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IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread)

IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread)

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Old Feb 25, 19, 1:28 pm   -   Wikipost
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IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation


NOTE: See AA Bump Rates; compensation for VDB / Voluntary Denied Boarding (consolidated) for VOLUNTARY denied boarding.

Passengers involuntarily denied boarding on AA are denied usually after calls for volunteers to accept vouchers (and occasionally variable other benefits), usually beginning at $200 or $300 but possibly going significantly higher, depending on passenger response. See more below, from AA Conditions of Carriage.

Link to AA Conditions of Carriage, "Oversales"

"DBC" (involuntarily) denied boarding compensation is governed in the USA by "14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily".

Link to CFR §250.5

CFR §250.2b Carriers to request volunteers for denied boarding.

(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A “volunteer” is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space. Any other passenger denied boarding is considered for purposes of this part to have been denied boarding involuntarily, even if that passenger accepts the denied boarding compensation.

(b) Every carrier shall advise each passenger solicited to volunteer for denied boarding, no later than the time the carrier solicits that passenger to volunteer, whether he or she is in danger of being involuntarily denied boarding and, if so, the compensation the carrier is obligated to pay if the passenger is involuntarily denied boarding. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward, the carrier may deny boarding to other passengers in accordance with its boarding priority rules.

14 CFR §250.9 Written explanation of denied boarding compensation and boarding priorities, and verbal notification of denied boarding compensation.

(a) Every carrier shall furnish passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from flights on which they hold confirmed reserved space immediately after the denied boarding occurs, a written statement explaining the terms, conditions, and limitations of denied boarding compensation, and describing the carriers' boarding priority rules and criteria. The carrier shall also furnish the statement to any person upon request at all airport ticket selling positions which are in the charge of a person employed exclusively by the carrier, or by it jointly with another person or persons, and at all boarding locations being used by the carrier.
Link to US Dept. of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division's "Fly-Rights - A Consumer Guide to Air Travel" section on Overbooking

In the European Union, EC261/2004 governs denied boarding compensation.

Link to EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints and AA (master thread)

On American Airlines, you are sometimes ineligible for IDB as allowed by the USDOT:

Code:
If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than 
 there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will 
 until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation 
 willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not 
 enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in 
 accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events, 
 American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also 
 consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the 
 AAdvantage® program.
 
 If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of 
 ‘‘denied boarding compensation’’ from the airline unless:
 
 - You have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and 
 reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation 
 under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or
 
 - You are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
 
 You are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted 
 for safety or operational reasons; or
 
 - On a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied 
 boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
 
 - You are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than
 specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section 
 for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
 
 - The airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned 
 to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the 
 planned arrival time of your original flight.
The previous thread is http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html

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Old Jan 2, 17, 12:26 pm
  #151  
 
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Originally Posted by FSUnole03 View Post
The link isn't working. Can you edit your post or post again?
Google points to: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieve...=14y4.0.1.1.30
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Old Apr 16, 17, 3:48 pm
  #152  
 
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I have a feeling that after the UA PR debacle going on this week IDB's will be a thing of the past in all but the most extreme circumstances.

I have never witnessed an IDB on AA, so assume they are already extremely rare? I hope AA and UA have the sense to follow DL's lead and empower GA and supervisors more latitude to keep upping the incentive to VDB. Works out well for ALCON.

http://onemileatatime.boardingarea.c...-compensation/
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Old Apr 16, 17, 4:38 pm
  #153  
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Originally Posted by isle-hawg View Post
I have never witnessed an IDB on AA, so assume they are already extremely rare?
I saw one at SFO 3-4 years back on a holiday weekend. I volunteered and a second passenger, without a seat assignment, was IDBd, both before boarding. They cut him a check at the counter just after the original flight departed. We were both accommodated on another flight a few hours later.
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Old Apr 16, 17, 4:46 pm
  #154  
 
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I volunteered for one last year on Nashville - LGA "Only if they could reaccomodate me in F" (confirmed upgrade on overbooked flight). It was granted. Was re-accomodated (on my suggestion) on BNA-ORD-LGA which left 10 minutes later... and arrived in LGA before the nonstop due to mechanical delay.

Probably my luckiest voucher ever.
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Old Apr 16, 17, 5:00 pm
  #155  
 
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Originally Posted by isle-hawg View Post
I have a feeling that after the UA PR debacle going on this week IDB's will be a thing of the past in all but the most extreme circumstances.
I think you may be conflating IDBs and involuntary removal of passengers already boarded. I don't see any reason why the former would change much. The latter, as you say, will likely be handled very differently and avoided (or incentivized to be voluntary) wherever possible.
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Old Apr 16, 17, 5:25 pm
  #156  
 
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Originally Posted by rjw242 View Post
I think you may be conflating IDBs and involuntary removal of passengers already boarded. I don't see any reason why the former would change much. The latter, as you say, will likely be handled very differently and avoided (or incentivized to be voluntary) wherever possible.
No I am clear on the distinction between the two. I posted in this thread primarily to address IDB. Although a big scene at the gate won't gain the notoriety and press (or likely multi-million dollar lawsuit) of United's incident, I think the big 3 airlines will likely be more willing to do what is necessary to incentivize folks to accept VDB as folks at the gate have cameras too and the airlines maybe more risk adverse to piss off their customers, and instead make them at least satisfied if not happy, even though they have the right to IDB a customer as outlined in the CoC.

I can't imagine the removal of a paying seated customer against their will that has already boarded and in full compliance with all terms and conditions of the CoC ever again. Even the tone deaf Oscar has stated this will never happen again on UA.
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Old Apr 30, 17, 6:30 am
  #157  
 
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IDB Compensation-SABRE Codes

Hi everyone:

I'm a newbie. First post!

I'm looking for some insight/clarification. Need to put my mind at ease.

Awhile back, my family and I flew American into DFW and were denied boarding on the last flight to LAX. (Arrived 25-30 minutes before flight departed. Had assigned seats; did not receive compensation.) I immediately contacted the airlines after my trip and received a form letter stating we arrived late. Not true! In actuality, the gate agent refused to talk to any passengers in line until minutes before the flight was to depart and only after she had made a flight full announcement. It should come as no surprise to many of you that my request for IDB compensation was flatly denied!

I sued the airlines in small claims court and won a modest judgment for out-of-pocket expenses. In defense of the suit, American supplied a confusing SABRE Status Purged report with the following codes in the history data section: H-SPLIT FR/(ticket number)/(date) WFZXZP 02/02 01/01; HK/XM1; H-OSO$IVR$(date); and H-OSO$DLY$DOM$(date).

The codes were entered after we were IDB'd. Does anyone know what these codes mean? This has been bugging me since the trial.

Would really appreciate the help. Thank you!
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Old May 1, 17, 9:12 am
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Rae Jay View Post
Hi everyone:

I'm a newbie. First post!

I'm looking for some insight/clarification. Need to put my mind at ease.

Awhile back, my family and I flew American into DFW and were denied boarding on the last flight to LAX. (Arrived 25-30 minutes before flight departed. Had assigned seats; did not receive compensation.) I immediately contacted the airlines after my trip and received a form letter stating we arrived late. Not true! In actuality, the gate agent refused to talk to any passengers in line until minutes before the flight was to depart and only after she had made a flight full announcement. It should come as no surprise to many of you that my request for IDB compensation was flatly denied!

I sued the airlines in small claims court and won a modest judgment for out-of-pocket expenses. In defense of the suit, American supplied a confusing SABRE Status Purged report with the following codes in the history data section: H-SPLIT FR/(ticket number)/(date) WFZXZP 02/02 01/01; HK/XM1; H-OSO$IVR$(date); and H-OSO$DLY$DOM$(date).

The codes were entered after we were IDB'd. Does anyone know what these codes mean? This has been bugging me since the trial.

Would really appreciate the help. Thank you!
Welcome to FT. I had someone look at the comments you posted (all automated, BTW) and they firmly stated that there's nothing in them that would yield any additional insight. "Split" simply means the PNR was split at some point, OSO is obviously IRROPS, etc. Not a shred of extra info aside from technical stuff and/or stuff you already know.
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Old May 1, 17, 10:41 am
  #159  
 
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Originally Posted by Rae Jay View Post
Awhile back, my family and I flew American into DFW and were denied boarding on the last flight to LAX. (Arrived 25-30 minutes before flight departed. Had assigned seats; did not receive compensation.) I immediately contacted the airlines after my trip and received a form letter stating we arrived late. Not true! In actuality, the gate agent refused to talk to any passengers in line until minutes before the flight was to depart and only after she had made a flight full announcement. It should come as no surprise to many of you that my request for IDB compensation was flatly denied!

I sued the airlines in small claims court and won a modest judgment for out-of-pocket expenses.
Sorry, I'm not going to be helpful in answering your question, but have two of my own:

1) In your small claims suit, are you saying that you didn't win actual IDB compensation? What was the rationale for rejecting your claim?
2) In addition to the suit, you should probably complain to the DOT if you haven't already. It's good for them to know when American is not playing by the rules for IDB even if it won't necessarily get you any additional compensation at this point.
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Old May 1, 17, 11:03 am
  #160  
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Based on claims that pax did NOT arrive at the gate "on time", it would be "nice" if AA had time-stamp machines at each gate to verify one was ON-TIME. [Might be cheaper in the long run for AA, after court costs and DOT penalties.]
PS: After UA incident and the huge VDB caps ($10,000), IDB would seem like a better deal for airlines than VDB...I wouldn't accept a $500 VDB, if I could get $10,000.
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Old May 1, 17, 5:48 pm
  #161  
 
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Thank you JonNYC for sharing this insight. It's good to know that this information did not relate directly to the IDB action!
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Old May 1, 17, 6:33 pm
  #162  
 
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Originally Posted by jordyn View Post
Sorry, I'm not going to be helpful in answering your question, but have two of my own:

1) In your small claims suit, are you saying that you didn't win actual IDB compensation? What was the rationale for rejecting your claim?
2) In addition to the suit, you should probably complain to the DOT if you haven't already. It's good for them to know when American is not playing by the rules for IDB even if it won't necessarily get you any additional compensation at this point.
Hi Jordyn,

We didn't win IDB compensation. The court lacked jurisdiction. Also, I filed a complaint with DOT a year ago. It languished, unforgotten. After I sent a couple of follow up emails, the investigator finally responded. Apparently, American did not report my flight was an oversale so consequently, the DOT could not take action. Very deflating outcome!
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Old May 1, 17, 6:50 pm
  #163  
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Originally Posted by Rae Jay View Post
Thank you JonNYC for sharing this insight. It's good to know that this information did not relate directly to the IDB action!
My pleasure, thanks for sharing the results of your case. Yeah, the comments are all automated boilerplate, nothing interesting.
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Old May 2, 17, 9:03 pm
  #164  
 
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
My pleasure, thanks for sharing the results of your case. Yeah, the comments are all automated boilerplate, nothing interesting.

Is there a way to prove a flight was oversold? Standby passengers were given our seats. American insists we were late and because the airlines reported the flight was not oversold, DOT sided with the airlines.
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Old May 2, 17, 9:10 pm
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Rae Jay View Post
Is there a way to prove a flight was oversold? Standby passengers were given our seats. American insists we were late and because the airlines reported the flight was not oversold, DOT sided with the airlines.
Others may have other ideas, but, to me, sounds like you already had your day in court and might very well be time to move on. YMMV, needless to say.
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