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AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

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Old Jun 23, 16, 2:50 pm   -   Wikipost
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AA Begin Daily 787-8 LAX-HND Service 11 Feb 2016, DFW-HND on application

FORT WORTH, Texas, Nov. 4, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines will offer customers daily, year-round, nonstop service to Tokyo's Haneda Airport (HND) from its trans-Pacific gateway at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) beginning Feb. 11, 2016. Customers can book travel on the new route starting Sunday, Nov. 8. American recently secured takeoff and landing time slots at Haneda Airport from the Japanese aviation authorities, which will allow the commencement of the flight.

The new service will operate on the following daily schedule (all times local):

LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m. the previous day

Link
Link to Dallas Morning News article on DFW-HND 23 Jun 2016 (comparing DFW vs. MSP for Haneda service)

Link to Dallas a Morning News Aviation Blog article on DFW-HND application, 4 Apr 2016

Please see this archived thread for posts relating to AA statement of intent and delays.

Previously (as posted by Exec_Plat), wandering_fred and ashill:

DOT Docket is DOT-OST-2010-0018
AA's application to fly LAX-HND (and motion to transfer DL's authority to fly SEA-LAX) is document DOT-OST-2010-0018-0384

On June 14, 2015, the DOT ruled that Delta would retain the HND slot for use on SEA-HND with dormancy conditions that require Delta to operate the flight every day of the year.

On June 17, 2015, Delta notified the DOT in a letter that it would "determined that it is not commercially feasible to operate the slots allocated to Delta for Seattle-Haneda service on a consistent daily basis year-round". The last Delta SEA-HND flight will operate on September 30, 2015. Delta will return the slots to the DOT on October 1, 2015, at which point the slots will automatically revert to American.

American service on LAX-HND could begin (err rather could have begun) as early as October 1, 2015.

While DOT has granted rights to AA, the actual time slots in which AA can arrive and depart HND are subject to negotiation with HND and other carriers.

- It is not clear that DL had slots every day of the year, and in fact DL may have been required to surrender the slots on August 15, 2015.
- AA needs to secure daily slots for HND, however the annual winter 2015 (W15) slot conference was on June 23, 2015, only a few days after DL notified DOT they would surrender the route.
- It is unknown when AA will acquire new time slots. Purportedly the IATA slot conference for S15 will be 10-12 November. Going by the published calendar Oct 8 begins this activity: https://www.iata.org/events/Document...activities.pdf
-There may be some motion with daytime slots (Aviationweek):
The U.S. Transportation Department (DOT) recently briefed U.S. carriers on the Japanese proposal, several people familiar with the matter told Aviation Daily. As it is currently understood, the proposal would shift some of the slots available to U.S. carriers to daytime hours. It may also include one additional slot pair, which would likely not be for a daily flight
- Per the published guidelines, the SAL Deadline is October 29, 2015, at which time the airport shall have made their initial decision on all slots to be allocated for the coming season. [One assumes horsetrading then begins.]
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Old Nov 4, 15, 3:42 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by Exec_Plat View Post
And...

Anyone have insider info on what equipment might be used LAX-NRT?

ive see it referenced that an internal memo states LAX-NRT and LAX-HND will coexist. And we see 788 for HND. What about AA169/170?
Probably still the 777-200ER.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 4:33 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by TheBOSman View Post
Not a fan of those flight times...
The outbound has a decent (or maybe even a little brief; no time to hit a shower!) late night connection to BKK, but the return has a long-ish 4 1/2 hour connection. Still not horrible.

Didn't check other JL connections but my impression is the times tend to be similar.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 4:57 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
That's incorrect.

SEA-HND failed for DL because SEA is a seasonal market with very limited Tokyo O&D. LAX, the USA market with the largest Tokyo O&D, has many multiples of local traffic to/from Tokyo compared to SEA. That's why DL failed at SEA-HND. Just not enough O&D. Not unlike US' failure at PHL-TLV. Not enough high-fare paying O&D.

If your incorrect conclusion above were accurate, then how does Delta make its LAX-HND flight work? DL's slots for its LAX-HND flight are not terribly different from the ones AA has published for its LAX-HND flight.
LAX does have a much higher OD to Japan than SEA...however right now only NH and DL run LAX/HND. Now a 3rd widebody will be on the route and is going to tank everyone's yields.

And I do think a better time slot and DL could have made the SEA/HND work. It's not unimaginable to think a better time slot would allow for good connecting flow from the network DL built in SEA.

Also that extra 40 minutes difference between arriving at 1020 vs 1100 is a very big deal if you're trying to catch the train.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 5:02 pm
  #34  
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LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m.

The LAX-HND flight will be operated with American's state-of-art Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner.
Where else will these 787-8 Dreamliners fly from LAX? Or will they sit at LAX for 23 hours? Obviously, if the plane from HND arrives 20 minutes after the plane to HND was to depart, they can't use the same plane that just arrived to return to HND without waiting 23 hours. So they need at least two 787-8 planes based at LAX to do this route daily in rotation.

So have other routes from LAX using the 787-8 been announced that would use the same planes during that 23 hour wait?
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Old Nov 4, 15, 5:10 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by kop84 View Post
Now a 3rd widebody will be on the route and is going to tank everyone's yields.
Not if AA downgauges LAX-NRT to a 788 when they have more frames on property.

Originally Posted by sdsearch View Post
So have other routes from LAX using the 787-8 been announced that would use the same planes during that 23 hour wait?
Just speculation, but would not be surprised to see these doing domestic runs to ORD or DFW much like they do with the 772s to MIA, or scissoring them through DFW to a shorter SA or European route.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 5:31 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by sdsearch View Post
LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m.

The LAX-HND flight will be operated with American's state-of-art Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner.
Where else will these 787-8 Dreamliners fly from LAX? Or will they sit at LAX for 23 hours? Obviously, if the plane from HND arrives 20 minutes after the plane to HND was to depart, they can't use the same plane that just arrived to return to HND without waiting 23 hours. So they need at least two 787-8 planes based at LAX to do this route daily in rotation.

So have other routes from LAX using the 787-8 been announced that would use the same planes during that 23 hour wait?
GRU uses a 788. AKL will eventually use a 788. I wouldn't be surprised if they threw in DFW runs to even it out (I'm no aircraft planner) lol
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Old Nov 4, 15, 5:36 pm
  #37  
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Originally Posted by sdsearch View Post
Where else will these 787-8 Dreamliners fly from LAX? Or will they sit at LAX for 23 hours? Obviously, if the plane from HND arrives 20 minutes after the plane to HND was to depart, they can't use the same plane that just arrived to return to HND without waiting 23 hours. So they need at least two 787-8 planes based at LAX to do this route daily in rotation.

So have other routes from LAX using the 787-8 been announced that would use the same planes during that 23 hour wait?
My first guess would be LAX-GRU. You'd only need 3 787s to do both RT flights in a 24-hr cycle.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 5:43 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by Fanjet View Post
My first guess would be LAX-GRU. You'd only need 3 787s to do both RT flights in a 24-hr cycle.
What happens to the 787 on LAX-PVG then? A rotation like LAX-PVG-LAX-HND-LAX-GRU-LAX?
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Old Nov 4, 15, 6:10 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by sdsearch View Post
So have other routes from LAX using the 787-8 been announced that would use the same planes during that 23 hour wait?
In addition to GRU mentioned above, LAX-PVG is now a 787-8, and management told employees recently that LAX would become one of the largest (if not the primary) AA 787 bases in the network as more flights to Asia are begun.

I have to believe that LAX-NRT is a perfect route for a 787, as AA has never made money on that route. The 787 might even open up the possibility of LAX-CDG plus it would make more sense for AA to fly LAX-MAD than IB, perhaps with a 787. And throw in a MIA turn or two if necessary to keep them busy.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 6:31 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by taxicabnumber View Post
What happens to the 787 on LAX-PVG then? A rotation like LAX-PVG-LAX-HND-LAX-GRU-LAX?
Why would anything happen to it? Can't the PVG-LAX-PVG flights be rotated in with the PVG-ORD/DFW flights?
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Old Nov 4, 15, 7:00 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by Fanjet View Post
Why would anything happen to it? Can't the PVG-LAX-PVG flights be rotated in with the PVG-ORD/DFW flights?
PVG-LAX arrives early afternoon (2-3PM ish), while LAX-PVG leaves ~9-10AM. I suppose they could retime the flights to make a rotation with PVG-DFW work (PVG-ORD is still 772), but they've been seemingly rotating PVG-LAX-GRU-LAX-PVG, while the LAX-NRT goes South-America-MIA-LAX-NRT and vv. (Although admittedly that was while both GRU/PVG were 772s, not sure what happened this past month when one was 788 while the other was still 772 before switching over).
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Old Nov 4, 15, 7:36 pm
  #42  
 
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I am quite surprised that AA is operating both LAX-NRT and LAX-HND from February. I really don't think there is that much continuous demand on the market throughout the year.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 7:49 pm
  #43  
 
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NH and DL both operate LAX-NRT in addition to LAX-HND. From a business traveler's perspective, the combination is great because you can choose between the daytime NRT flight and the nighttime HND flight. Much more scheduling flexibility that way.

LA to Tokyo is a massive, massive market, especially if you throw in feed to other US and Asian destinations.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 8:55 pm
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by nkedel View Post
The outbound has a decent (or maybe even a little brief; no time to hit a shower!) late night connection to BKK, but the return has a long-ish 4 1/2 hour connection. Still not horrible.

Didn't check other JL connections but my impression is the times tend to be similar.
SIN and SGN are doable also
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Old Nov 4, 15, 8:57 pm
  #45  
 
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One other thing: Japan doesn't "Spring forward" so that 11PM arrival - does that STAY 11PM and mean an later departure from LAX after US time change on March 8th - or does LAX slot remain and AA gets a 10PM arrival into HND?



Originally Posted by nkedel View Post
The outbound has a decent (or maybe even a little brief; no time to hit a shower!) late night connection to BKK, but the return has a long-ish 4 1/2 hour connection. Still not horrible.

Didn't check other JL connections but my impression is the times tend to be similar.
SIN and SGN are doable also
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