Apr 9, 2014, 10:25 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
AA Ends International Award Free N. America Gateway Stopover
As of April 8, 2014 - no prior notice given.
As of April 8, 2014 - no prior notice given.
● As of 8 April 2014, AA North America to international destination awards no longer offer a voluntary stopover at the N. A. international gateway.
● Stopovers are defined as more than 4 hours for itineraries using an award within/between the U.S./Canada/PR/USVI and more than 24 hours for itineraries using a Mexico, Caribbean or other international award as of 8 Jan 2014. (JonNYC).
● Awards ticketed prior to April 8 can add or change a stopover. Refer the AAgent to the "All Partner Award Guidelines" document which can be found on jetnet at Webref-> jetnet-> aawrcontent-> res-> resstaff-> internal-> AADAP. Giving this to the agent should be enough to find it. This is from the version dated 7/22/2014 with credit to JonNYC:
Tickets issued prior to April 8, 2014, free international stopovers on international awards are allowed at the North American gateway.
●For stopover purposes only, the North American gateway is defined as the passenger's first point of arrival or last point of departure in the U.S./Canada/PR/USVI/Mexico
●Stopovers within/between all other regions require additional awards
●Changes or adding a stopover to this ticket will require a call to Tariff for PQR prior to setting up reissue
●For stopover purposes only, the North American gateway is defined as the passenger's first point of arrival or last point of departure in the U.S./Canada/PR/USVI/Mexico
●Stopovers within/between all other regions require additional awards
●Changes or adding a stopover to this ticket will require a call to Tariff for PQR prior to setting up reissue
Other topics that are related may be followed here:
. . . Wiki: AA Quietly Increases AAnytime Award Mileage Charges [8 Apr 2014]
. . . Oneworld Explorer Awards Eliminated -- Effective Immediately [8 Apr 2014]
. . . Wiki: Free Checked Bag / Baggage Changes as of 8 Apr 2014
. . . Angry about AAdvantage devaluation / vent / what can I do? (April 2014, consolidated)
AA ends North American Gateway Stopover for International Awards [8 Apr 2014]
Apr 14, 2014, 1:19 am
#61
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Sorry to be the bearer of sad tiding, but you need to have a look at this thread
<Mod note: removed circular URL, post merge>
<Mod note: removed circular URL, post merge>
Last edited by miamigrad; Apr 14, 2014 at 6:08 am
Apr 14, 2014, 9:32 pm
#63
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Apr 14, 2014, 10:03 pm
#64
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1) Limit the length of the stopover,
2) Or only make it available only for AAnytime awards or business and first,
3) Or make the stopover rules follow the published fare. I'm sure there are fares that still allow stopovers on US-Australia for example.
4) Or require a round trip plus some combination of the above.
Instead we got the axe.
Apr 14, 2014, 10:17 pm
#65
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But yours are good suggestions for ways to tighten the restrictions. Until I started reading the complaints about doing away with it, I had no idea this is how people were using the "stopover." I honestly thought it was "Let's stop and see Aunt Martha and Uncle George in Miami on our way home from London."
Apr 15, 2014, 4:18 am
#66
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The stopovers were only free at NA international gateways if the stopover was at an airport/city on a routing allowed under the published fare routing rule (which AA still has).
Mileage tickets are revenue tickets.
The word "cash" is the difference here. Or so it seems to me. AA is earning actual revenue on those tickets.
But yours are good suggestions for ways to tighten the restrictions. Until I started reading the complaints about doing away with it, I had no idea this is how people were using the "stopover." I honestly thought it was "Let's stop and see Aunt Martha and Uncle George in Miami on our way home from London."
But yours are good suggestions for ways to tighten the restrictions. Until I started reading the complaints about doing away with it, I had no idea this is how people were using the "stopover." I honestly thought it was "Let's stop and see Aunt Martha and Uncle George in Miami on our way home from London."
Apr 15, 2014, 10:36 am
#67
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Great idea-- let's just throw out every known, industry-defined, established definition we have here-- that'll make things much clearer.
Mileage tickets -are- "paid for," stipulated. They are NOT in any way, shape or form "revenue tickets" which are defined by everyone on the planet as tickets paid for with money.
Mileage tickets -are- "paid for," stipulated. They are NOT in any way, shape or form "revenue tickets" which are defined by everyone on the planet as tickets paid for with money.
Apr 15, 2014, 10:51 am
#68
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Great idea-- let's just throw out every known, industry-defined, established definition we have here-- that'll make things much clearer.
Mileage tickets -are- "paid for," stipulated. They are NOT in any way, shape or form "revenue tickets" which are defined by everyone on the planet as tickets paid for with money.
Mileage tickets -are- "paid for," stipulated. They are NOT in any way, shape or form "revenue tickets" which are defined by everyone on the planet as tickets paid for with money.
That said, clearly they are a different in important ways from regular revenue tickets paid for with cash.
Apr 15, 2014, 1:31 pm
#69
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Great idea-- let's just throw out every known, industry-defined, established definition we have here-- that'll make things much clearer.
Mileage tickets -are- "paid for," stipulated. They are NOT in any way, shape or form "revenue tickets" which are defined by everyone on the planet as tickets paid for with money.
Mileage tickets -are- "paid for," stipulated. They are NOT in any way, shape or form "revenue tickets" which are defined by everyone on the planet as tickets paid for with money.
Mileage tickets are not the only form of revenue tickets and not even anywhere close to the majority form of revenue tickets, but that is not a shock either. They are a relatively small subset of revenue tickets.
The US DOT calls mileage ticket passengers revenue passengers too:
Originally Posted by DOT
The following types of passengers are examples of revenue passengers: (1) Passengers traveling on publicly available tickets; (2) passengers traveling on frequent flyer awards; (3) passengers traveling on barter tickets; (4) infants traveling on confirmed-space tickets; (5) passengers traveling on vouchers as compensation for denied boarding or passengers traveling free in response to consumer complaints or claims; and (6) passengers traveling on preferential fares (Government, seamen, military, youth, student, etc.). This list is not exhaustive and is provided for illustrative purposes only.
Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 15, 2014 at 1:41 pm
Apr 15, 2014, 1:46 pm
#70
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Mileage tickets are revenue tickets. The settlement process for flown mileage ticket coupons for flights operated by partner airlines ought to make that clear to people who think about it. It's not like the partner airlines are generally flying other airlines' loyalty program customers for free. They too get revenue for it and cash settlement does take place from time to time. Also it helps to get familiar with the accounting practices of the airlines when it comes to mileage-related liabilities and revenue recognition practices related to mileage redemptions. For accounting and regulatory purposes, mileage tickets being considered revenue tickets shouldn't be a shocker.
Mileage tickets are not the only form of revenue tickets and not even anywhere close to the majority form of revenue tickets, but that is not a shock either. They are a relatively small subset of revenue tickets.
The US DOT calls mileage ticket passengers revenue passengers too:
ICAO and US DOT largely harmonized on this matter of definition.
Mileage tickets are not the only form of revenue tickets and not even anywhere close to the majority form of revenue tickets, but that is not a shock either. They are a relatively small subset of revenue tickets.
The US DOT calls mileage ticket passengers revenue passengers too:
ICAO and US DOT largely harmonized on this matter of definition.
Apr 15, 2014, 1:51 pm
#71
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I'm very sorry if I implied that awards are really the same as cash tickets. I didn't mean to start a debate about that. I was trying to say that if AA lets you make a connection on a seat that's unlikely to be sold, then I don't see how it makes much difference if they give you a stopover instead where you're put in some other seat that's also unlikely to be sold. I compared to cash tickets, because if airlines can manage stopovers for those fares, they should be able to manage and limit them for awards.
Even if I'm mistaken about that, it's not that relevant to my overall point which is that AA had several other ways to close the loophole yet still appear to be sensible. For whatever reason they chose not to do so. Other programs allow stopovers, so the argument about matching "industry standards" doesn't really make much sense. Other programs allow stopovers, so the argument about matching "industry standards" doesn't make much sense.
Even if I'm mistaken about that, it's not that relevant to my overall point which is that AA had several other ways to close the loophole yet still appear to be sensible. For whatever reason they chose not to do so. Other programs allow stopovers, so the argument about matching "industry standards" doesn't really make much sense. Other programs allow stopovers, so the argument about matching "industry standards" doesn't make much sense.
Last edited by rrgg; Apr 15, 2014 at 2:04 pm
Apr 15, 2014, 1:54 pm
#72
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The stopovers on (non-OWE) award tickets were only free if the stopover was at a NA gateway airport/city allowed as a point of travel on a publicly-available regular published fare.
Mileage tickets are revenue tickets and that isn't nonsense. If that is not relevant, it's not sparked by my post. Peace.
Mileage tickets are revenue tickets and that isn't nonsense. If that is not relevant, it's not sparked by my post. Peace.
Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 15, 2014 at 2:00 pm
Apr 15, 2014, 2:02 pm
#73
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That said, the rest is...well... I'm in the camp of "time to accept the new reality or take your business where ya' think it's more appreciated."
The no-notice aspect of the elimination of Explorer awards was really, really poorly thought-out. The rest of it, everyone I guess has their own view, but none of it bothers me personally all that much. And the elimination of the N.American gateway stopover, least of all-- I'd rather just pay for whatever amount of award I'm going to use and not subsidize other's more "creative" usage, personally. BIG YMMV, needless to say!
Apr 15, 2014, 2:05 pm
#74
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Mileage tickets are revenue tickets. The settlement process for flown mileage ticket coupons for flights operated by partner airlines ought to make that clear to people who think about it. It's not like the partner airlines are generally flying other airlines' loyalty program customers for free. They too get revenue for it and cash settlement does take place from time to time. Also it helps to get familiar with the accounting practices of the airlines when it comes to mileage-related liabilities and revenue recognition practices related to mileage redemptions. For accounting and regulatory purposes, mileage tickets being considered revenue tickets shouldn't be a shocker.
Apr 15, 2014, 2:15 pm
#75
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,901
Well, that part of your post is pretty much undeniable-- they should have found some other "reasoning" for the change in their talking points as this one makes little sense.
That said, the rest is...well... I'm in the camp of "time to accept the new reality or take your business where ya' think it's more appreciated."
The no-notice aspect of the elimination of Explorer awards was really, really poorly thought-out. The rest of it, everyone I guess has their own view, but none of it bothers me personally all that much. And the elimination of the N.American gateway stopover, least of all-- I'd rather just pay for whatever amount of award I'm going to use and not subsidize other's more "creative" usage, personally. BIG YMMV, needless to say!
That said, the rest is...well... I'm in the camp of "time to accept the new reality or take your business where ya' think it's more appreciated."
The no-notice aspect of the elimination of Explorer awards was really, really poorly thought-out. The rest of it, everyone I guess has their own view, but none of it bothers me personally all that much. And the elimination of the N.American gateway stopover, least of all-- I'd rather just pay for whatever amount of award I'm going to use and not subsidize other's more "creative" usage, personally. BIG YMMV, needless to say!