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IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread)

IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread)

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Old Feb 25, 19, 1:28 pm   -   Wikipost
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IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation


NOTE: See AA Bump Rates; compensation for VDB / Voluntary Denied Boarding (consolidated) for VOLUNTARY denied boarding.

Passengers involuntarily denied boarding on AA are denied usually after calls for volunteers to accept vouchers (and occasionally variable other benefits), usually beginning at $200 or $300 but possibly going significantly higher, depending on passenger response. See more below, from AA Conditions of Carriage.

Link to AA Conditions of Carriage, "Oversales"

"DBC" (involuntarily) denied boarding compensation is governed in the USA by "14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily".

Link to CFR §250.5

CFR §250.2b Carriers to request volunteers for denied boarding.

(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A “volunteer” is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space. Any other passenger denied boarding is considered for purposes of this part to have been denied boarding involuntarily, even if that passenger accepts the denied boarding compensation.

(b) Every carrier shall advise each passenger solicited to volunteer for denied boarding, no later than the time the carrier solicits that passenger to volunteer, whether he or she is in danger of being involuntarily denied boarding and, if so, the compensation the carrier is obligated to pay if the passenger is involuntarily denied boarding. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward, the carrier may deny boarding to other passengers in accordance with its boarding priority rules.

14 CFR §250.9 Written explanation of denied boarding compensation and boarding priorities, and verbal notification of denied boarding compensation.

(a) Every carrier shall furnish passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from flights on which they hold confirmed reserved space immediately after the denied boarding occurs, a written statement explaining the terms, conditions, and limitations of denied boarding compensation, and describing the carriers' boarding priority rules and criteria. The carrier shall also furnish the statement to any person upon request at all airport ticket selling positions which are in the charge of a person employed exclusively by the carrier, or by it jointly with another person or persons, and at all boarding locations being used by the carrier.
Link to US Dept. of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division's "Fly-Rights - A Consumer Guide to Air Travel" section on Overbooking

In the European Union, EC261/2004 governs denied boarding compensation.

Link to EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints and AA (master thread)

On American Airlines, you are sometimes ineligible for IDB as allowed by the USDOT:

Code:
If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than 
 there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will 
 until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation 
 willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not 
 enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in 
 accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events, 
 American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also 
 consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the 
 AAdvantage® program.
 
 If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of 
 ‘‘denied boarding compensation’’ from the airline unless:
 
 - You have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and 
 reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation 
 under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or
 
 - You are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
 
 You are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted 
 for safety or operational reasons; or
 
 - On a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied 
 boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
 
 - You are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than
 specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section 
 for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
 
 - The airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned 
 to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the 
 planned arrival time of your original flight.
The previous thread is http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html

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Old Feb 25, 19, 10:29 am
  #181  
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Call and ask. Under U.S. regulation they're obligated to tell you - but not by how many passengers.

IDB is really now much more rare than people think. See page #37 . https://www.transportation.gov/sites...-2019-atcr.pdf

2,869 IDBs in 3Q18 among reporting carriers with 216 million passengers.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 10:51 am
  #182  
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OP - You will get better information with the date, departure, arrival, and flight number.

But, to be frank, overbooking information is not particularly useful as it rarely results in an oversale. To put this in context, for 2018-Q1, AA boarded over 35 Million passengers and involuntarily denied boarding to 483 passengers. Of those, 177 were due to the aircraft being downsized. Taking all reasons, this amounts to 0.001% (1/1000 th of 1%) of passengers..

People worry about this, but it tends to be less likely a reason for them not to travel than getting sick or injured and being unable to travel.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 10:58 am
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@Often1 AA3126 YUL-ORD 2 March 17h18
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Old Feb 25, 19, 11:02 am
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Originally Posted by OSSYULYYZ View Post
@Often1 AA3126 YUL-ORD 2 March 17h18
Check closer to the day of departure, if you see the flight isn't available for sale and goes to Y0/J0 there's a good chance it's oversold.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 11:04 am
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Originally Posted by donotblink View Post
Check closer to the day of departure, if you see the flight isn't available for sale and goes to Y0/J0 there's a good chance it's oversold.
Yea I checked ExpertFlyer and the data given off the Change Seats menu, and they do not match. This flight is not available for sale on Google Flights. How do I check Y0/J0?
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Old Feb 25, 19, 11:04 am
  #186  
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Even if your flight is overbooked and they need to call for volunteers there's a good chance of volunteers not needed in the end. Therefore, as noted worrying about an IVB is liking obsessing over whether you or your Uber will have a flat tire on the way to the airport.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 11:08 am
  #187  
 
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Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge View Post
Even if your flight is overbooked and they need to call for volunteers there's a good chance of volunteers not needed in the end. Therefore, as noted worrying about an IVB is liking obsessing over whether you or your Uber will have a flat tire on the way to the airport.
Interesting. I was IDB'd on several flights in 2014 and 2015. In fact, 90% of the flights that I booked. Only once when I booked through Delta did I get Compensation. I have never flown American Airlines in recent years, and that is why I am obsessed (not sure if this is the best term in this case) with IDBs.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 11:13 am
  #188  
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Originally Posted by OSSYULYYZ View Post
Interesting. I was IDB'd on several flights in 2014 and 2015. In fact, 90% of the flights that I booked. Only once when I booked through Delta did I get Compensation. I have never flown American Airlines in recent years, and that is why I am obsessed (not sure if this is the best term in this case) with IDBs.
Remember technology is getting much better and AA is more able to hon in on typical number of no shows or last minute flight changes. A couple weeks ago my flight was oversold by 3. Plenty volunteers including me but none of us were needed. On Thanksgiving MIA/DCA oversold by six, no one needed. The number of people that do show up (or show up in time) for a flight is truly unbelievable. About a year ago DEN/LAX oversold by 10 (or a E175 at that), in the end no one needed and even standbys got on.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 11:23 am
  #189  
 
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Interestingly, the last few times I've been to Hawaii, AA has been looking for volunteers, often like a dozen and actually needed many of them.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 11:43 am
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Originally Posted by donotblink View Post
Interestingly, the last few times I've been to Hawaii, AA has been looking for volunteers, often like a dozen and actually needed many of them.
HI out of LAX is normally not because of an oversell but because of weight and balance that they cant determine till they know what the winds are like for that day.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 11:45 am
  #191  
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Originally Posted by donotblink View Post
Interestingly, the last few times I've been to Hawaii, AA has been looking for volunteers, often like a dozen and actually needed many of them.
That is why there are almost no IDB. Because they buy volunteers. Which is the right way to do it.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 11:58 am
  #192  
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Originally Posted by donotblink View Post
Check closer to the day of departure, if you see the flight isn't available for sale and goes to Y0/J0 there's a good chance it's oversold.
The flight may be overbooked, but it cannot be oversold until there are more passengers properly presenting themselves for boarding than there are seats available. That won't be until 30 minutes prior to scheduled departure. Overbooking is not only common but pretty much universal. Oversales are very rare because AA's RM/IM software is quite precise.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 11:59 am
  #193  
 
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Originally Posted by OSSYULYYZ View Post
Interesting. I was IDB'd on several flights in 2014 and 2015. In fact, 90% of the flights that I booked. Only once when I booked through Delta did I get Compensation. I have never flown American Airlines in recent years, and that is why I am obsessed (not sure if this is the best term in this case) with IDBs.
I think the days of IDBs are almost over !
When I flew for work years ago, they would ask for volunteers but I always had to be at destination in time.
Now I have time but alas volunteers are not required.

BTW what is your secret of scoring so many IDBs?
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Old Feb 25, 19, 12:15 pm
  #194  
 
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Originally Posted by HMPS View Post
BTW what is your secret of scoring so many IDBs?
I never tried to get IDBs. I just get them. Most likely bc I have no checked bags and travelling on my own, but the Delta Flight through ATL had 20 other IDBs along with me.
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Old Feb 25, 19, 12:19 pm
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Originally Posted by OSSYULYYZ View Post
I never tried to get IDBs. I just get them. Most likely bc I have no checked bags and travelling on my own, but the Delta Flight through ATL had 20 other IDBs along with me.

Not to harp too much on technicalities, but when someone volunteers to take a different flight and gets a voucher, this is not IDB, this is VDB.
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