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AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

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Old Jun 23, 16, 2:50 pm   -   Wikipost
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AA Begin Daily 787-8 LAX-HND Service 11 Feb 2016, DFW-HND on application

FORT WORTH, Texas, Nov. 4, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines will offer customers daily, year-round, nonstop service to Tokyo's Haneda Airport (HND) from its trans-Pacific gateway at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) beginning Feb. 11, 2016. Customers can book travel on the new route starting Sunday, Nov. 8. American recently secured takeoff and landing time slots at Haneda Airport from the Japanese aviation authorities, which will allow the commencement of the flight.

The new service will operate on the following daily schedule (all times local):

LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m. the previous day

Link
Link to Dallas Morning News article on DFW-HND 23 Jun 2016 (comparing DFW vs. MSP for Haneda service)

Link to Dallas a Morning News Aviation Blog article on DFW-HND application, 4 Apr 2016

Please see this archived thread for posts relating to AA statement of intent and delays.

Previously (as posted by Exec_Plat), wandering_fred and ashill:

DOT Docket is DOT-OST-2010-0018
AA's application to fly LAX-HND (and motion to transfer DL's authority to fly SEA-LAX) is document DOT-OST-2010-0018-0384

On June 14, 2015, the DOT ruled that Delta would retain the HND slot for use on SEA-HND with dormancy conditions that require Delta to operate the flight every day of the year.

On June 17, 2015, Delta notified the DOT in a letter that it would "determined that it is not commercially feasible to operate the slots allocated to Delta for Seattle-Haneda service on a consistent daily basis year-round". The last Delta SEA-HND flight will operate on September 30, 2015. Delta will return the slots to the DOT on October 1, 2015, at which point the slots will automatically revert to American.

American service on LAX-HND could begin (err rather could have begun) as early as October 1, 2015.

While DOT has granted rights to AA, the actual time slots in which AA can arrive and depart HND are subject to negotiation with HND and other carriers.

- It is not clear that DL had slots every day of the year, and in fact DL may have been required to surrender the slots on August 15, 2015.
- AA needs to secure daily slots for HND, however the annual winter 2015 (W15) slot conference was on June 23, 2015, only a few days after DL notified DOT they would surrender the route.
- It is unknown when AA will acquire new time slots. Purportedly the IATA slot conference for S15 will be 10-12 November. Going by the published calendar Oct 8 begins this activity: https://www.iata.org/events/Document...activities.pdf
-There may be some motion with daytime slots (Aviationweek):
The U.S. Transportation Department (DOT) recently briefed U.S. carriers on the Japanese proposal, several people familiar with the matter told Aviation Daily. As it is currently understood, the proposal would shift some of the slots available to U.S. carriers to daytime hours. It may also include one additional slot pair, which would likely not be for a daily flight
- Per the published guidelines, the SAL Deadline is October 29, 2015, at which time the airport shall have made their initial decision on all slots to be allocated for the coming season. [One assumes horsetrading then begins.]
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Old May 11, 16, 12:36 pm
  #196  
 
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Delta is already selling their new day-time departure flight HND-LAX tickets (10/31~).
Do you know when AA will start selling it?
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Old May 13, 16, 10:37 am
  #197  
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The airlines filed their replies yesterday; here is AA's reply:

https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf

Here is the complete docket:

https://www.regulations.gov/#!docket...-OST-2016-0048

AA argued that all three existing west coast flights be continued (UA SFO and both LAX flights) with priority given to AA's LAX flight.
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Old May 15, 16, 8:04 am
  #198  
 
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We had a reservation to HND for next February, they have changed the departure times to 11:35am LAX-HND and 6:55pm HND-LAX.
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Old May 15, 16, 11:57 am
  #199  
 
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Originally Posted by CNMAZ View Post
We had a reservation to HND for next February, they have changed the departure times to 11:35am LAX-HND and 6:55pm HND-LAX.
Nice.. New times seem to be:

LAX to HND: 11:35 AM with a 4:35 PM arrival
HND to LAX: 6:55 PM with a 11:45 AM arrival

For many, much more convenient for connections onward at both ends, not to mention for business travelers to and from Tokyo itself.

Arrive in time for a proper dinner and a good nights sleep, and depart at a time allowing for meetings until 3 PM or so that day.
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Old May 16, 16, 7:48 am
  #200  
 
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Optimised for connections I agree, but certainly not preferred for Tokyo based business travellers. A lot of wasted time on the trip and a lack of efficiency. A late evening overnight departure to Asia arriving in the early morning maximizes productivity- but not great for aircraft utilization or connections. Tokyo has always had suboptimal timing compared with Hong Kong or Taipei due to curfews at Narita. But as everyone has bad schedules its not a competitive disadvantage.
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Old May 16, 16, 8:48 am
  #201  
 
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Originally Posted by teemuflyer View Post
Nice.. New times seem to be:

LAX to HND: 11:35 AM with a 4:35 PM arrival
HND to LAX: 6:55 PM with a 11:45 AM arrival
I don't think the schedule set in stone yet (for all US daytime HND flights) - the IATA NW 2016-17 slot conference has yet to take place. Having that said, the 18:55 departure is welcomed - I prefer that over the 17:30-ish departure ex-NRT.
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Old May 16, 16, 11:51 am
  #202  
 
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Originally Posted by teemuflyer View Post

LAX to HND: 11:35 AM with a 4:35 PM arrival
HND to LAX: 6:55 PM with a 11:45 AM arrival
With these times, hard to see LAX/NRT continuing as they are around the same time.
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Old May 16, 16, 12:16 pm
  #203  
 
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Originally Posted by phranktzi View Post
With these times, hard to see LAX/NRT continuing as they are around the same time.
They still may keep it, there are a lot of people who still use narita to connect to other locations in Asia. But for how much longer is the question. HND is good for people who want to go to small cities within Japan.
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Old May 16, 16, 1:07 pm
  #204  
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Originally Posted by phranktzi View Post
With these times, hard to see LAX/NRT continuing as they are around the same time.
Delta Air Lines and some Flyertalkers have been predicting the demise of LAX-NRT for quite some time, but it continues to operate. While nothing is cast in stone, AA's recent statements appear to bode well for the NRT flight:

Originally Posted by AA in HND Application April 21, 2016
Moreover, American continues to operate its service from LAX to Narita, contrary to Delta’s insistence that American would “drop its own LAX-NRT service” upon being awarded a Haneda slot-pair.
https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf (page 12 of .pdf)

Originally Posted by brabb12 View Post
They still may keep it, there are a lot of people who still use narita to connect to other locations in Asia. But for how much longer is the question. HND is good for people who want to go to small cities within Japan.
I suspect that AA's LAX-NRT remains, as DL announced last month that its LAX-NRT flight would end in October, when its HND flight begins flying durng the daytime. By all indications, AA is not going to blink at LAX and has already outlasted DL on this route. I expect further longhaul reductions by DL and maybe UA at LAX unless those airlines want to bleed money fighting AA at a hub they cannot dominate.

At DFW, AA currently runs double daily plus the JAL daily flight to NRT. AA said that even if it wins DFW-HND, at least two of the DFW-NRT flights (of the current three) will remain.
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Old May 16, 16, 3:19 pm
  #205  
 
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
Delta Air Lines and some Flyertalkers have been predicting the demise of LAX-NRT for quite some time, but it continues to operate. While nothing is cast in stone, AA's recent statements appear to bode well for the NRT flight:



https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf (page 12 of .pdf)



I suspect that AA's LAX-NRT remains, as DL announced last month that its LAX-NRT flight would end in October, when its HND flight begins flying durng the daytime. By all indications, AA is not going to blink at LAX and has already outlasted DL on this route. I expect further longhaul reductions by DL and maybe UA at LAX unless those airlines want to bleed money fighting AA at a hub they cannot dominate.

At DFW, AA currently runs double daily plus the JAL daily flight to NRT. AA said that even if it wins DFW-HND, at least two of the DFW-NRT flights (of the current three) will remain.
do you think they would upgrade DFW to NRT to a 77W? If they are awarded a HND slot?
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Old May 16, 16, 3:46 pm
  #206  
 
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Originally Posted by ericcheung View Post
Optimised for connections I agree, but certainly not preferred for Tokyo based business travellers. A lot of wasted time on the trip and a lack of efficiency. A late evening overnight departure to Asia arriving in the early morning maximizes productivity- but not great for aircraft utilization or connections. Tokyo has always had suboptimal timing compared with Hong Kong or Taipei due to curfews at Narita. But as everyone has bad schedules its not a competitive disadvantage.
I, for one, am in the camp that if I arrive early in the morning to Asia from the US will not maximize my productivity, since I will not schedule meetings for that day, rather get adjusted to the new time zone. Also, getting an extremely early check in for one's hotel is not always guaranteed, so waiting to check in, take a shower etc. will be workwise, unproductive, IMHO.
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Old May 16, 16, 5:36 pm
  #207  
 
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Originally Posted by brabb12 View Post
do you think they would upgrade DFW to NRT to a 77W? If they are awarded a HND slot?
Personally, I think if they receive DFW-HND, an upgauge to a 77W is definitely a possibility with the othe DFW-NRT flight becoming a Dreamliner flight. AA is switching one DFW-NRT flight to a 289 seat reconfigured 772, leaving one flight selling F. Maybe I'm overestimating the yield potential of flying into HND and the Japanese market is no longer viable for AA to be offering F, letting JAL pick up the tab.
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Old May 16, 16, 6:01 pm
  #208  
 
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
Personally, I think if they receive DFW-HND, an upgauge to a 77W is definitely a possibility with the othe DFW-NRT flight becoming a Dreamliner flight. AA is switching one DFW-NRT flight to a 289 seat reconfigured 772, leaving one flight selling F. Maybe I'm overestimating the yield potential of flying into HND and the Japanese market is no longer viable for AA to be offering F, letting JAL pick up the tab.
Toyota executives are already asking JAL to upgrade to a 777 so they can have first class. The problem is JAL doesn't have anymore 777s. Also isn't the HND proposed flight going to be a 787?
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Old May 16, 16, 6:25 pm
  #209  
 
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Originally Posted by brabb12 View Post
Toyota executives are already asking JAL to upgrade to a 777 so they can have first class. The problem is JAL doesn't have anymore 777s. Also isn't the HND proposed flight going to be a 787?
AA is planning on 787-8 for daytime LAX-HND and a 260 seat 772 for DFW-HND. When the 77W was first announced, it was announced NRT, HKG, LHR, and GRU would see these aircraft. However, that was before the decline of the Yen. But Japan's economic condition is leaps and bounds ahead of what Brazil is going through right now. Personally, if I was one of AA's lawyers lobbying for the two daytime HND slots, I would have advised applying for both utilising 77Ws due to their premium nature. But, as we've seen, aircraft in the applications does not translate to aircraft actually being operated on the route. Long term, I don't see a 787-8 on LAX-HND or a 260 seat 772 on DFW-HND, rather a mix of 787-9/A350-900 and possibly 77Ws if the yields are sufficient, which again I may be overestimating.
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Old May 16, 16, 6:34 pm
  #210  
 
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
AA is planning on 787-8 for daytime LAX-HND and a 260 seat 772 for DFW-HND. When the 77W was first announced, it was announced NRT, HKG, LHR, and GRU would see these aircraft. However, that was before the decline of the Yen. But Japan's economic condition is leaps and bounds ahead of what Brazil is going through right now. Personally, if I was one of AA's lawyers lobbying for the two daytime HND slots, I would have advised applying for both utilising 77Ws due to their premium nature. But, as we've seen, aircraft in the applications does not translate to aircraft actually being operated on the route. Long term, I don't see a 787-8 on LAX-HND or a 260 seat 772 on DFW-HND, rather a mix of 787-9/A350-900 and possibly 77Ws if the yields are sufficient, which again I may be overestimating.
. Oh maybe I had it backwards on the aiports. What do you think of the chances of them adding a NGO flight also?
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