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AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

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Old Jun 23, 16, 2:50 pm   -   Wikipost
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AA Begin Daily 787-8 LAX-HND Service 11 Feb 2016, DFW-HND on application

FORT WORTH, Texas, Nov. 4, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines will offer customers daily, year-round, nonstop service to Tokyo's Haneda Airport (HND) from its trans-Pacific gateway at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) beginning Feb. 11, 2016. Customers can book travel on the new route starting Sunday, Nov. 8. American recently secured takeoff and landing time slots at Haneda Airport from the Japanese aviation authorities, which will allow the commencement of the flight.

The new service will operate on the following daily schedule (all times local):

LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m. the previous day

Link
Link to Dallas Morning News article on DFW-HND 23 Jun 2016 (comparing DFW vs. MSP for Haneda service)

Link to Dallas a Morning News Aviation Blog article on DFW-HND application, 4 Apr 2016

Please see this archived thread for posts relating to AA statement of intent and delays.

Previously (as posted by Exec_Plat), wandering_fred and ashill:

DOT Docket is DOT-OST-2010-0018
AA's application to fly LAX-HND (and motion to transfer DL's authority to fly SEA-LAX) is document DOT-OST-2010-0018-0384

On June 14, 2015, the DOT ruled that Delta would retain the HND slot for use on SEA-HND with dormancy conditions that require Delta to operate the flight every day of the year.

On June 17, 2015, Delta notified the DOT in a letter that it would "determined that it is not commercially feasible to operate the slots allocated to Delta for Seattle-Haneda service on a consistent daily basis year-round". The last Delta SEA-HND flight will operate on September 30, 2015. Delta will return the slots to the DOT on October 1, 2015, at which point the slots will automatically revert to American.

American service on LAX-HND could begin (err rather could have begun) as early as October 1, 2015.

While DOT has granted rights to AA, the actual time slots in which AA can arrive and depart HND are subject to negotiation with HND and other carriers.

- It is not clear that DL had slots every day of the year, and in fact DL may have been required to surrender the slots on August 15, 2015.
- AA needs to secure daily slots for HND, however the annual winter 2015 (W15) slot conference was on June 23, 2015, only a few days after DL notified DOT they would surrender the route.
- It is unknown when AA will acquire new time slots. Purportedly the IATA slot conference for S15 will be 10-12 November. Going by the published calendar Oct 8 begins this activity: https://www.iata.org/events/Document...activities.pdf
-There may be some motion with daytime slots (Aviationweek):
The U.S. Transportation Department (DOT) recently briefed U.S. carriers on the Japanese proposal, several people familiar with the matter told Aviation Daily. As it is currently understood, the proposal would shift some of the slots available to U.S. carriers to daytime hours. It may also include one additional slot pair, which would likely not be for a daily flight
- Per the published guidelines, the SAL Deadline is October 29, 2015, at which time the airport shall have made their initial decision on all slots to be allocated for the coming season. [One assumes horsetrading then begins.]
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Old Nov 4, 15, 8:46 am
  #16  
 
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If JL codeshares on this it will do fine even with the late arrival into HND. If you are using this to connect at HND look for other options. What part of HND is O&D do most not get? Sure you can downstream to TSA, GMP, SHA and others but that will require a longer connect. Looks fine for connections to SIN, BKK and SGN though

10PM is NOT as bad as it was a year ago into HND; more options to leave the airport even if you have to wait on baggage/immigration.

Curious what happens to timing on March 8th (US time zone change) ; does the HND arrival stay fixed and LAX slot departure/arrival times change?
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Old Nov 4, 15, 9:04 am
  #17  
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
AA pulled a rabbit out of the hat here because the slot timings at HND (both arrival and departure) are almost exactly what AA had proposed.

As ashill pointed out, they're about the best timings possible given the operating constraints at HND and the absolute necessity that the flight offer sufficient connections at LAX.
They can be the best timings AA could get, or even the timings AA wanted, and I can still not like them. "This is all I could get" doesn't necessarily equal "satisfactory".
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Old Nov 4, 15, 9:22 am
  #18  
 
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[rehast warning..]

I wasnt expecting an announcement until after the s16 slot conference beginning Nov 10...

I am guessing HND airport authority distributed their slot allocation listing around Oct 28, and AA accepted the slots as distributed once the analyzed who had what... (Assume there isnt much slot movement at HND for US carriers...)

obviously the equipment isnt a 777 as originally proposed, but rather the 788. Given the times, nobody is surprised.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 9:26 am
  #19  
 
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11PM is going to be a bit tight if people are planning on taking public transportation from the airport, as the last train from HND departs just after midnight.

Also, I don't know what LAX banks look like these days -- is 6:20 going to be too late to enable domestic connections given I-D MCTs?
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Old Nov 4, 15, 9:38 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by linglingfool View Post
Also, I don't know what LAX banks look like these days -- is 6:20 going to be too late to enable domestic connections given I-D MCTs?
Depends on the destination, although anything DFW and east will likely require a redeye or an overnight, either of which might undo some of the advantage of HND over NRT.

LAX-DFW departures, using November 19, 2015 as my example date, are at 6PM, 7:25PM, then 12:10AM and 1:20AM on very early Friday the 20th. I-D MCT at LAX is 2 hours from what I can tell (thought it was 90 minutes?), so the 7:25PM isn't an option whether it is 90 minutes or 120 minutes MCT required.

LAX-JFK departures, same date, are 4:45PM, 9:30PM, 10:30PM, and 11:30PM.

LAX-AUS is 6:50PM, well under MCT and thus would require an overnight.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 10:41 am
  #21  
 
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Will (are?) HND and NRT be co-terminals? Allowing folks to 'split' their trips between the two, depending on timing constraints on one end or the other? (and not making it an open jaw)
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Old Nov 4, 15, 11:00 am
  #22  
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According to Seeking Alpha, American received help from the DOT and the State Department in obtaining the slots at HND.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 11:13 am
  #23  
 
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Of course AA has horrible slots. That's why DL couldn't make SEA/HND work. If DL had a half way decent slot at HND they wouldn't have ever given it up.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 11:34 am
  #24  
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Originally Posted by kop84 View Post
Of course AA has horrible slots. That's why DL couldn't make SEA/HND work. If DL had a half way decent slot at HND they wouldn't have ever given it up.
That's incorrect.

SEA-HND failed for DL because SEA is a seasonal market with very limited Tokyo O&D. LAX, the USA market with the largest Tokyo O&D, has many multiples of local traffic to/from Tokyo compared to SEA. That's why DL failed at SEA-HND. Just not enough O&D. Not unlike US' failure at PHL-TLV. Not enough high-fare paying O&D.

If your incorrect conclusion above were accurate, then how does Delta make its LAX-HND flight work? DL's slots for its LAX-HND flight are not terribly different from the ones AA has published for its LAX-HND flight.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 11:41 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
That's incorrect.

SEA-HND failed for DL because SEA is a seasonal market with very limited Tokyo O&D. LAX, the USA market with the largest Tokyo O&D, has many multiples of local traffic to/from Tokyo compared to SEA. That's why DL failed at SEA-HND. Just not enough O&D. Not unlike US' failure at PHL-TLV. Not enough high-fare paying O&D.

If your incorrect conclusion above were accurate, then how does Delta make its LAX-HND flight work? DL's slots for its LAX-HND flight are not terribly different from the ones AA has published for its LAX-HND flight.
I think a slightly better way to put it is that, with the crappy slot times, only the very best west coast-TYO markets (LAX and SFO) work, and the slots don't work at all even for very strong east coast-TYO markets (like NYC). With better slot times, markets like SEA, DTW, DFW, etc (ie any market that currently supports NRT service, and perhaps a few more) could probably work.

And of course these times are pretty good for Hawaii service, which is why HNL-HND works just fine and why HA thinks that KOA-HND would work even though there's no current KOA-NRT service (ie HA has reason to think that KOA is in the "perhaps a few more" category).
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Old Nov 4, 15, 12:37 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by Kacee View Post
Not to mention that it's always kind of cool to time travel backwards by a day on the return from HND.
"I left tomorrow and got home early enough to have dinner tonight with friends." Is this is what Tom Cruise was talking about in "Edge of Tomorrow"?
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Old Nov 4, 15, 1:46 pm
  #27  
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Delta is a sore loser.
The Dallas Morning News Airline Biz Blog

“It is still our position that [American] is required to start flying LA-Haneda by Dec. 1,” said Delta spokesman Trebor Banstetter. “The fact that they have announced a date in February is a violation of their authority and their commitments.”

Delta still wants that Haneda route returned to the DOT and reopened for general bidding.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 1:52 pm
  #28  
 
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With these time - we may see C class availability on the route.
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Old Nov 4, 15, 2:31 pm
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Originally Posted by TWA884 View Post
I guess DOT helped get the slots and now, somehow, after AA and DOT have been communicating, they will turn around and say "oh, yeah- thats right...we'll need to now take those slots away because DL is being a crybaby".



Isnt the missing bit of info when the slots can be used by AA??
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Old Nov 4, 15, 2:38 pm
  #30  
 
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And...

Anyone have insider info on what equipment might be used LAX-NRT?

ive see it referenced that an internal memo states LAX-NRT and LAX-HND will coexist. And we see 788 for HND. What about AA169/170?
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