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AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

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Old Jun 23, 16, 2:50 pm   -   Wikipost
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AA Begin Daily 787-8 LAX-HND Service 11 Feb 2016, DFW-HND on application

FORT WORTH, Texas, Nov. 4, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines will offer customers daily, year-round, nonstop service to Tokyo's Haneda Airport (HND) from its trans-Pacific gateway at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) beginning Feb. 11, 2016. Customers can book travel on the new route starting Sunday, Nov. 8. American recently secured takeoff and landing time slots at Haneda Airport from the Japanese aviation authorities, which will allow the commencement of the flight.

The new service will operate on the following daily schedule (all times local):

LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m. the previous day

Link
Link to Dallas Morning News article on DFW-HND 23 Jun 2016 (comparing DFW vs. MSP for Haneda service)

Link to Dallas a Morning News Aviation Blog article on DFW-HND application, 4 Apr 2016

Please see this archived thread for posts relating to AA statement of intent and delays.

Previously (as posted by Exec_Plat), wandering_fred and ashill:

DOT Docket is DOT-OST-2010-0018
AA's application to fly LAX-HND (and motion to transfer DL's authority to fly SEA-LAX) is document DOT-OST-2010-0018-0384

On June 14, 2015, the DOT ruled that Delta would retain the HND slot for use on SEA-HND with dormancy conditions that require Delta to operate the flight every day of the year.

On June 17, 2015, Delta notified the DOT in a letter that it would "determined that it is not commercially feasible to operate the slots allocated to Delta for Seattle-Haneda service on a consistent daily basis year-round". The last Delta SEA-HND flight will operate on September 30, 2015. Delta will return the slots to the DOT on October 1, 2015, at which point the slots will automatically revert to American.

American service on LAX-HND could begin (err rather could have begun) as early as October 1, 2015.

While DOT has granted rights to AA, the actual time slots in which AA can arrive and depart HND are subject to negotiation with HND and other carriers.

- It is not clear that DL had slots every day of the year, and in fact DL may have been required to surrender the slots on August 15, 2015.
- AA needs to secure daily slots for HND, however the annual winter 2015 (W15) slot conference was on June 23, 2015, only a few days after DL notified DOT they would surrender the route.
- It is unknown when AA will acquire new time slots. Purportedly the IATA slot conference for S15 will be 10-12 November. Going by the published calendar Oct 8 begins this activity: https://www.iata.org/events/Document...activities.pdf
-There may be some motion with daytime slots (Aviationweek):
The U.S. Transportation Department (DOT) recently briefed U.S. carriers on the Japanese proposal, several people familiar with the matter told Aviation Daily. As it is currently understood, the proposal would shift some of the slots available to U.S. carriers to daytime hours. It may also include one additional slot pair, which would likely not be for a daily flight
- Per the published guidelines, the SAL Deadline is October 29, 2015, at which time the airport shall have made their initial decision on all slots to be allocated for the coming season. [One assumes horsetrading then begins.]
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Old May 16, 16, 8:23 pm
  #211  
 
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Originally Posted by brabb12 View Post
. Oh maybe I had it backwards on the aiports. What do you think of the chances of them adding a NGO flight also?
I'd be shocked if AA added a NGO flight. If JAL is to restart NGO-Mainland US service, it'll be LAX-NGO. It's a testament to the local market of DTW that DL is able to support a NGO flight alone without connections on the NGO end.
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Old May 16, 16, 8:51 pm
  #212  
 
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
I'd be shocked if AA added a NGO flight. If JAL is to restart NGO-Mainland US service, it'll be LAX-NGO. It's a testament to the local market of DTW that DL is able to support a NGO flight alone without connections on the NGO end.
Agree that this would be a longshot. Unless AA picks up on a lot of their HND traffic going to intra-Japan destinations, it seems unlikely that they'd focus on anythhing other than TYO. After all, we all remember what happened to the KIX flight.
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Old May 16, 16, 9:27 pm
  #213  
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
It's a testament to the local market of DTW that DL is able to support a NGO flight alone without connections on the NGO end.
More a testament to those likely being the two largest nexus points of a massive global industry . If Toyota wasn't all over the NGO area, that flight simply wouldn't exist.
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Old May 16, 16, 9:38 pm
  #214  
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Originally Posted by brabb12 View Post
do you think they would upgrade DFW to NRT to a 77W? If they are awarded a HND slot?
IMO, no. DFW-NRT isn't as premium-heavy a route as is LAX-HND. If AA is awarded DFW-HND, the AA/JL alliance will no longer need three daily DFW-NRT flights, and I expect that one daily with a craptacular 260-289 seat 772 will be plenty on the AA side.

NH currently flies LAX-HND with a 4-class, 250 seat 77W with 8F, 52J, 24W/PE and 166Y. And that's with overnight flight times.

AA is incredibly proud of its 91% load factor on LAX-HND during its first two months, but that's evidence that it's using a too-small (and too premium-lite) airplane. AA has but 28 inferior J seats while NH has 60 premium seats on the same route.

As far as I know, NH does not have an AA-like generosity in the upgrade department, so either NH is selling a lot of premium seats on LAX-HND or it's losing its shirt. For the past year, NH has a load factor over 80% on its LAX-HND flight.

Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
Personally, I think if they receive DFW-HND, an upgauge to a 77W is definitely a possibility with the othe DFW-NRT flight becoming a Dreamliner flight. AA is switching one DFW-NRT flight to a 289 seat reconfigured 772, leaving one flight selling F. Maybe I'm overestimating the yield potential of flying into HND and the Japanese market is no longer viable for AA to be offering F, letting JAL pick up the tab.
I don't see DFW-NRT needing a 77W, given that DFW-NRT features just 42 O&D PDEW. A 772 to HND, a 772 to NRT and the JL 787 should be plenty of capacity.

Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
AA is planning on 787-8 for daytime LAX-HND and a 260 seat 772 for DFW-HND. When the 77W was first announced, it was announced NRT, HKG, LHR, and GRU would see these aircraft. However, that was before the decline of the Yen. But Japan's economic condition is leaps and bounds ahead of what Brazil is going through right now. Personally, if I was one of AA's lawyers lobbying for the two daytime HND slots, I would have advised applying for both utilising 77Ws due to their premium nature. But, as we've seen, aircraft in the applications does not translate to aircraft actually being operated on the route. Long term, I don't see a 787-8 on LAX-HND or a 260 seat 772 on DFW-HND, rather a mix of 787-9/A350-900 and possibly 77Ws if the yields are sufficient, which again I may be overestimating.
NH currently flies more than twice as many premium seats each day between LAX and HND. AA's Pacific yields and unit revenues are in the toilet, perhaps because it's not selling as many premium tickets.

28 premium seats might be sufficient on a CLT-Europe A333, but it's clearly insufficient on LAX-HND.

Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
I'd be shocked if AA added a NGO flight. If JAL is to restart NGO-Mainland US service, it'll be LAX-NGO. It's a testament to the local market of DTW that DL is able to support a NGO flight alone without connections on the NGO end.
With Toyota moving 3,000+ white collar jobs from Torrance to Plano, and another 1,000+ jobs from NY and KY to Plano, the time may be right for DFW-NGO. Easy connections to SAT, large corporate base at DFW, and a gigantic hub to help fill the plane with connections from another 150+ cities.
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Old May 16, 16, 10:16 pm
  #215  
 
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Originally Posted by brewdog11 View Post
Agree that this would be a longshot. Unless AA picks up on a lot of their HND traffic going to intra-Japan destinations, it seems unlikely that they'd focus on anythhing other than TYO. After all, we all remember what happened to the KIX flight.
. Lol. Yeah that didn't last long. Same with the NGO flight around the same time. FAIL
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Old May 16, 16, 10:58 pm
  #216  
 
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Originally Posted by CNMAZ View Post
We had a reservation to HND for next February, they have changed the departure times to 11:35am LAX-HND and 6:55pm HND-LAX.
I received the schedule change email yesterday for my December LAX-HND flight.
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Old Jun 21, 16, 7:54 pm
  #217  
 
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I'm flying AA27 and AA26. Wondering where to park. Across from terminal 4 or TBIT?

I assume AA27 departs from terminal 4 and AA26 arrives to TBIT. Is that correct?

ERQ
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Old Jun 21, 16, 11:28 pm
  #218  
 
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Originally Posted by ERQTraveler View Post
I'm flying AA27 and AA26. Wondering where to park. Across from terminal 4 or TBIT?

I assume AA27 departs from terminal 4 and AA26 arrives to TBIT. Is that correct?

ERQ
Every time I've flown this route it's left from Gate 41 at LAX, arrived/departed from Gate 106 at HND and then arrived at TBIT back at LAX.
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Old Jun 22, 16, 7:11 am
  #219  
 
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Originally Posted by ERQTraveler View Post
I'm flying AA27 and AA26. Wondering where to park. Across from terminal 4 or TBIT?

I assume AA27 departs from terminal 4 and AA26 arrives to TBIT. Is that correct?

ERQ
It changes all the time depending on gates available. I've seen it depart and arrive from both. But for arriving you'll always end up at TBIT since if the plane parks at T4 it means you'll go through the underground connector from T4 to TBIT to do customs and immigrations.

Last edited by Reikon; Jun 22, 16 at 7:33 am
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Old Jun 22, 16, 10:09 am
  #220  
 
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Thank you FightOnFlyer and Reikon.

I'll park across from TBIT given I'll end up there for border control and customs.

ERQ
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Old Jun 23, 16, 3:55 pm
  #221  
 
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AA DFW - HND / Haneda (Dallas Morning News)

I was reading on Dallas Morning news that said AA is applying for DFW to Haneda airport. That makes sense since companies like Toyota are moving to dfw area and would be easy for execs to travel. What do you think?
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Old Jun 23, 16, 4:30 pm
  #222  
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"In its filing, Fort Worth-based American touted the connectivity from D/FW airport to 104 U.S. cities and the growth or relocation of Japanese companies like Toyota in North Texas. The company proposed using a 247-passenger Boeing 777-200 on the D/FW route, which would depart at 10:55 a.m. and arrive at Haneda at 3:30 p.m. the following day."

Link to April 4, 2016 Dallas Morning News Aviation Blog article.
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Old Jun 23, 16, 6:53 pm
  #223  
 
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Originally Posted by JDiver View Post
"In its filing, Fort Worth-based American touted the connectivity from D/FW airport to 104 U.S. cities and the growth or relocation of Japanese companies like Toyota in North Texas. The company proposed using a 247-passenger Boeing 777-200 on the D/FW route, which would depart at 10:55 a.m. and arrive at Haneda at 3:30 p.m. the following day."

Link to April 4, 2016 Dallas Morning News Aviation Blog article.
Jdiver, this is an updated article regarding DFW to Haneda

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/h...even-close.ece

Last edited by JDiver; Jun 23, 16 at 9:53 pm Reason: Add url tags to sctivate
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Old Jun 23, 16, 10:52 pm
  #224  
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Originally Posted by dallaspopo View Post
Jdiver, this is an updated article regarding DFW to Haneda

http://www.dallasnews.com/business/h...even-close.ece
Thank you.

As DFW-HND was already being discussed in this thread, we have merged. I've also added Dallas Morning News links to the Wikipost.

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Old Jun 25, 16, 8:50 am
  #225  
 
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For AA26, what is the earliest I can check the luggage with an agent at HND?

Trying to plan my arrival appropriately. I plan to tour the city during the day and then head to the airport late at night for a late dinner and a shower. I understand there are restaurants pre-security and showers at JAL lounge. (I believe I have access due to class of service.)

ERQ
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