gloreglabert

No, I thought the retrofit was complete, TBH. I hadn't read any of this thread until yesterday. If I had, I would have done as you suggested and booked UA or DL instead. I haven't flown on an AA 767 in quite some time.

I would've rather been back in MCE (and saved a whole pile of cash) than up front on this trip as it occurred, given that I didn't get any sleep in biz anyways. Obviously, getting what I thought I was paying for would have been better than both.

The seatmap is an advertisement. It's not a guarantee, sure, but it's there as information about the flight. They don't attach a seatmap of a random plane just for fun. While swaps can always happen, at least on this route it seems swaps are routine rather than the exception.

I'm not sure why multiple people seem to be taking the position that the buyer ought to be suspicious of the seatmap. I've had equipment swaps before and understand that they can happen. But the implicit (and reasonable) assumption is that the airline *intends* to fly the advertised equipment. That does not seem to be the case here.

rjw242

That's a stretch, if not entirely incorrect. This is an actual advertisement:

AA's seat maps are typically encountered only in the booking process and say nothing themselves about whether seats are lie-flat.

eponymous_coward

So why were you "watching the seatmap like a hawk since booking" if you were under the impression the conversions were complete?

(Not accusatory, just curious. Paranoia is well-founded when it comes to airlines, I suppose.)

It boils down to this: F to Hawaii costs way less a lot of the time than C to Europe, and AA is committing to lie-flat to Europe to be on par with BA, AB and IB. They have made no such commitment for Hawaii.

So if anyone's going to get the short end of the stick on a 763 equipment swap, it's going to be the Hawaii pax, not Europe pax.

nbirnbaum2

Not sure what they did. Its possible. 2 people were assigned to the same 1st class seat

GlobalMatt

Not entirely true, you actually are protected in the event of an equipment swap. Lucky spoke about it in one of his posts earlier this year, and what to do if you have an equipment swap, as according to AA's rules, it qualifies as a schedule change.

You can read that write-up here.

McSam18

Also count me in the camp of preferring the NGBC to the new seat. I find it to be an all around better seat. It's preference, but I can't believe the amount of people that complain about not getting the new seat. I hate it and would try to avoid it in the future.

cmd320

Add me onto that list as well. The NGBC seat is by no means good, however the new seat is really bad. At least the NGBC seat is somewhat padded and has decent positions other than fully reclined (ski slope). The new seats are uncomfortably hard and outside of full flat, I'm not comfortable in any position. My feet can't even touch the ottoman unless the seat is in the full flat position. The tray tables are tiny and flimsy, and the seat in bed mode is very narrow and tight.

gloreglabert

Well, I thought the conversion was complete, but wasn't completely sure as I didn't verify it (obviously, since it's not true). And an equipment swap is always a possibility (though that route may be too long for a narrowbody). I'll pretty much watch the seatmap as a rule on any flight where I really care about the hard product.

Everyone preferring the NGBC seat says the only thing they prefer about the new seat is the bed. Unfortunately, as I had 8+ hours of domestic travel following the redeye (and had been up since 6am that day), the anticipated bed was the *only* thing I really cared about. My wife especially cannot sleep on an angle-flat.

N1120A

It isn't just international tariffs. This is in AA's schedule change rules generally and advisories to travel agents (who have the least power and are threatened with debit memos). Aircraft swaps, even ones that don't have seating issues, are treated as major schedule changes.

There isn't anything else in the fleet they can use that doesn't have flat beds or isn't getting them. There is nothing smaller/more poorly configured that can make DFW-Hawaii.

The recline difference is about that, but that really isn't the biggest problem. Greater issues are aisle access and ergonomics.

cmd320

The 757 can theoretically make it. They currently fly even longer flights to Europe with various airlines.

RupertC

I appreciate that you are not specifically referencing AA's 757 fleet but...

For TATL vs Hawaii in J, you are very welcome to take the last of the crappy unconfigured LUS 757 ETOPS birds in exchange for the LAA 763 with NGBC sloped seats.

The travel experiences in both planes is less than premium, but I would prefer angled lie-flat seat to any non-flat surface seat.

ijgordon

Haven't been on the 763 flat bed, though I'll be on DL's version next year which I think is similar, and it's generally considered their worst product.

I think we all need to get violins out for the folks complaining about getting NGBC. If you can't sleep in them, then you're not using the seat properly. Or you just can't sleep on planes period.

I mean OP could have been on the UA 777 Hawaii configuration, which I believe flies to IAH, DEN and SFO, or worse - DL's 763 domestic.

jordyn

I guess the question is does the UA 777 Hawaii config routinely get subbed in for the 764 that UA flies from EWR. If so, that would be somewhat analogous to what people are complaining about here. On the other hand, if you should up for your LAX-HNL flight scheduled on an AA A321 and ended up on a UA 777 instead, I imagine most people would be pretty happy.

I agree that AA doesn't promise real flat beds on this route so you're taking a gamble when you book on these flights, but at the same time I don't think it's helpful to tell people that they're just wrong for being unhappy when it happens because you happen to have a different preference or because other airlines do something entirely different.

ijgordon

I was merely alluding to the original complainant who said he would have just booked UA or DL if he'd known AA might have an equipment substitution.

jordyn

That's my whole point, though--if you fly on routes with beds on DL and UA, you get flat beds 100% of the time. With AA not so much.

The fact that UA and DL also have products without flat beds has as much relevance as pointing out that AA flies A321s from the West Coast (and who knows what sorts of awful equipment on the LUS routes). It's a true statement, but there doesn't seem any risk that you'll book on DL or UA thinking you're going to get a flat bed and end up with a recliner seat instead.