Mar 7, 2014, 1:36 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
The current thread for discussing the 767-323ER Thompson Vantage Business Seats is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1542143-boeing-767-300-763-thompson-vantage-business-seat-map-best-seats.html.
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"CIP" Cabin Improvement Program Full Lie Flat Thompson Vantage Seat and All-Aisle Access. 16 of 24 with WiFi, Business with tablets for IFE.
See American Airlines Business Class Seat video in first post [/b][/center]
Due to thread and interest growth, please see 763 / 767 CIP New (2014) Business Seat and Map (master thread). BUSINESS SEAT and BUSINESS CABIN posts have moved to that thread.
NOTE: All currently flying 763s are refurbished.
100% of the active fleet have been converted (as of 30OCT17) (* = wifi available):
- N342AN*, N343AN*, N344AN*, N346AN*, N347AN*, N348AN*, N349AN*, N350AN*, N379AA, N381AN*, N384AA*, N385AM, N388AA, N389AA, N390AA, N391AA, N392AN, N393AN, N394AN, N395AN, N396AN, N397AN*, N398AN, and N399AN*.
The following 34 aircraft have been retired (as of 30OCT17):
- N345AN, N351AA, N352AA, N353AA, N354AA, N355AA, N357AA, N358AA, N39356, N359AA, N360AA, N361AA, N362AA, N363AA, N39364, N39365, N366AA, N39367, N368AA, N369AA, N370AA, N371AA, N372AA, N373AA, N374AA, N7375A, N376AN, N377AN, N378AN, N382AN, N383AN, N386AA, N387AM, N380AN (with N373AA being the final NGBC aircraft retired to Roswell on 30OCT17)
Program details:
- ~26 (46%) of AA's fleet of 57 763 / 767-323ERs have been retained and upgraded with a Cabin Improvement Program - 28 new horizontal lie-flat Thompson Vantage business seats, 14 MCE seats (row 11 gets removed as the business cabin is enlarged), and 163 coach / economy (including 14 exit row) seats. Other upgrades include international satellite Wi-Fi (refit started in 2016), 110V AC power outlets in the business cabin (MCE and coach will retain 15V DC cigarette-lighter style power), new overhead monitors and audio systems, and a refurbishment of lavatories and main cabin seats. No personal in-seat video system was installed - the premium cabin retain the Samsung Galaxy tablets (docked to seatbacks) on international flights, and the main cabin, as well as the premium cabin on domestic flights, will stay with shared overhead screens.
- These aircraft were refurbished for one reason: the AA/BA/IB/AY transatlantic joint business agreement requires that AA have lie-flat seats for transatlantic routes.
- Link to post with artist's rendition of new J cabin. Link to post with new seat maps as they appear in AA.com
- Link to airchive article including pictures, and Link to mycrewlife blog post with more renderings showing the business cabin.
- Link to FT Trip Report with images
- Link to AA's widebody CIP announcement. For 777 upgrades, see thread 777-200ER / 772 No First; New Business Announced 2014 (767 stuff moved).
J-cabin seat map:
Code:
A D G J 2 0_ 0_0_ _0 2 3 _0 _0_0 0_ 3 4 0_ 0_0_ _0 4 5 _0 _0_0 0_ 5 6 0_ 0_0_ _0 6 7 _0 _0_0 0_ 7 8 0_ 0_0_ _0 8 A D G J Legend: 0 = seat; _ = table
Note: the seats in C behind seats with smaller consoles (inside center) have smaller foot cubbies; those with large feet or shoes will feel cramped. Those over six feet will feel cramped if they lie supine in the fully flattened seat; sleeping slanted or side sleeping with bent legs is possible.
In Business they offer a 110 VAC multi-socket in the e-pad front tray area, and another, as well as USB and audio mini jack at shoulder height over and at the rear of the console. Seat controls are touch controls, and can involuntarily be operated by resting your forearm on the console.
The tray table is released with a button; it pivots out and folds. Table height may impede those who are portly or have long legs. Overhead bins, IFE monitors, lavs etc. have not been upgraded.
JDiver's mini-report here.
Contributors: sensei, SDQBound(former B7e7US), Longboater, Econometrics[/COLOR]
ARCHIVE: Boeing 767-300 / 763 "CIP" with Lie Flat Business (2014 CIP)
May 9, 2012, 6:02 pm
#16
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I also have to wonder if the EXP eVIP party is going to last much longer in a mostly J/Y longhaul cabin model (with a light dusting of F). If AA is filling their J cabins with people on rock-bottom cheap Y fares, who get their eVIPs on cheap domestic MRs, that's not going to work. I'd have to think they will need to make a qualifying fare basis on eVIPs at some point- or maybe do something like make EXP based on 100,000 EQP instead of EQMs (which would mean lots of mileage running for low-fare MRers).
I'd also think this means AFS transcon F is going to be history...
I'd also think this means AFS transcon F is going to be history...
1. Likelihood of fuel stops on westbound transcons falls to near-zero (with A321s westbound fuel stops are much more likely).
2. Avoids creating another new sub-fleet for use on just JFK-LAX/SFO.
The new A321s could be flown on shorter 757 routes (non-transcon), freeing up some 757s for use on the AFS transcons.
May 9, 2012, 6:19 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 2011
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No official updates, but AA has been renegotiating the leases on the remaining 762s and they will be retired within the next two or three years as the new narrowbodies are delivered. Lots of speculation that AA will configure A321s in two-class for transcons but it would make more sense to convert another 20 or so 757s into 75Ls and use them. This possibility was raised by eolesen (former AA management) today. Or throw in the towel on the idea of 757s on TATL flights and use the 18 already-existing 75Ls. Two advantages of 757s over A321s:
1. Likelihood of fuel stops on westbound transcons falls to near-zero (with A321s westbound fuel stops are much more likely).
2. Avoids creating another new sub-fleet for use on just JFK-LAX/SFO.
The new A321s could be flown on shorter 757 routes (non-transcon), freeing up some 757s for use on the AFS transcons.
What would make more sense would be to eliminate 44 Y seats on the 757 in favor of an additional 12/16 J seats and have Y begin at row 17 (exit). Then you'd have J 28/32 and Y 122, which isn't far off from the current 762 (minus the F cabin, of course).
May 9, 2012, 6:51 pm
#18
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Ahead of or concurrent with the 762s?
Couldn't imagine them going first unless they're really that much more expensive to operate on transcons than the 762 (due to larger size). I could potentially see the Y mini-cabin becoming two rows of F and having a transcon fleet with F42 and what currently passes for NGBC on int'l flights.
Couldn't imagine them going first unless they're really that much more expensive to operate on transcons than the 762 (due to larger size). I could potentially see the Y mini-cabin becoming two rows of F and having a transcon fleet with F42 and what currently passes for NGBC on int'l flights.
Most importantly, it still remains to be seen what exactly the role of the 787-9 will be. The announcement of 763 retirements gives us some insight that it will be a 763 replacement, but hopefully we see AA use it's range to its advantage.
Now that they've done this announcement, I'm more curious about when/if they will announce a new route related to the 77W, because for the past maybe two months or so a "big" route announcement (I'd guess the long rumored MIANRT or DFWHKG flight, the former which Horton mentioned a few months ago in, I believe, USA Today) related to the 77W has supposedly been imminent, but zilch so far.
Last edited by MAH4546; May 9, 2012 at 6:58 pm
May 9, 2012, 7:21 pm
#19
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There will be a lot still to be figured out. For example, I forget who, but an AA exec mentioned previously possibly having three-class A321s. But, with United ditching 3-class trans-con service, will AA want 3-class trans-con service? Who knows. And with the F cabin situation - I personally feel that if AA only has 10 planes with F, what's the point? Maybe (probably, IMO) AA will convert the remaining 6 772 orders to 77W, but, still, 16 planes with F? Very uncompetitive with United - so that's why I think we'll see the 787-9s with first, but I've heard nothing about how it will be configured. Also, with regards to the 763, I really think AA needs a medium-haul, high density plane, and they should convert some 763s into this for service to Hawaii, Peru, the Caribbean. It can play a role like the A300 once did. Or maybe AA can take some 763s into 3-class and make them the trans-con plane? It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. AA will have a lot of planes to work with to get the right mix of layouts needed for various tasks, and likely without having to do subfleets.
Most importantly, it still remains to be seen what exactly the role of the 787-9 will be. The announcement of 763 retirements gives us some insight that it will be a 763 replacement, but hopefully we see AA use it's range to its advantage.
Now that they've done this announcement, I'm more curious about when/if they will announce a new route related to the 77W, because for the past maybe two months or so a "big" route announcement (I'd guess the long rumored MIANRT or DFWHKG flight, the former which Horton mentioned a few months ago in, I believe, USA Today) related to the 77W has supposedly been imminent, but zilch so far.
Most importantly, it still remains to be seen what exactly the role of the 787-9 will be. The announcement of 763 retirements gives us some insight that it will be a 763 replacement, but hopefully we see AA use it's range to its advantage.
Now that they've done this announcement, I'm more curious about when/if they will announce a new route related to the 77W, because for the past maybe two months or so a "big" route announcement (I'd guess the long rumored MIANRT or DFWHKG flight, the former which Horton mentioned a few months ago in, I believe, USA Today) related to the 77W has supposedly been imminent, but zilch so far.
As far as only having 10 planes with F, I disagree about whether or not there's a point in doing that. It could make aircraft utilization more complex, but as long as you avoid sub-fleets I don't see much problem. As I said earlier, you can't really compare to UA since any J product UA offers is decades behind what AA will be rolling out. The new 777 J looks like a military hospital transport...
Now, what I could see, in theory, but would likely be difficult in practice, is to offer two-class J and Y+ narrowbody planes with either the current int'l J or the new one up front and a 40-45in pitch seat in the back mirroring the current domestic F offerings to sell as J/J+ for domestic transcons (with J at about $1k r/t) and Y+/J for int'l (sort of like Openskies). I think you'd get a lot of takers but the question is whether you'd lose too much of the "gravy" usually scooped up from coach on the transcons.
Nov 29, 2012, 1:14 pm
#20
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 132
Renovated 767-300 / 763 with New Business Class Announced for 1 Apr 2014
2014 for the START of the 763 refurbs....??? I don't mind them when the 7's aren't available (ie into ZRH), but imagine how much more tired is the already tired looking 763 fleet going to look two years from now.
One could hope this timetable is related to the (hopeful) beginning of its 787 deliverires in '14, at least as long as the long-running foolishness with the pilots finally stops affecting the order...
One could hope this timetable is related to the (hopeful) beginning of its 787 deliverires in '14, at least as long as the long-running foolishness with the pilots finally stops affecting the order...
Jan 18, 2013, 7:33 pm
#21
Join Date: Jan 2013
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Power requirements, cost, mistake, undecided or use of the aircraft on domestic sectors all seem plausible.
Jan 19, 2013, 8:10 pm
#22
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With the 787s due beginning 2014, how much longer do you think the 763s will remain in the fleet? Maybe not worth the extensive rewiring, especially since the 763s will probably be withdrawn as 787s come online and a 763 nears its C check. (787 and 763 have similar passenger capacity but the 787 is presumably 20% more efficient.)
Jan 21, 2013, 6:50 am
#24
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Yep. currently, it's Samsung Galaxy 10.1 Tablets.
I really like the integrated-tablet idea. Finally, you can adjust the viewing angle and distance as you like. I hope they keep this, albeit with better seat integration.
Only complaint I have is that the system gets shut down and taken away way too early - commonly something like 45 minutes before landing in my experience.
I really like the integrated-tablet idea. Finally, you can adjust the viewing angle and distance as you like. I hope they keep this, albeit with better seat integration.
Only complaint I have is that the system gets shut down and taken away way too early - commonly something like 45 minutes before landing in my experience.
Jan 21, 2013, 7:23 am
#25
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Gentle reminder: the AAdvantage forum isn't the place to be debating relative merits of one tablet or OS over another, and it's also not the place for merger debates and discussion. Off topic posts have been and will be subject to removal. 
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May 8, 2013, 1:33 pm
#26
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You are quite correct - on the page linked to in the wikipost, AA says they will retain and refurbish up to half the 763 fleet.
Code:
American intends to retrofit up to half of its existing 767-300ER aircraft. Those that are redesigned will operate the new configuration with fully lie-flat Business Class Seats and all-aisle access. The remaining 767-300ERs that are not redesigned will be retired over time. The Business Class cabin will feature up to 28 fully lie-flat Business Class seats with all-aisle access, individual tray tables, a work surface, and universal AC power outlets, in addition to the Samsung Galaxy Tab™ 10.1 device currently offered for inflight entertainment. The 767-300ERs will have 14 Main Cabin Extra seats with four to six inches more leg room than a standard Main Cabin seat. The Main Cabin will offer 167 seats. The airline intends to use retrofitted 767-300ERs on flights to existing markets. American intends to begin retrofitting the 767-300ERs in early 2014.
...
767's will still be in the fleet for the forseeable future so I assume many will be refurbed, I remember reading it but am unable to provide a source.
It will take many years to retire all those 767's, not to mention they only have 787-9 on order and they seem too big for a chunk of 767 missions...
767's will still be in the fleet for the forseeable future so I assume many will be refurbed, I remember reading it but am unable to provide a source.
It will take many years to retire all those 767's, not to mention they only have 787-9 on order and they seem too big for a chunk of 767 missions...
May 8, 2013, 1:55 pm
#27
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Do we know which J seats they'll be putting on the 763 (from the 77W or the A321 transcon)? Something else completely?
I ask because had the pleasure of flying CX J on an 332 connecting to a 77W (so the J seats currently on AA 77W), and it was clear that the space where the storage cubby is was narrower (which takes away room where your toes would be), and it seemed to me that they made the aisles narrower as well.
If they use those seats on the 763 without drastic modification, it's going to be a tight squeeze indeed!
Cabin widths:
- 777: 19' 3"
- 330: 17' 3"
- 767: 15' 6"
I ask because had the pleasure of flying CX J on an 332 connecting to a 77W (so the J seats currently on AA 77W), and it was clear that the space where the storage cubby is was narrower (which takes away room where your toes would be), and it seemed to me that they made the aisles narrower as well.
If they use those seats on the 763 without drastic modification, it's going to be a tight squeeze indeed!
Cabin widths:
- 777: 19' 3"
- 330: 17' 3"
- 767: 15' 6"
May 8, 2013, 11:06 pm
#28
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Do we know which J seats they'll be putting on the 763 (from the 77W or the A321 transcon)? Something else completely?
I ask because had the pleasure of flying CX J on an 332 connecting to a 77W (so the J seats currently on AA 77W), and it was clear that the space where the storage cubby is was narrower (which takes away room where your toes would be), and it seemed to me that they made the aisles narrower as well.
If they use those seats on the 763 without drastic modification, it's going to be a tight squeeze indeed!
Cabin widths:
- 777: 19' 3"
- 330: 17' 3"
- 767: 15' 6"
I ask because had the pleasure of flying CX J on an 332 connecting to a 77W (so the J seats currently on AA 77W), and it was clear that the space where the storage cubby is was narrower (which takes away room where your toes would be), and it seemed to me that they made the aisles narrower as well.
If they use those seats on the 763 without drastic modification, it's going to be a tight squeeze indeed!
Cabin widths:
- 777: 19' 3"
- 330: 17' 3"
- 767: 15' 6"
May 8, 2013, 11:19 pm
#29
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One other thing, the footwell (in the bed position) is wider by 3-4 inches in the window seats than the center section. I took photos to confirm (can't post now though).
Aug 18, 2013, 2:35 pm
#30
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As others have said, AA hasn't released any details beyond the announcement in May, 2012:
http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressrelease...widebody-fleet
From that release, the 763s will get "up to 28" new lie-flat seats. With the new seats requiring just 40-some inches of pitch, perhaps seven rows can occupy roughly the space occupied by the five rows of 60-some inch pitch NGBC.
AA also announced that the 763s would feature 14 MCE seats, or just two rows. Sounds like the 28 new J seats would require giving up one row of MCE in the mini-cabin.
http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/pressrelease...widebody-fleet
From that release, the 763s will get "up to 28" new lie-flat seats. With the new seats requiring just 40-some inches of pitch, perhaps seven rows can occupy roughly the space occupied by the five rows of 60-some inch pitch NGBC.
AA also announced that the 763s would feature 14 MCE seats, or just two rows. Sounds like the 28 new J seats would require giving up one row of MCE in the mini-cabin.