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AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

AA Daily LAX-HND Service Feb 2016 w/ 787-8, applies DFW-HND

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Old Jun 23, 16, 2:50 pm   -   Wikipost
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AA Begin Daily 787-8 LAX-HND Service 11 Feb 2016, DFW-HND on application

FORT WORTH, Texas, Nov. 4, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- American Airlines will offer customers daily, year-round, nonstop service to Tokyo's Haneda Airport (HND) from its trans-Pacific gateway at Los Angeles International Airport (LAX) beginning Feb. 11, 2016. Customers can book travel on the new route starting Sunday, Nov. 8. American recently secured takeoff and landing time slots at Haneda Airport from the Japanese aviation authorities, which will allow the commencement of the flight.

The new service will operate on the following daily schedule (all times local):

LAX-HND
AA27
Departs LAX at 6 p.m.
Arrives at HND at 11 p.m. the following day

HND-LAX
AA26
Departs HND at 1:30 a.m.
Arrives at LAX at 6:20 p.m. the previous day

Link
Link to Dallas Morning News article on DFW-HND 23 Jun 2016 (comparing DFW vs. MSP for Haneda service)

Link to Dallas a Morning News Aviation Blog article on DFW-HND application, 4 Apr 2016

Please see this archived thread for posts relating to AA statement of intent and delays.

Previously (as posted by Exec_Plat), wandering_fred and ashill:

DOT Docket is DOT-OST-2010-0018
AA's application to fly LAX-HND (and motion to transfer DL's authority to fly SEA-LAX) is document DOT-OST-2010-0018-0384

On June 14, 2015, the DOT ruled that Delta would retain the HND slot for use on SEA-HND with dormancy conditions that require Delta to operate the flight every day of the year.

On June 17, 2015, Delta notified the DOT in a letter that it would "determined that it is not commercially feasible to operate the slots allocated to Delta for Seattle-Haneda service on a consistent daily basis year-round". The last Delta SEA-HND flight will operate on September 30, 2015. Delta will return the slots to the DOT on October 1, 2015, at which point the slots will automatically revert to American.

American service on LAX-HND could begin (err rather could have begun) as early as October 1, 2015.

While DOT has granted rights to AA, the actual time slots in which AA can arrive and depart HND are subject to negotiation with HND and other carriers.

- It is not clear that DL had slots every day of the year, and in fact DL may have been required to surrender the slots on August 15, 2015.
- AA needs to secure daily slots for HND, however the annual winter 2015 (W15) slot conference was on June 23, 2015, only a few days after DL notified DOT they would surrender the route.
- It is unknown when AA will acquire new time slots. Purportedly the IATA slot conference for S15 will be 10-12 November. Going by the published calendar Oct 8 begins this activity: https://www.iata.org/events/Document...activities.pdf
-There may be some motion with daytime slots (Aviationweek):
The U.S. Transportation Department (DOT) recently briefed U.S. carriers on the Japanese proposal, several people familiar with the matter told Aviation Daily. As it is currently understood, the proposal would shift some of the slots available to U.S. carriers to daytime hours. It may also include one additional slot pair, which would likely not be for a daily flight
- Per the published guidelines, the SAL Deadline is October 29, 2015, at which time the airport shall have made their initial decision on all slots to be allocated for the coming season. [One assumes horsetrading then begins.]
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Old Feb 23, 16, 7:24 am
  #166  
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
They just should fly BOS-HND. Let those LAX snobs go pound sand.
Doesn't remotely have the passenger traffic to justify it.
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Old Feb 23, 16, 10:53 am
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Originally Posted by Dieuwer View Post
They just should fly BOS-HND. Let those LAX snobs go pound sand.
Right. Last I checked, LA is about 5x the size of Boston and can support the O&D traffic.
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Old Feb 23, 16, 11:29 am
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Originally Posted by SNA_Flyer View Post
Right. Last I checked, LA is about 5x the size of Boston and can support the O&D traffic.
Also LA/OC has the biggest Japanese population in the US. That right there is more than enough reasons to have as many flights as we do to Japan.
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Old Feb 23, 16, 2:38 pm
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This article says
The ministry plans to allocate four of the slots to All Nippon Airways Co. (ANA) by May to give the carrier a competitive advantage over Japan Airlines Co. (JAL), which has reconstructed its business with public funds after filing for bankruptcy protection.
If that's accurate, that would be a rather striking blow to the AA/JL joint venture. Anyone know if it is?

If so, I assume JL would drop HND-HNL and leave AA/JL with LAX, SFO, and hoping that AA gets JFK and/or ORD out of the allocation of the US carrier HND slots.
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Old Feb 23, 16, 3:04 pm
  #170  
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Originally Posted by ashill View Post
This article says


If that's accurate, that would be a rather striking blow to the AA/JL joint venture. Anyone know if it is?

If so, I assume JL would drop HND-HNL and leave AA/JL with LAX, SFO, and hoping that AA gets JFK and/or ORD out of the allocation of the US carrier HND slots.
It is likely to happen that way. JAL was restructured with public support, and have restrictions placed on their expansions until 2017 for that reason. All speculation so far has been that it will be a 4-2 distribution in favour of NH.
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Old Mar 28, 16, 12:58 pm
  #171  
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The four existing flights to Haneda will temporarily be assigned daytime departures thru the Winter 2016-17 season, but DOT is holding a route allocation case to determine which airlines get them permanently, in addition to the fifth daytime frequency and the one new nighttime frequency:

https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf

This gives a procedure by which AA, DL and UA can argue that HA should not get a permanent daytime slot for its Japanese beach tourist flight, but instead should be allocated the one new overnight frequency.
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Old Mar 28, 16, 9:08 pm
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Originally Posted by FWAAA View Post
The four existing flights to Haneda will temporarily be assigned daytime departures thru the Winter 2016-17 season, but DOT is holding a route allocation case to determine which airlines get them permanently, in addition to the fifth daytime frequency and the one new nighttime frequency:

https://www.regulations.gov/contentS...ontentType=pdf

This gives a procedure by which AA, DL and UA can argue that HA should not get a permanent daytime slot for its Japanese beach tourist flight, but instead should be allocated the one new overnight frequency.
Good call. HAL was the only airline able to make the current timings work due to Hawai'i's geography. With DOT's rejection of KOA-HND twice for the same reasons, I do not see why they would grant a prime daytime slot to a primarily tourist destination. With two open daytime slots, DL is definitely getting one of them with AA/UA getting to fight over the second. Since ANA is getting four daytime slots to the US and JAL only receiving two, AA has a pretty good case for another daytime flight. Question is where do they apply.

With the move to daytime slots, not sure if AA will continue LAX-NRT. JonNYC said AA was going to end LAX-NRT some time this year. Daytime LAX-HND makes LAX-NRT redundant, especially with AA adding Asia flights out of LAX. Maybe an upgauge to a 77W to capture as much high yielding traffic into TYO? Probably a better use of the aircraft than having it burn cash on flights to GRU. And if AA is granted a second HND flight, what happens to AA's NRT operation? If they receive DFW-HND, would AA keep ORD-NRT or just hand it over to JAL and end NRT operations altogether? AA seems to be content at the moment allowing JAL handle JFK-NRT twice a day.
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Old Mar 28, 16, 10:38 pm
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post

With the move to daytime slots, not sure if AA will continue LAX-NRT. JonNYC said AA was going to end LAX-NRT some time this year. Daytime LAX-HND makes LAX-NRT redundant, especially with AA adding Asia flights out of LAX. Maybe an upgauge to a 77W to capture as much high yielding traffic into TYO? Probably a better use of the aircraft than having it burn cash on flights to GRU. And if AA is granted a second HND flight, what happens to AA's NRT operation? If they receive DFW-HND, would AA keep ORD-NRT or just hand it over to JAL and end NRT operations altogether? AA seems to be content at the moment allowing JAL handle JFK-NRT twice a day.
AA has two daily DFW NRT, so one additional slot is not enough to end the NRT operations from DFW. Would it make sense to split the two, or more sense to let ORD go to HND?
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Old Mar 28, 16, 10:47 pm
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
AA has two daily DFW NRT, so one additional slot is not enough to end the NRT operations from DFW. Would it make sense to split the two, or more sense to let ORD go to HND?
With AA starting DFW-ICN/PEK/PVG/HKG over the past few years and JAL restarting DFW-NRT, seems excess capacity on DFW-TYO. Now if AA were to place a 77W on DFW-HND if approved and JAL goes daily on DFW-NRT, its slightly less than AA's current schedule, while significantly more fuel/cost efficient. However, a ORD-HND application wouldn't shock me. I figure UA will either go for EWR/ORD-HND, (sorry IAD). Likewise, DL will very likely go for JFK-HND but DTW/ATL-HND are definitely distinct possibilities.
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Old Mar 28, 16, 10:49 pm
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
With AA starting DFW-ICN/PEK/PVG/HKG over the past few years and JAL restarting DFW-NRT, seems excess capacity on DFW-TYO. Now if AA were to place a 77W on DFW-HND if approved and JAL goes daily on DFW-NRT, its slightly less than AA's current schedule, while significantly more fuel/cost efficient.
JAL has already gone daily to DFW, as of the summer schedule that started this Sunday.
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Old Mar 28, 16, 10:51 pm
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Originally Posted by CPH-Flyer View Post
JAL has already gone daily to DFW, as of the summer schedule that started this Sunday.
Whoops, missed that. That's quite a bit of capacity for DFW-NRT, especially with the state of the Japanese economy.
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Old Mar 29, 16, 7:20 am
  #177  
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Originally Posted by Longboater View Post
Whoops, missed that. That's quite a bit of capacity for DFW-NRT, especially with the state of the Japanese economy.
It does help that the economy on this end is quite strong still; Houston is taking the brunt of the oil price decline, Dallas/Austin/San Antonio are a bit more diversified.

LAX-HND seems to be arriving mostly on time at least. Wonder how the loads are doing?
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Old Mar 29, 16, 10:33 pm
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^Anecdotal, but flew this about ten days ago both directions and J was totally full each way. Big cabin and mini cabin. Didn't get a chance to look at coach.
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Old Mar 30, 16, 10:23 pm
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Originally Posted by Hengilas View Post
^Anecdotal, but flew this about ten days ago both directions and J was totally full each way. Big cabin and mini cabin. Didn't get a chance to look at coach.
The loads were overbooked in coach for yesterday. oversold by about 10 seats.

Its doing much better than the NRT to LAX.
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Old Mar 30, 16, 10:30 pm
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Originally Posted by Hengilas View Post
^Anecdotal, but flew this about ten days ago both directions and J was totally full each way. Big cabin and mini cabin. Didn't get a chance to look at coach.
If you're flying up front you don't bother looking back. That's kinda the reason you pay for it
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