Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > American Airlines | AAdvantage
Reload this Page >

AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

    Hide Wikipost
Old Jun 23, 16, 2:50 pm   -   Wikipost
Please read: This is a community-maintained wiki post containing the most important information from this thread. You may edit the Wiki once you have been on FT for 90 days and have made 90 posts.
 
Last edit by: JDiver
Wiki Link
AA Begin Daily 787-8 LAX-HND Service 11 Feb 2016, DFW-HND on application

FORT WORTH, Texas, Nov. 4, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines will offer customers daily, year-round, nonstop service to Tokyo's Haneda Airport (HND) from its trans-Pacific gateway at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) beginning Feb. 11, 2016. Customers can book travel on the new route starting Sunday, Nov. 8. American recently secured takeoff and landing time slots at Haneda Airport from the Japanese aviation authorities, which will allow the commencement of the flight.

The new service will operate on the following daily schedule (all times local):

LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m. the previous day

Link
Link to Dallas Morning News article on DFW-HND 23 Jun 2016 (comparing DFW vs. MSP for Haneda service)

Link to Dallas a Morning News Aviation Blog article on DFW-HND application, 4 Apr 2016

Please see this archived thread for posts relating to AA statement of intent and delays.

Previously (as posted by Exec_Plat), wandering_fred and ashill:

DOT Docket is DOT-OST-2010-0018
AA's application to fly LAX-HND (and motion to transfer DL's authority to fly SEA-LAX) is document DOT-OST-2010-0018-0384

On June 14, 2015, the DOT ruled that Delta would retain the HND slot for use on SEA-HND with dormancy conditions that require Delta to operate the flight every day of the year.

On June 17, 2015, Delta notified the DOT in a letter that it would "determined that it is not commercially feasible to operate the slots allocated to Delta for Seattle-Haneda service on a consistent daily basis year-round". The last Delta SEA-HND flight will operate on September 30, 2015. Delta will return the slots to the DOT on October 1, 2015, at which point the slots will automatically revert to American.

American service on LAX-HND could begin (err rather could have begun) as early as October 1, 2015.

While DOT has granted rights to AA, the actual time slots in which AA can arrive and depart HND are subject to negotiation with HND and other carriers.

- It is not clear that DL had slots every day of the year, and in fact DL may have been required to surrender the slots on August 15, 2015.
- AA needs to secure daily slots for HND, however the annual winter 2015 (W15) slot conference was on June 23, 2015, only a few days after DL notified DOT they would surrender the route.
- It is unknown when AA will acquire new time slots. Purportedly the IATA slot conference for S15 will be 10-12 November. Going by the published calendar Oct 8 begins this activity: https://www.iata.org/events/Document...activities.pdf
-There may be some motion with daytime slots (Aviationweek):
The U.S. Transportation Department (DOT) recently briefed U.S. carriers on the Japanese proposal, several people familiar with the matter told Aviation Daily. As it is currently understood, the proposal would shift some of the slots available to U.S. carriers to daytime hours. It may also include one additional slot pair, which would likely not be for a daily flight
- Per the published guidelines, the SAL Deadline is October 29, 2015, at which time the airport shall have made their initial decision on all slots to be allocated for the coming season. [One assumes horsetrading then begins.]
Print Wikipost

Old Nov 5, 15, 5:52 pm
  #61  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS MVP, VA
Posts: 5,167
Originally Posted by kebosabi View Post
The 23:00 arrival time at HND sucks.

If it were like ANA which departs after midnight and arrives early like 05:00, then there would be a ton of domestic Japan and Asia connections to be made on JAL and CX. Would go well for military service members flying to OKA and GMP too.

Hopefully times would be changed going forward.
But an ANA plane arriving at HND at 0500 doesn't have to sit on the ground for 17 hours, whereas an AA plane would. Obviously, that doesn't matter to a customer, who should by all means take the early morning arrival of it works better, but it does mean that the US airlines have a very good economic reason not to use that schedule.
ashill is offline  
Old Nov 5, 15, 8:46 pm
  #62  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: home = LAX
Posts: 24,948
Originally Posted by swy View Post
ugh... the link (http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/american-air...-february-2016) died. The link is also the first non-news result if you google this news.

I would think that AA want people to see the big news.
What do you mean the link died? I just tried it right now, and it's working, showing "American Airlines To Launch Service Between Los Angeles And Tokyo Haneda In February 2016".
sdsearch is offline  
Old Nov 5, 15, 9:57 pm
  #63  
swy
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Programs: Greyhound Vermillion Mithril
Posts: 691
Originally Posted by sdsearch View Post
What do you mean the link died? I just tried it right now, and it's working, showing "American Airlines To Launch Service Between Los Angeles And Tokyo Haneda In February 2016".
Well, it works now for me too. I congratulate myself for making AA fix this
swy is offline  
Old Nov 8, 15, 12:02 pm
  #64  
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Programs: QF WP, AA EXP
Posts: 3,101
Inventory has been loaded, but unfortunately at this time, in economy it's all Y/B/H - nothing lower most days around launch. I have a trip I need to book to Japan that week, but the prices are outrageous in Y. I could fly business on JAL (NRT) for the same price as AA wants for Y.

I'm sure this is going to change at some point - but for now I can't imagine that they are going to be selling many seats.
SNA_Flyer is offline  
Old Nov 8, 15, 7:53 pm
  #65  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 805
I can't wrap my head around the HND arrival bickering. 2300 is perfect. You get right to sleep and wake up next day ready to go, and are able to get a full day in before leaving LAX. Not bad at all. The 130 departure is definitely a little whacky though. Kind of a bummer about the public transportation, but thankfully you're now at HND and cab fares aren't as insane as NRT (but who cares right, it should be expensed anyway ha ha ha)
Hengilas is offline  
Old Nov 9, 15, 2:23 am
  #66  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: WAS via RDU, FLL, PHL and TYO
Programs: UA Gold, Hilton Dia, Radisson Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 3,875
Originally Posted by mikekelley View Post
I can't wrap my head around the HND arrival bickering. 2300 is perfect.
The protests are coming from people who want to travel beyond Tokyo to other cities in Japan/Asia. 2300 is definitely a bad time to catch connections at HND. But as others have mentioned above, this flight is all about Tokyo O&D, which is pretty darn strong.
joejones is offline  
Old Nov 9, 15, 11:49 am
  #67  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 527
Originally Posted by joejones View Post
The protests are coming from people who want to travel beyond Tokyo to other cities in Japan/Asia. 2300 is definitely a bad time to catch connections at HND. But as others have mentioned above, this flight is all about Tokyo O&D, which is pretty darn strong.
most of japans smaller domestic airports usually finishes up around 10pm at latest.
brabb12 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 15, 5:50 pm
  #68  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JMB Diamond Metal Card (OWE) , SAS Eurobonus Gold, (*G) Marriott Ambassador (LTP)
Posts: 11,879
Originally Posted by joejones View Post
The protests are coming from people who want to travel beyond Tokyo to other cities in Japan/Asia. 2300 is definitely a bad time to catch connections at HND. But as others have mentioned above, this flight is all about Tokyo O&D, which is pretty darn strong.
On JAL one should be able to make Singapore, Bangkok and Ho Chi Min City connections. On other Oneworld partners I am not sure, but someone mentioned Hong Kong on Dragon Air.

While the short Asian destinations, like Korea, east coast China, Taiwan, and domestic connections need a morning/daytime arrival the flight does have some options for connecting.
CPH-Flyer is offline  
Old Nov 9, 15, 7:34 pm
  #69  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: NYC, SFO
Programs: AY+ Plat, AA Plat, Marriott Titanium, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,840
Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
On JAL one should be able to make Singapore, Bangkok and Ho Chi Min City connections. On other Oneworld partners I am not sure, but someone mentioned Hong Kong on Dragon Air.

While the short Asian destinations, like Korea, east coast China, Taiwan, and domestic connections need a morning/daytime arrival the flight does have some options for connecting.
SIN and BKK depart at midnight, so while certainly possible, a small delay would make the connection tight. KA does have a HKG flight departing around 1am.
flyingeph12 is offline  
Old Nov 9, 15, 8:41 pm
  #70  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JMB Diamond Metal Card (OWE) , SAS Eurobonus Gold, (*G) Marriott Ambassador (LTP)
Posts: 11,879
Originally Posted by flyingeph12 View Post
SIN and BKK depart at midnight, so while certainly possible, a small delay would make the connection tight. KA does have a HKG flight departing around 1am.
You do not have to go through immigration for the connections, and JAL staff will be around to help you if it gets tight. I would have no worries about booking them.
CPH-Flyer is offline  
Old Nov 10, 15, 1:17 am
  #71  
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP 1.5MM, Asiana Club Silver, KE Morning Calm, Hyatt Platinum, Amtrak Select
Posts: 7,155
Originally Posted by mikekelley View Post
I can't wrap my head around the HND arrival bickering. 2300 is perfect. You get right to sleep and wake up next day ready to go, and are able to get a full day in before leaving LAX. Not bad at all.
Not really. By landing at 23:00 you're pretty much jet lagged to get enough sleep (you already sleep in the plane) and by the time you clear immigration and customs, collect your luggage, get a cab (or take the Airport Limousine bus or Tokyo Monorail to JR) it could be well past midnight before you reach your hotel and have less than few hours of sleep (and have trouble sleeping considering if you slept on the plane) before morning.

With a 05:00 arrival like NH, it works out beautifully because you already get sleep on the plane and by the time you wake up, it's morning in Japan and can get right at working or leisure travel the day you arrive.

Trust me, I've done my share of late night arrivals into NRT from JFK, ICN, and TPE and it isn't great as you imagine and I doubt it's any better with late night arrivals into HND.

Originally Posted by ashill View Post
But an ANA plane arriving at HND at 0500 doesn't have to sit on the ground for 17 hours, whereas an AA plane would. Obviously, that doesn't matter to a customer, who should by all means take the early morning arrival of it works better, but it does mean that the US airlines have a very good economic reason not to use that schedule.
One way to get around this is that AA can argue that DL isn't utilizing their grandfathered (from NW) fifth freedom rights in Japan. DL has made large cutbacks such as ending flights to ICN, PUS, soon HKG, SGN, BOM and others that NW used to fly when NRT was their hub. Such a case, if successful, can lead to:

1. AA purchases DL's fifth freedom rights in Japan, much like how UA purchased PA's rights

or

2. Liberalize fifth freedom rights in Japan to include AA so that AA can use that 17 hours to fly beyond HND to places like ICN/GMP, TPE/TSA, HKG, or SIN and strengthen the number of OW flights in East Asia to compete better with *A.

Last edited by kebosabi; Nov 10, 15 at 1:47 am
kebosabi is offline  
Old Nov 10, 15, 2:25 am
  #72  
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: WAS via RDU, FLL, PHL and TYO
Programs: UA Gold, Hilton Dia, Radisson Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 3,875
Originally Posted by kebosabi View Post
One way to get around this is that AA can argue that DL isn't utilizing their grandfathered (from NW) fifth freedom rights in Japan.
HND is subject to special restrictions under bilateral agreements, and nobody can offer fifth freedom flights there. Fifth freedom rights are also not on a "use it or lose it" basis to begin with (otherwise ANA would probably sue to get the rights that JAL isn't using at all).
joejones is offline  
Old Nov 10, 15, 5:48 am
  #73  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,304
Originally Posted by joejones View Post
The protests are coming from people who want to travel beyond Tokyo to other cities in Japan/Asia. 2300 is definitely a bad time to catch connections at HND. But as others have mentioned above, this flight is all about Tokyo O&D, which is pretty darn strong.
The main issue with a 2300 HND arrival is that almost all public transport stops just after midnight, leaving only a handful of night buses.
If you hit any sort of delay with reaching the train or monorail stations ground side, you could very well be stuck with a very expensive taxi or sitting around for upwards of 2 or 3 hours for a bus going somewhere close to where you want to be.
Himeno is offline  
Old Nov 10, 15, 5:57 am
  #74  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tokyo
Programs: JMB Diamond Metal Card (OWE) , SAS Eurobonus Gold, (*G) Marriott Ambassador (LTP)
Posts: 11,879
Originally Posted by Himeno View Post
The main issue with a 2300 HND arrival is that almost all public transport stops just after midnight, leaving only a handful of night buses.
If you hit any sort of delay with reaching the train or monorail stations ground side, you could very well be stuck with a very expensive taxi or sitting around for upwards of 2 or 3 hours for a bus going somewhere close to where you want to be.
The taxi fare from Haneda are not that bad. A bit depending on where you are going, but central Tokyo is capped and should set you back less than 10.000 yen. I pay about 7000 yen to get home with a taxi from Haneda. If your destination is Yokohama, you may be in for a significant charge.
CPH-Flyer is offline  
Old Nov 10, 15, 7:46 am
  #75  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS MVP, VA
Posts: 5,167
Originally Posted by kebosabi View Post
One way to get around this is that AA can argue that DL isn't utilizing their grandfathered (from NW) fifth freedom rights in Japan. DL has made large cutbacks such as ending flights to ICN, PUS, soon HKG, SGN, BOM and others that NW used to fly when NRT was their hub. Such a case, if successful, can lead to:

1. AA purchases DL's fifth freedom rights in Japan, much like how UA purchased PA's rights

or

2. Liberalize fifth freedom rights in Japan to include AA so that AA can use that 17 hours to fly beyond HND to places like ICN/GMP, TPE/TSA, HKG, or SIN and strengthen the number of OW flights in East Asia to compete better with *A.
We're talking about AA's schedule right now. None of those are possible right now, even if AA wanted to. Maybe ever, but that's a separate discussion.
ashill is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Search Engine: