriage.
Link to AA Conditions of Carriage, "Oversales"
"DBC" (involuntarily) denied boarding compensation is governed in the USA by "14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily".
Link to CFR §250.5
Link to US Dept. of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division's "Fly-Rights - A Consumer Guide to Air Travel" section on Overbooking
In the European Union, EC261/2004 governs denied boarding compensation.
Link to EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints and AA (master thread)
On American Airlines, you are sometimes ineligible for IDB as allowed by the USDOT:
The previous thread is http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html
Passengers involuntarily denied boarding on AA are denied usually after calls for volunteers to accept vouchers (and occasionally variable other benefits), usually beginning at $200 or $300 but possibly going significantly higher, depending on passenger response. See more below, from AA Conditions of Carriage.
Link to AA Conditions of Carriage, "Oversales"
"DBC" (involuntarily) denied boarding compensation is governed in the USA by "14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily".
Link to CFR §250.5
CFR §250.2b Carriers to request volunteers for denied boarding.
(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A “volunteer” is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space. Any other passenger denied boarding is considered for purposes of this part to have been denied boarding involuntarily, even if that passenger accepts the denied boarding compensation.
(b) Every carrier shall advise each passenger solicited to volunteer for denied boarding, no later than the time the carrier solicits that passenger to volunteer, whether he or she is in danger of being involuntarily denied boarding and, if so, the compensation the carrier is obligated to pay if the passenger is involuntarily denied boarding. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward, the carrier may deny boarding to other passengers in accordance with its boarding priority rules.
14 CFR §250.9 Written explanation of denied boarding compensation and boarding priorities, and verbal notification of denied boarding compensation.
(a) Every carrier shall furnish passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from flights on which they hold confirmed reserved space immediately after the denied boarding occurs, a written statement explaining the terms, conditions, and limitations of denied boarding compensation, and describing the carriers' boarding priority rules and criteria. The carrier shall also furnish the statement to any person upon request at all airport ticket selling positions which are in the charge of a person employed exclusively by the carrier, or by it jointly with another person or persons, and at all boarding locations being used by the carrier.
(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A “volunteer” is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space. Any other passenger denied boarding is considered for purposes of this part to have been denied boarding involuntarily, even if that passenger accepts the denied boarding compensation.
(b) Every carrier shall advise each passenger solicited to volunteer for denied boarding, no later than the time the carrier solicits that passenger to volunteer, whether he or she is in danger of being involuntarily denied boarding and, if so, the compensation the carrier is obligated to pay if the passenger is involuntarily denied boarding. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward, the carrier may deny boarding to other passengers in accordance with its boarding priority rules.
14 CFR §250.9 Written explanation of denied boarding compensation and boarding priorities, and verbal notification of denied boarding compensation.
(a) Every carrier shall furnish passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from flights on which they hold confirmed reserved space immediately after the denied boarding occurs, a written statement explaining the terms, conditions, and limitations of denied boarding compensation, and describing the carriers' boarding priority rules and criteria. The carrier shall also furnish the statement to any person upon request at all airport ticket selling positions which are in the charge of a person employed exclusively by the carrier, or by it jointly with another person or persons, and at all boarding locations being used by the carrier.
In the European Union, EC261/2004 governs denied boarding compensation.
Link to EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints and AA (master thread)
On American Airlines, you are sometimes ineligible for IDB as allowed by the USDOT:
Code:
If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than
there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will
until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation
willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not
enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in
accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events,
American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also
consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the
AAdvantage® program.
If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of
‘‘denied boarding compensation’’ from the airline unless:
- You have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and
reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation
under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or
- You are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
You are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted
for safety or operational reasons; or
- On a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied
boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
- You are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than
specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section
for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
- The airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned
to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the
planned arrival time of your original flight.
IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread)
Feb 7, 2020, 6:04 pm
#241
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,023
AA does not fly MYR-CHS. Were these some sort of charter flights? It doesn't matter if they were still boarding when they got there. The timestamp part is the only critical piece of information. They need to be at departure gate 15 minutes prior to scheduled departure or it is not IDB as AA is entitled to offload them at that point and does not have to provide IDB compensation. Note that it is original scheduled departure, not actual departure.
Last edited by xliioper; Feb 7, 2020 at 6:31 pm
Oct 9, 2021, 11:38 pm
#242
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, Hilton DMD, Hyatt Glob, Hertz PC
Posts: 267
Are there restrictions on telling pax incorrect information to get them to volunteer vs being IDB'd / are those enforced?
All I'm seeing is this: "DOT requires airlines to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets bumped."
A friend told me today he was bumped off BOS-DFW several months ago.
He paid around $300 for the flight.
He was not assigned a seat at check-in, nor at any point before departure.
They had called for volunteers for $900, but got no takers before final boarding.
Friend was told that all pax had shown up for the flight, and that therefore he would have to be bumped. He was then presented with these two options:
Option 1: (This was pitched as a "we can make this easy" option.) He volunteers for the voucher of $900, and is put on the next flight (>2 hrs later.)
Option 2: He does NOT volunteer, and is put on the later flight anyway, with NO compensation.
Not being familiar with the rules of IDB, and in the heat of the moment, he chose option 1.
We're trying to determine how he should pursue this. I suggested writing a very brief email to customer care, saying that he was not given correct information (per the DOT requirements) on the compensation that would be issued had he not volunteered, and would not had done so otherwise.
I wonder though, should he just take this straight to the DOT to not risk AA having a chance to get their story straight?
I told him I figured this would be a pretty easy win, considering that he was denied the opportunity to both NOT volunteer AND board the flight, but I've been wrong before!
All I'm seeing is this: "DOT requires airlines to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets bumped."
A friend told me today he was bumped off BOS-DFW several months ago.
He paid around $300 for the flight.
He was not assigned a seat at check-in, nor at any point before departure.
They had called for volunteers for $900, but got no takers before final boarding.
Friend was told that all pax had shown up for the flight, and that therefore he would have to be bumped. He was then presented with these two options:
Option 1: (This was pitched as a "we can make this easy" option.) He volunteers for the voucher of $900, and is put on the next flight (>2 hrs later.)
Option 2: He does NOT volunteer, and is put on the later flight anyway, with NO compensation.
Not being familiar with the rules of IDB, and in the heat of the moment, he chose option 1.
We're trying to determine how he should pursue this. I suggested writing a very brief email to customer care, saying that he was not given correct information (per the DOT requirements) on the compensation that would be issued had he not volunteered, and would not had done so otherwise.
I wonder though, should he just take this straight to the DOT to not risk AA having a chance to get their story straight?
I told him I figured this would be a pretty easy win, considering that he was denied the opportunity to both NOT volunteer AND board the flight, but I've been wrong before!
Oct 10, 2021, 2:14 pm
#243
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Orange County, CA, USA
Programs: AA (Life Plat), Marriott (Life Titanium) and every other US program
Posts: 6,411
Are there restrictions on telling pax incorrect information to get them to volunteer vs being IDB'd / are those enforced?
All I'm seeing is this: "DOT requires airlines to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets bumped."
A friend told me today he was bumped off BOS-DFW several months ago.
He paid around $300 for the flight.
He was not assigned a seat at check-in, nor at any point before departure.
They had called for volunteers for $900, but got no takers before final boarding.
Friend was told that all pax had shown up for the flight, and that therefore he would have to be bumped. He was then presented with these two options:
Option 1: (This was pitched as a "we can make this easy" option.) He volunteers for the voucher of $900, and is put on the next flight (>2 hrs later.)
Option 2: He does NOT volunteer, and is put on the later flight anyway, with NO compensation.
Not being familiar with the rules of IDB, and in the heat of the moment, he chose option 1.
We're trying to determine how he should pursue this. I suggested writing a very brief email to customer care, saying that he was not given correct information (per the DOT requirements) on the compensation that would be issued had he not volunteered, and would not had done so otherwise.
I wonder though, should he just take this straight to the DOT to not risk AA having a chance to get their story straight?
I told him I figured this would be a pretty easy win, considering that he was denied the opportunity to both NOT volunteer AND board the flight, but I've been wrong before!
All I'm seeing is this: "DOT requires airlines to give all passengers who are bumped involuntarily a written statement describing their rights and explaining how the carrier decides who gets bumped."
A friend told me today he was bumped off BOS-DFW several months ago.
He paid around $300 for the flight.
He was not assigned a seat at check-in, nor at any point before departure.
They had called for volunteers for $900, but got no takers before final boarding.
Friend was told that all pax had shown up for the flight, and that therefore he would have to be bumped. He was then presented with these two options:
Option 1: (This was pitched as a "we can make this easy" option.) He volunteers for the voucher of $900, and is put on the next flight (>2 hrs later.)
Option 2: He does NOT volunteer, and is put on the later flight anyway, with NO compensation.
Not being familiar with the rules of IDB, and in the heat of the moment, he chose option 1.
We're trying to determine how he should pursue this. I suggested writing a very brief email to customer care, saying that he was not given correct information (per the DOT requirements) on the compensation that would be issued had he not volunteered, and would not had done so otherwise.
I wonder though, should he just take this straight to the DOT to not risk AA having a chance to get their story straight?
I told him I figured this would be a pretty easy win, considering that he was denied the opportunity to both NOT volunteer AND board the flight, but I've been wrong before!
Oct 10, 2021, 4:22 pm
#245
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Orange County, CA, USA
Programs: AA (Life Plat), Marriott (Life Titanium) and every other US program
Posts: 6,411
Oct 10, 2021, 4:26 pm
#246
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: USA
Programs: American Airlines (Executive Platinum), Hyatt (Globalist), Hilton (Diamond), IHG (Diamond)
Posts: 2,917
Thanks. After two years of almost no flying, and with VDB and IDB reports here way down from 2019, I, too, am a little fuzzy on the rules.
From a quick refresher, no seat assignment apparently puts such people at the top of the list for IDB.
There are situations where one can be denied boarding without comp — weight/balance, etc. — so we’d probably need more details from the OP before knowing if the GA lied to the friend or not.
From a quick refresher, no seat assignment apparently puts such people at the top of the list for IDB.
There are situations where one can be denied boarding without comp — weight/balance, etc. — so we’d probably need more details from the OP before knowing if the GA lied to the friend or not.
Oct 10, 2021, 9:11 pm
#247
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, Hilton DMD, Hyatt Glob, Hertz PC
Posts: 267
Friend is not as much of an adicionado as us, but he did say the announcement was specifically "oversold," not "overweight."
he did not know whether an equipment change was involved, but it wasn't mentioned as a reason for non-compensation.
he did not know whether an equipment change was involved, but it wasn't mentioned as a reason for non-compensation.
Oct 10, 2021, 9:21 pm
#248
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: USA
Programs: American Airlines (Executive Platinum), Hyatt (Globalist), Hilton (Diamond), IHG (Diamond)
Posts: 2,917
Note that if flying A-B-C, A-B is oversold, and you’re rebooked on a direct flight A-C, it’s possible for no comp to be due depending on the arrival time in C. Was your friend flying direct BOS-DFW or was there a layover?
Oct 11, 2021, 7:45 am
#250
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: USA
Programs: American Airlines (Executive Platinum), Hyatt (Globalist), Hilton (Diamond), IHG (Diamond)
Posts: 2,917
Oct 11, 2021, 12:03 pm
#252
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: USA
Programs: American Airlines (Executive Platinum), Hyatt (Globalist), Hilton (Diamond), IHG (Diamond)
Posts: 2,917
If that’s the case, then it seems the 400% should apply, but it seems unlikely the GA would have lied about it to save AA a relative pittance. Most people here would consider the $900 voucher to be a big win for a two-hour delay. If this happened a few days ago, it might be worth a letter, but now it’s a months-old he said, she said and unlikely to be worth the time.
Was this a one-way ticket for $300, a round-trip ticket for $300, or a round-trip for $600 that you pro-rated to $300 for the segments in question? Note that IDB comp is a percentage of the one-way fare, not total fare. The $900 might have been more than what was technically due.
Was this a one-way ticket for $300, a round-trip ticket for $300, or a round-trip for $600 that you pro-rated to $300 for the segments in question? Note that IDB comp is a percentage of the one-way fare, not total fare. The $900 might have been more than what was technically due.
Oct 11, 2021, 3:51 pm
#253
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: BOS
Programs: AA EXP, Hilton DMD, Hyatt Glob, Hertz PC
Posts: 267
Was this a one-way ticket for $300, a round-trip ticket for $300, or a round-trip for $600 that you pro-rated to $300 for the segments in question? Note that IDB comp is a percentage of the one-way fare, not total fare. The $900 might have been more than what was technically due.
I personally would have probably jumped at the voucher as a volunteer for a ~2hr delay, unless I really had somewhere to be. But I fly often enough that the restrictions of the voucher (having to go book tickets in person) don't bother me and it's nice that the taxes and fees get dropped.
But for him, if the compensation owed was indeed $1200 cash vs a $900 voucher, the former would have been significantly preferable.
Last edited by meechyathere; Oct 11, 2021 at 4:00 pm
Oct 11, 2021, 4:08 pm
#254
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: USA
Programs: American Airlines (Executive Platinum), Hyatt (Globalist), Hilton (Diamond), IHG (Diamond)
Posts: 2,917
It was $300 for the one-way (separate return), but what I'm starting to wonder is if the taxes and fees don't apply. That would probably land it in the almost-voucher-equivalent zone.
I personally would have probably jumped at the voucher as a volunteer for a ~2hr delay, unless I really had somewhere to be. But I fly often enough that the restrictions of the voucher (having to go book tickets in person) don't bother me and it's nice that the taxes and fees get dropped.
But for him, if the compensation owed was indeed $1200 cash vs a $900 voucher, the former would have been significantly preferable.
I personally would have probably jumped at the voucher as a volunteer for a ~2hr delay, unless I really had somewhere to be. But I fly often enough that the restrictions of the voucher (having to go book tickets in person) don't bother me and it's nice that the taxes and fees get dropped.
But for him, if the compensation owed was indeed $1200 cash vs a $900 voucher, the former would have been significantly preferable.
The thing that’s odd is the “agree to $900 or you’ll get $0” part. The only times I can think of where that would apply would be an equipment change to a smaller aircraft or needing to remove pax due to weight/balance, in which case IDB comp isn’t required. My guess is it was the former.
Nov 21, 2021, 3:22 pm
#255
Join Date: May 2005
Location: FL
Programs: DL/PM SM/AMEX/Plat HH/Gold Marriott/Plat Starwood/Plat
Posts: 140
Is this a IDB situation if not what is my recourse:
My ORD - AUH segment of AA award got cancelled. received an email from Etihad saying the flight EY150 was cancelled. In fact it was just a timing change of 3 hrs. same FL number & equipment.
They are trying to re-book but does not look good.
My ORD - AUH segment of AA award got cancelled. received an email from Etihad saying the flight EY150 was cancelled. In fact it was just a timing change of 3 hrs. same FL number & equipment.
They are trying to re-book but does not look good.