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AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

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Old Jun 23, 16, 2:50 pm   -   Wikipost
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AA Begin Daily 787-8 LAX-HND Service 11 Feb 2016, DFW-HND on application

FORT WORTH, Texas, Nov. 4, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines will offer customers daily, year-round, nonstop service to Tokyo's Haneda Airport (HND) from its trans-Pacific gateway at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) beginning Feb. 11, 2016. Customers can book travel on the new route starting Sunday, Nov. 8. American recently secured takeoff and landing time slots at Haneda Airport from the Japanese aviation authorities, which will allow the commencement of the flight.

The new service will operate on the following daily schedule (all times local):

LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m. the previous day

Link
Link to Dallas Morning News article on DFW-HND 23 Jun 2016 (comparing DFW vs. MSP for Haneda service)

Link to Dallas a Morning News Aviation Blog article on DFW-HND application, 4 Apr 2016

Please see this archived thread for posts relating to AA statement of intent and delays.

Previously (as posted by Exec_Plat), wandering_fred and ashill:

DOT Docket is DOT-OST-2010-0018
AA's application to fly LAX-HND (and motion to transfer DL's authority to fly SEA-LAX) is document DOT-OST-2010-0018-0384

On June 14, 2015, the DOT ruled that Delta would retain the HND slot for use on SEA-HND with dormancy conditions that require Delta to operate the flight every day of the year.

On June 17, 2015, Delta notified the DOT in a letter that it would "determined that it is not commercially feasible to operate the slots allocated to Delta for Seattle-Haneda service on a consistent daily basis year-round". The last Delta SEA-HND flight will operate on September 30, 2015. Delta will return the slots to the DOT on October 1, 2015, at which point the slots will automatically revert to American.

American service on LAX-HND could begin (err rather could have begun) as early as October 1, 2015.

While DOT has granted rights to AA, the actual time slots in which AA can arrive and depart HND are subject to negotiation with HND and other carriers.

- It is not clear that DL had slots every day of the year, and in fact DL may have been required to surrender the slots on August 15, 2015.
- AA needs to secure daily slots for HND, however the annual winter 2015 (W15) slot conference was on June 23, 2015, only a few days after DL notified DOT they would surrender the route.
- It is unknown when AA will acquire new time slots. Purportedly the IATA slot conference for S15 will be 10-12 November. Going by the published calendar Oct 8 begins this activity: https://www.iata.org/events/Document...activities.pdf
-There may be some motion with daytime slots (Aviationweek):
The U.S. Transportation Department (DOT) recently briefed U.S. carriers on the Japanese proposal, several people familiar with the matter told Aviation Daily. As it is currently understood, the proposal would shift some of the slots available to U.S. carriers to daytime hours. It may also include one additional slot pair, which would likely not be for a daily flight
- Per the published guidelines, the SAL Deadline is October 29, 2015, at which time the airport shall have made their initial decision on all slots to be allocated for the coming season. [One assumes horsetrading then begins.]
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Old Jan 25, 16, 3:05 am
  #121  
 
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Originally Posted by FireEmblemPride View Post
Actually, this isn't true. If I interpret the Narita Rule correctly, they need to maintain flights to the same country, not necessarily the same airport.
Indeed. Otherwise, JL wouldn't have been able to move its SFO flight to HND.
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Old Jan 25, 16, 6:22 am
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
I don't think there's an "additional" nighttime slot; the current 8 nighttime flights (4 for USA and 4 for JAPAN) is reduced to 2, one for each country's carriers. If the overnight hours work for HA for HNL, then I have to assume that the overnight hours work for NH and JL, and one of them will likely keep its overnight HI flight. HA would likely get to keep its nighttime HNL flight, and I doubt that HA would win any daytime frequencies.

Of the 5 daytime flights for USA carriers, assume the current 3 flights are switched to daytime, and that would leave two new daytime frequencies for AA, DL and UA to fight over.
Thanks for the explanation. I agree, I'm pretty sure HAL would be fine with keeping the current slot time for HNL-HND, ditto for NH/JL which ever keeps the nighttime slot on HNL-HND.
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Old Jan 25, 16, 8:20 am
  #123  
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Originally Posted by FireEmblemPride View Post
Actually, this isn't true. If I interpret the Narita Rule correctly, they need to maintain flights to the same country, not necessarily the same airport.
It has been a while since I actually read the guidelines, and I could not Google my way to them just now. However the country interpretation would be contradicted by Lufthansa keeping Frankfurt from Narita (supporting NH and their own move of the Frankfurt flights) and NH keeping Munich in Narita to allow the codeshare for LH to move their flight to Haneda. If you have a link to the MLIT text I would like to re-read it.
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Old Jan 25, 16, 8:25 am
  #124  
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Originally Posted by joejones View Post
Indeed. Otherwise, JL wouldn't have been able to move its SFO flight to HND.
Did they move it, or did they add it? NH has opened a new route from Haneda to Sydney, without having a route from NRT. It is about moving, not adding.
Another point is that NH lost their codeshare to London when Virgin Atlantic closed Tokyo, and thus did not maintain London from Narita.They were expected to add a new codeshare, but there were no sanctions when it did not happen.
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Old Jan 25, 16, 2:29 pm
  #125  
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
Did they move it, or did they add it? NH has opened a new route from Haneda to Sydney, without having a route from NRT. It is about moving, not adding.
JAL simply moved their NRT-SFO flight to HND the day that HND opened up to long-haul flights in 2010. Before NRT opened, JAL had previously flown HND-SFO.
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Old Jan 25, 16, 9:10 pm
  #126  
 
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
It has been a while since I actually read the guidelines, and I could not Google my way to them just now. However the country interpretation would be contradicted by Lufthansa keeping Frankfurt from Narita (supporting NH and their own move of the Frankfurt flights) and NH keeping Munich in Narita to allow the codeshare for LH to move their flight to Haneda. If you have a link to the MLIT text I would like to re-read it.
It's an unwritten rule, which further adds to the lack of clarity and seemingly inconsistent enforcement of the rule.

Regarding LH, they actually changed NRT-FRA to NRT-KIX-FRA when they began HND-FRA. Then they switched it over to a direct again. LH had flown the A380 to NRT, but since the A380 isn't allowed at HND, I'm pretty sure that's why LH still bothers to fly NRT-FRA (and they don't do it everyday anymore).

NH actually moved its MUC flight to HND, and starts DUS-NRT, so there's no violation of the rule.

In the case of LHR, apparently JL and NH haven't been able to procure the extra slot they need to keep operating NRT-LHR and neither want to start NRT-LGW.

Lastly, the Narita Rule apparently only applies to daytime flights, and is country-based, not route-based. Thus, there were no issues with JL on SFO-HND.
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Old Jan 26, 16, 1:26 am
  #127  
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Originally Posted by FireEmblemPride View Post
It's an unwritten rule, which further adds to the lack of clarity and seemingly inconsistent enforcement of the rule.

Regarding LH, they actually changed NRT-FRA to NRT-KIX-FRA when they began HND-FRA. Then they switched it over to a direct again. LH had flown the A380 to NRT, but since the A380 isn't allowed at HND, I'm pretty sure that's why LH still bothers to fly NRT-FRA (and they don't do it everyday anymore).

NH actually moved its MUC flight to HND, and starts DUS-NRT, so there's no violation of the rule.

In the case of LHR, apparently JL and NH haven't been able to procure the extra slot they need to keep operating NRT-LHR and neither want to start NRT-LGW.

Lastly, the Narita Rule apparently only applies to daytime flights, and is country-based, not route-based. Thus, there were no issues with JL on SFO-HND.
It is not unwritten, but it is also not a rule it is a guideline issued MLIT.

Lufthansa does not operate A380 to NRT any longer. They are on A340 without F, and have also been doing 747 without F for a while before that. I am not even sure it is daily any longer. They stopped the A380 either when they opened HND, or when HND was approved for 747-8 operations.

For LHR JL and NH relied on code shares, which is allowed. JL code shares with BA on NRT LHR. NH did initially with Virgin Atlantic, to comply with the guideline.
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Old Feb 11, 16, 2:18 pm
  #128  
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AA27 takes off today from Gate 41. There will be cake.
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Old Feb 11, 16, 2:38 pm
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Originally Posted by IceTrojan View Post
AA27 takes off today from Gate 41. There will be cake.
Any inaugural gifts? Wonder what the load factor will be like for this flight? I was thinking about going down to see it then leave. LOL
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Old Feb 11, 16, 3:28 pm
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Originally Posted by brabb12 View Post
Any inaugural gifts? Wonder what the load factor will be like for this flight? I was thinking about going down to see it then leave. LOL
Looks like its full in J but wide open in Y. No surprise there.
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Old Feb 11, 16, 3:47 pm
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This route next month will my first trip on the AA 787. Looking forward to trying out both the J on the plane and the convenience to downtown Tokyo despite the relatively bad arrival and departure times at HND. They service will be the typical mediocre AA i all ready know but curious if the 787 really does ease jet lag as claimed.
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Old Feb 11, 16, 8:39 pm
  #132  
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Originally Posted by brabb12 View Post
Any inaugural gifts? Wonder what the load factor will be like for this flight? I was thinking about going down to see it then leave. LOL
If it's the same bag as the launch event last night, then everyone got something. Most people got a small Bluetooth speaker and a small branded bamboo box use to drink sake. Some got a more premium travel sac from Tokyo's tourism bureau that probably included inflight travel items...I didn't get a chance to get a clear peek inside.

Gate area had appetizers of fresh sushi, sashimi, uni with caviar, and roasted shrimp and beef; towards the end, the chefs were making custom hand rolls with the excess ingredients.

Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
Looks like its full in J but wide open in Y. No surprise there.
Was told that it was ~27 in J (probably had one more hop on in J before the door shut), including employees using their travel benefit, and ~85 in Y (with a couple of employees already seated in MCE). Loaded up very quickly, left 10 minutes early. Had one employee not make it into J, so opted to deplane and skip the trip.

Also note worth was that the flight was operated by N812AA/8AN, the newest 788 in the fleet. Was told this was the 3rd revenue flight for this airframe. Love that new plane smell.
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Old Feb 11, 16, 8:51 pm
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Originally Posted by IceTrojan View Post
If it's the same bag as the launch event last night, then everyone got something. Most people got a small Bluetooth speaker and a small branded bamboo box use to drink sake. Some got a more premium travel sac from Tokyo's tourism bureau that probably included inflight travel items...I didn't get a chance to get a clear peek inside.

Gate area had appetizers of fresh sushi, sashimi, uni with caviar, and roasted shrimp and beef; towards the end, the chefs were making custom hand rolls with the excess ingredients.



Was told that it was ~27 in J (probably had one more hop on in J before the door shut), including employees using their travel benefit, and ~85 in Y (with a couple of employees already seated in MCE). Loaded up very quickly, left 10 minutes early. Had one employee not make it into J, so opted to deplane and skip the trip.

Also note worth was that the flight was operated by N812AA/8AN, the newest 788 in the fleet. Was told this was the 3rd revenue flight for this airframe. Love that new plane smell.
I suspect once they can LAX-NRT, the loads will be better. Due to the impending US-Japan slots agreement for HND, there is a good chance this flight will become a daytime flight. If AA can operate LAX-HND daytime, they should consider putting an 77W on the route. I would reckon they would sell the front quite well, especially if they don't put the 77W on DFW-NRT.
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Old Feb 11, 16, 9:39 pm
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Originally Posted by IceTrojan View Post
If it's the same bag as the launch event last night, then everyone got something. Most people got a small Bluetooth speaker and a small branded bamboo box use to drink sake. Some got a more premium travel sac from Tokyo's tourism bureau that probably included inflight travel items...I didn't get a chance to get a clear peek inside.

Gate area had appetizers of fresh sushi, sashimi, uni with caviar, and roasted shrimp and beef; towards the end, the chefs were making custom hand rolls with the excess ingredients.
I knew I should have gone tonight. Did you take photos???

Last edited by Microwave; Feb 18, 16 at 7:13 am Reason: Corrected invalid quote syntax
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Old Feb 11, 16, 10:25 pm
  #135  
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
I suspect once they can LAX-NRT, the loads will be better. Due to the impending US-Japan slots agreement for HND, there is a good chance this flight will become a daytime flight. If AA can operate LAX-HND daytime, they should consider putting an 77W on the route. I would reckon they would sell the front quite well, especially if they don't put the 77W on DFW-NRT.
The meetings to agree the allocation of daytime slots have been postponed at the request of the US side so the conversion to a daytime flight remains uncertain. (Japanese link)
http://www.aviationwire.jp/archives/81696
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