Jan 31, 2015, 1:17 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
NOTE: See AA Bump Rates; compensation for VDB / Voluntary Denied Boarding (consolidated) for VOLUNTARY denied boarding.
Passengers involuntarily denied boarding on AA are denied usually after calls for volunteers to accept vouchers (and occasionally variable other benefits), usually beginning at $200 or $300 but possibly going significantly higher, depending on passenger response. See more below, from AA Conditions of Carriage.
Link to AA Conditions of Carriage, "Oversales"
"DBC" (involuntarily) denied boarding compensation is governed in the USA by "14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily".
Link to CFR §250.5
Link to US Dept. of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division's "Fly-Rights - A Consumer Guide to Air Travel" section on Overbooking
In the European Union, EC261/2004 governs denied boarding compensation.
Link to EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints and AA (master thread)
On American Airlines, you are sometimes ineligible for IDB as allowed by the USDOT:
The previous thread is http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html
Passengers involuntarily denied boarding on AA are denied usually after calls for volunteers to accept vouchers (and occasionally variable other benefits), usually beginning at $200 or $300 but possibly going significantly higher, depending on passenger response. See more below, from AA Conditions of Carriage.
Link to AA Conditions of Carriage, "Oversales"
"DBC" (involuntarily) denied boarding compensation is governed in the USA by "14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily".
Link to CFR §250.5
CFR §250.2b Carriers to request volunteers for denied boarding.
(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A “volunteer” is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space. Any other passenger denied boarding is considered for purposes of this part to have been denied boarding involuntarily, even if that passenger accepts the denied boarding compensation.
(b) Every carrier shall advise each passenger solicited to volunteer for denied boarding, no later than the time the carrier solicits that passenger to volunteer, whether he or she is in danger of being involuntarily denied boarding and, if so, the compensation the carrier is obligated to pay if the passenger is involuntarily denied boarding. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward, the carrier may deny boarding to other passengers in accordance with its boarding priority rules.
14 CFR §250.9 Written explanation of denied boarding compensation and boarding priorities, and verbal notification of denied boarding compensation.
(a) Every carrier shall furnish passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from flights on which they hold confirmed reserved space immediately after the denied boarding occurs, a written statement explaining the terms, conditions, and limitations of denied boarding compensation, and describing the carriers' boarding priority rules and criteria. The carrier shall also furnish the statement to any person upon request at all airport ticket selling positions which are in the charge of a person employed exclusively by the carrier, or by it jointly with another person or persons, and at all boarding locations being used by the carrier.
(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A “volunteer” is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space. Any other passenger denied boarding is considered for purposes of this part to have been denied boarding involuntarily, even if that passenger accepts the denied boarding compensation.
(b) Every carrier shall advise each passenger solicited to volunteer for denied boarding, no later than the time the carrier solicits that passenger to volunteer, whether he or she is in danger of being involuntarily denied boarding and, if so, the compensation the carrier is obligated to pay if the passenger is involuntarily denied boarding. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward, the carrier may deny boarding to other passengers in accordance with its boarding priority rules.
14 CFR §250.9 Written explanation of denied boarding compensation and boarding priorities, and verbal notification of denied boarding compensation.
(a) Every carrier shall furnish passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from flights on which they hold confirmed reserved space immediately after the denied boarding occurs, a written statement explaining the terms, conditions, and limitations of denied boarding compensation, and describing the carriers' boarding priority rules and criteria. The carrier shall also furnish the statement to any person upon request at all airport ticket selling positions which are in the charge of a person employed exclusively by the carrier, or by it jointly with another person or persons, and at all boarding locations being used by the carrier.
In the European Union, EC261/2004 governs denied boarding compensation.
Link to EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints and AA (master thread)
On American Airlines, you are sometimes ineligible for IDB as allowed by the USDOT:
Code:
If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than
there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will
until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation
willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not
enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in
accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events,
American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also
consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the
AAdvantage® program.
If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of
‘‘denied boarding compensation’’ from the airline unless:
- You have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and
reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation
under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or
- You are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
You are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted
for safety or operational reasons; or
- On a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied
boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
- You are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than
specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section
for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
- The airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned
to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the
planned arrival time of your original flight.
IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread)
Jul 16, 2019, 8:35 am
#226
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Jul 16, 2019, 8:53 am
#227
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: USA
Programs: Chase Sapphire Reserve, WFBF
Posts: 1,573
Was IDB when flying a Economy saver AA ticket from CLT->MSP, last flight of the night. I received confirmation that it was IDB in a letter they gave me (I requested the letter because I was going to miss my report date/time for Army Duty and even though it wasn’t my fault, I got a pretty gnarly chewing :/ ) but the airport staff were adamant that I was really only entitled to like ~$150 in vouchers, and they wanted me to sign something; however, I politely declined and would like to pursue IDB compensation, assuming the amount would be worth it.
How is this amount calculated for award tix?
I find the reg to be difficult to understand
How is this amount calculated for award tix?
I find the reg to be difficult to understand
Originally Posted by DOT
If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
Good luck.
Jul 16, 2019, 9:15 am
#228
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
Not sure who to complain to or escalate this situation with - have already sent an email to Helen/Sean (found their emails on elliott . org ) about 4 days ago but have not received any response. We expect AA to reimburse our DL flights and also compensation for the IDB as well as discrimination - is this reasonable? What should I expect for the compensation? Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
Even though it's possible that race played a factor here, I wouldn't mention it. That will complicate a fairly straightforward complaint and especially since the initial problem of double-assigning the seats seems likely to have happened without the GA being able to see you, it's at least unlikely to have been the initial cause of the problem.
Jul 16, 2019, 4:54 pm
#229
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Texas
Programs: Hyatt Glob (Barely); Marriott Plat Life; AA Up and Down Now Plat; Hilton, UA, BA, HA Peasant
Posts: 2,667
We expect AA to reimburse our DL flights and also compensation for the IDB
I'll accept your scenario of events completely at face value. But in your Point 9) you indicate the GA stated you had not "checked in". I would translate that to say they considered you a "no answer". I can think of several scenarios how that could accidentally happen, all of which revolve around I would never check in so close to time for a flight when I didn't already have an assigned seat, and I still never trust an electronic boarding pass. (When you start playing the "my seat" game nothing beats paper).
Being considered "no answer" or "running late", even if not accurate, would explain why they did not present you with IDB Comp at the gate.
If there is not a timestamp from scanning your phone in the AA system you may receive pushback on that point. But the same scenario should indicate if you were scanned onto the plane and then accidentally deleted from the manifest.
Had you posted the day after the flight there are people on the board who could probably shed light on other oversolds or stand-by's being cleared. (That could be anything from you got completely missed, high status high spend passengers got promoted, must-travel crew got put on, or most likly just jumpseat riders).
Last edited by jayer; Jul 16, 2019 at 7:29 pm
Oct 20, 2019, 8:58 pm
#230
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: AA Fortress, no MRs for me!
Programs: AA Exec Plat (LT Gold), SPG Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, National Executive Elite
Posts: 309
Helping my cousin
Here is the short version of story:
My cousin and his wife fly from ICN - DFW - SJC. The DFW - SJC was the next day after arriving into DFW. This was an award ticket.
When they got to the airport for DFW - SJC, they took an VDB and new flight was the next day. They thought "score" for getting some cash for the VDB. Since in DFW they were staying with family so no out of pocket cost for lodging.
On the finaly flight day they get to DFW, check bags, and get to the gate. At the gate they are told you are not on the flight, you are on the next to SFO. No vouchers, no meal coupons, nada. Thus they got the IDB and now on on a 3+ hour delay into SFO. . Their bags did go to SJC, and AA was to setup transportation (van or such) from SFO-SJC, which never happened after a 90 min wait after arrival at SFO. Thus they got their own Uber/Lyft to SJC to get luggage then to their home.
As I was helping them understand what I knew of the rules, I told them to go to CS desk and complain and get details. That is where they learned of the issue with the ticket. With the VBD someone did not close our that they got the VBD so it showed two tickets and the gate agent did not understand what was wrong on the 2nd attempt at DFW - SJC and cancelled their tickets, then IDB them and told them to go to the SFO gate.
My cousin wrote an email to AA CS and was told that they would be compensated $112 / person as someone in Y has a ticket for $28 USD from DFW - SJC. This was offer #1 which they refused as the number did not seem correct. AA then checked and 'accounting told them' that this is correct. AA also offered an additional $150 voucher due to the transportation issue to get bags at SJC. The I
Maybe it is lack of trust, and maybe it is earned by AA, but the $28 ticket does not smell right. Any ideas on best next plan? Accept? Push to DOT? What say you FT?
My cousin and his wife fly from ICN - DFW - SJC. The DFW - SJC was the next day after arriving into DFW. This was an award ticket.
When they got to the airport for DFW - SJC, they took an VDB and new flight was the next day. They thought "score" for getting some cash for the VDB. Since in DFW they were staying with family so no out of pocket cost for lodging.
On the finaly flight day they get to DFW, check bags, and get to the gate. At the gate they are told you are not on the flight, you are on the next to SFO. No vouchers, no meal coupons, nada. Thus they got the IDB and now on on a 3+ hour delay into SFO. . Their bags did go to SJC, and AA was to setup transportation (van or such) from SFO-SJC, which never happened after a 90 min wait after arrival at SFO. Thus they got their own Uber/Lyft to SJC to get luggage then to their home.
As I was helping them understand what I knew of the rules, I told them to go to CS desk and complain and get details. That is where they learned of the issue with the ticket. With the VBD someone did not close our that they got the VBD so it showed two tickets and the gate agent did not understand what was wrong on the 2nd attempt at DFW - SJC and cancelled their tickets, then IDB them and told them to go to the SFO gate.
My cousin wrote an email to AA CS and was told that they would be compensated $112 / person as someone in Y has a ticket for $28 USD from DFW - SJC. This was offer #1 which they refused as the number did not seem correct. AA then checked and 'accounting told them' that this is correct. AA also offered an additional $150 voucher due to the transportation issue to get bags at SJC. The I
Maybe it is lack of trust, and maybe it is earned by AA, but the $28 ticket does not smell right. Any ideas on best next plan? Accept? Push to DOT? What say you FT?
Oct 21, 2019, 5:52 am
#231
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
Here is the short version of story:
My cousin and his wife fly from ICN - DFW - SJC. The DFW - SJC was the next day after arriving into DFW. This was an award ticket.
When they got to the airport for DFW - SJC, they took an VDB and new flight was the next day. They thought "score" for getting some cash for the VDB. Since in DFW they were staying with family so no out of pocket cost for lodging.
On the finaly flight day they get to DFW, check bags, and get to the gate. At the gate they are told you are not on the flight, you are on the next to SFO. No vouchers, no meal coupons, nada. Thus they got the IDB and now on on a 3+ hour delay into SFO. . Their bags did go to SJC, and AA was to setup transportation (van or such) from SFO-SJC, which never happened after a 90 min wait after arrival at SFO. Thus they got their own Uber/Lyft to SJC to get luggage then to their home.
As I was helping them understand what I knew of the rules, I told them to go to CS desk and complain and get details. That is where they learned of the issue with the ticket. With the VBD someone did not close our that they got the VBD so it showed two tickets and the gate agent did not understand what was wrong on the 2nd attempt at DFW - SJC and cancelled their tickets, then IDB them and told them to go to the SFO gate.
My cousin wrote an email to AA CS and was told that they would be compensated $112 / person as someone in Y has a ticket for $28 USD from DFW - SJC. This was offer #1 which they refused as the number did not seem correct. AA then checked and 'accounting told them' that this is correct. AA also offered an additional $150 voucher due to the transportation issue to get bags at SJC. The I
Maybe it is lack of trust, and maybe it is earned by AA, but the $28 ticket does not smell right. Any ideas on best next plan? Accept? Push to DOT? What say you FT?
My cousin and his wife fly from ICN - DFW - SJC. The DFW - SJC was the next day after arriving into DFW. This was an award ticket.
When they got to the airport for DFW - SJC, they took an VDB and new flight was the next day. They thought "score" for getting some cash for the VDB. Since in DFW they were staying with family so no out of pocket cost for lodging.
On the finaly flight day they get to DFW, check bags, and get to the gate. At the gate they are told you are not on the flight, you are on the next to SFO. No vouchers, no meal coupons, nada. Thus they got the IDB and now on on a 3+ hour delay into SFO. . Their bags did go to SJC, and AA was to setup transportation (van or such) from SFO-SJC, which never happened after a 90 min wait after arrival at SFO. Thus they got their own Uber/Lyft to SJC to get luggage then to their home.
As I was helping them understand what I knew of the rules, I told them to go to CS desk and complain and get details. That is where they learned of the issue with the ticket. With the VBD someone did not close our that they got the VBD so it showed two tickets and the gate agent did not understand what was wrong on the 2nd attempt at DFW - SJC and cancelled their tickets, then IDB them and told them to go to the SFO gate.
My cousin wrote an email to AA CS and was told that they would be compensated $112 / person as someone in Y has a ticket for $28 USD from DFW - SJC. This was offer #1 which they refused as the number did not seem correct. AA then checked and 'accounting told them' that this is correct. AA also offered an additional $150 voucher due to the transportation issue to get bags at SJC. The I
Maybe it is lack of trust, and maybe it is earned by AA, but the $28 ticket does not smell right. Any ideas on best next plan? Accept? Push to DOT? What say you FT?
Oct 21, 2019, 9:10 am
#232
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: AA Fortress, no MRs for me!
Programs: AA Exec Plat (LT Gold), SPG Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, National Executive Elite
Posts: 309
The rules say on IDB you get 4x the lowest fair paid if delay is more than 3 hours, hence that was the calculation.
Oct 21, 2019, 9:36 am
#233
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Location: DCA
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Posts: 50,262
AA is acknowledging IDB and federal law provides that IDB is 400% of the fare paid up to a maximum of $1,350. In the case of a "zero dollar fare" (the term used for award tickets), the IDB is based on 400% of the lowest fare paid on that flight.
If someone had a $28 segment fare, the IDB for OP's cousin would be 400% of $28 or $112.
AA is correct and OP's cousin is due the $112 (in cash or equivalent).
VDB would be whatever the passenger and AA agree to. But, that isn't this case.
Oct 21, 2019, 10:40 am
#234
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: AA Fortress, no MRs for me!
Programs: AA Exec Plat (LT Gold), SPG Platinum, Hyatt Globalist, National Executive Elite
Posts: 309
Thanks. That was my understanding and I might have transposed IDB vs. VDB in my original posting.
Am I missing something else, or another avenue. It is still shocking to only see a $28 fare/
Am I missing something else, or another avenue. It is still shocking to only see a $28 fare/
Dec 12, 2019, 12:55 pm
#236
Join Date: Jul 2015
Programs: HH Diamond, HGVC, WN RR, National Exec, Avis Preferred
Posts: 1,055
My son (flying from TPA) and a friend (flying from PWM) had a connection in CLT last week on their way to meeting me at CHS. We were then supposed to drive to Myrtle Beach. They only had a 40 min connection that I was crossing fingers that they and their bags would make. When the friend got to the gate he heard my son being paged and his own name being mispronounced. He began a discussion with the agent about what the issue was and deferred making any decisions what to do until my son arrived, which was a few minutes later. I'm not sure about what they were told as what the issue was, but they were first offered a flight to Savannah and ground transport to CHS. When they told the agent the were supposed to meet me in CHS and then drive to MYR, they were offered a flight to MYR instead. They took the offer and made it to MYR about the same time had they flown to CHS and rode with me to MYR. BTW they were also both given a $1200 voucher. Not a bad way to start out a vacation.
Last edited by birdiedouble; Dec 12, 2019 at 6:02 pm
Feb 7, 2020, 9:41 am
#238
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: San Francisco
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Group of 4 Vietnam Vets (Navy) returning from reunion at MYR to IAD through CHS were IDB'ed at CHS. Incoming flight was late but flight into IAD was still boarding. There were told they were "locked out", GA were careful not to use the term "denied boarding". Ended up waiting at CHS for nearly 6 hours for next flight out. AA offered $100 compensation and has said it was not an IDB that they were late (less than 15 mins until departure) which they deny. Things actually got a little bit ugly as they insisted on boarding with the remaining passengers at the gate but eventually backed off. I figure they are owed twice that according to the stated federal guidelines/rules in the above wiki. All are appealing now. Is this unreasonable?
Feb 7, 2020, 1:48 pm
#239
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
Group of 4 Vietnam Vets (Navy) returning from reunion at MYR to IAD through CHS were IDB'ed at CHS. Incoming flight was late but flight into IAD was still boarding. There were told they were "locked out", GA were careful not to use the term "denied boarding". Ended up waiting at CHS for nearly 6 hours for next flight out. AA offered $100 compensation and has said it was not an IDB that they were late (less than 15 mins until departure) which they deny. Things actually got a little bit ugly as they insisted on boarding with the remaining passengers at the gate but eventually backed off. I figure they are owed twice that according to the stated federal guidelines/rules in the above wiki. All are appealing now. Is this unreasonable?
It also depends on whether the flight was oversold (versus standby passengers being put in their place).
If both of the above are true, they're owed IDB compensation. Whether that is $100 or $200 or any other amount depends on how much their tickets cost.
Feb 7, 2020, 5:51 pm
#240
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: San Francisco
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It depends on whether they were actually at the gate 15 minutes in advance or not. Ideally they'd have some evidence of this. (There's actually some dispute as to whether they need to be there 10 or 15 minutes in advance, but this isn't relevant if they were really there 15+ minutes in advance.)(
It also depends on whether the flight was oversold (versus standby passengers being put in their place).
If both of the above are true, they're owed IDB compensation. Whether that is $100 or $200 or any other amount depends on how much their tickets cost.
It also depends on whether the flight was oversold (versus standby passengers being put in their place).
If both of the above are true, they're owed IDB compensation. Whether that is $100 or $200 or any other amount depends on how much their tickets cost.
