Mar 7, 2014, 1:36 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
The current thread for discussing the 767-323ER Thompson Vantage Business Seats is https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage/1542143-boeing-767-300-763-thompson-vantage-business-seat-map-best-seats.html.
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"CIP" Cabin Improvement Program Full Lie Flat Thompson Vantage Seat and All-Aisle Access. 16 of 24 with WiFi, Business with tablets for IFE.
See American Airlines Business Class Seat video in first post [/b][/center]
Due to thread and interest growth, please see 763 / 767 CIP New (2014) Business Seat and Map (master thread). BUSINESS SEAT and BUSINESS CABIN posts have moved to that thread.
NOTE: All currently flying 763s are refurbished.
100% of the active fleet have been converted (as of 30OCT17) (* = wifi available):
- N342AN*, N343AN*, N344AN*, N346AN*, N347AN*, N348AN*, N349AN*, N350AN*, N379AA, N381AN*, N384AA*, N385AM, N388AA, N389AA, N390AA, N391AA, N392AN, N393AN, N394AN, N395AN, N396AN, N397AN*, N398AN, and N399AN*.
The following 34 aircraft have been retired (as of 30OCT17):
- N345AN, N351AA, N352AA, N353AA, N354AA, N355AA, N357AA, N358AA, N39356, N359AA, N360AA, N361AA, N362AA, N363AA, N39364, N39365, N366AA, N39367, N368AA, N369AA, N370AA, N371AA, N372AA, N373AA, N374AA, N7375A, N376AN, N377AN, N378AN, N382AN, N383AN, N386AA, N387AM, N380AN (with N373AA being the final NGBC aircraft retired to Roswell on 30OCT17)
Program details:
- ~26 (46%) of AA's fleet of 57 763 / 767-323ERs have been retained and upgraded with a Cabin Improvement Program - 28 new horizontal lie-flat Thompson Vantage business seats, 14 MCE seats (row 11 gets removed as the business cabin is enlarged), and 163 coach / economy (including 14 exit row) seats. Other upgrades include international satellite Wi-Fi (refit started in 2016), 110V AC power outlets in the business cabin (MCE and coach will retain 15V DC cigarette-lighter style power), new overhead monitors and audio systems, and a refurbishment of lavatories and main cabin seats. No personal in-seat video system was installed - the premium cabin retain the Samsung Galaxy tablets (docked to seatbacks) on international flights, and the main cabin, as well as the premium cabin on domestic flights, will stay with shared overhead screens.
- These aircraft were refurbished for one reason: the AA/BA/IB/AY transatlantic joint business agreement requires that AA have lie-flat seats for transatlantic routes.
- Link to post with artist's rendition of new J cabin. Link to post with new seat maps as they appear in AA.com
- Link to airchive article including pictures, and Link to mycrewlife blog post with more renderings showing the business cabin.
- Link to FT Trip Report with images
- Link to AA's widebody CIP announcement. For 777 upgrades, see thread 777-200ER / 772 No First; New Business Announced 2014 (767 stuff moved).
J-cabin seat map:
Code:
A D G J 2 0_ 0_0_ _0 2 3 _0 _0_0 0_ 3 4 0_ 0_0_ _0 4 5 _0 _0_0 0_ 5 6 0_ 0_0_ _0 6 7 _0 _0_0 0_ 7 8 0_ 0_0_ _0 8 A D G J Legend: 0 = seat; _ = table
Note: the seats in C behind seats with smaller consoles (inside center) have smaller foot cubbies; those with large feet or shoes will feel cramped. Those over six feet will feel cramped if they lie supine in the fully flattened seat; sleeping slanted or side sleeping with bent legs is possible.
In Business they offer a 110 VAC multi-socket in the e-pad front tray area, and another, as well as USB and audio mini jack at shoulder height over and at the rear of the console. Seat controls are touch controls, and can involuntarily be operated by resting your forearm on the console.
The tray table is released with a button; it pivots out and folds. Table height may impede those who are portly or have long legs. Overhead bins, IFE monitors, lavs etc. have not been upgraded.
JDiver's mini-report here.
Contributors: sensei, SDQBound(former B7e7US), Longboater, Econometrics[/COLOR]
ARCHIVE: Boeing 767-300 / 763 "CIP" with Lie Flat Business (2014 CIP)
Mar 8, 2014, 3:05 pm
#166
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AA SPG Amex
Posts: 4,644
Actually, can't say I have the slightest idea beyond what you've observed. I intend to find out at some point, but, for now, just know that the personal space varies measurably between seats-- how much that actually affects passenger comfort I don't actually know.
I think anyone can see that the window seat that has the seat up against the wall will be the most desirable seats overall-- maybe even regardless of if that seat has low/high/average amount of personal living space.
I think anyone can see that the window seat that has the seat up against the wall will be the most desirable seats overall-- maybe even regardless of if that seat has low/high/average amount of personal living space.
Looks to me like the single seats tend to have equal amounts of living space to one another, and the middle section seats with both the individual and shared armrest/table have the most space overall, but perhaps the rendering displayed earlier is a little deceiving in that regard.
Mar 8, 2014, 3:17 pm
#167
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Some of it will still be personal choice, I feel. If I were in one of the single seats, I'd prefer the seat which is not up against the window for two reasons. First and foremost, part of being an "old soul" means that, at 30, I already get up nightly to see a man about a horse, and that's without being in the extra-dehydrating environment that is an aircraft. I'd prefer to be able to just lift/lower the armrest and slide out of bed rather than have to move the seat upright, and then back down.
I'd agree from all appearances.
Mar 8, 2014, 5:30 pm
#168
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so i flew on the old DL 763ER in coach a few years back from EZE-ATL and it was the terrible old screens via projector. Doesn't that mean DL's 763ERs weren't hard wired either, but they still chose to invest in a proper cabin refurb with in-seat AVOD nose to tail?
i think AA's new cabin looks good, but it's ridiculous that they are still going to pass out those tablets even in J (and continue to have the Y cabin with no in seat video). It takes up too much time to pass out the tablets and headsets plus then wake people up to collect them so early before landing.
Yes, I have an iPad and a Macbook Air - i prefer in-seat AVOD.
i think AA's new cabin looks good, but it's ridiculous that they are still going to pass out those tablets even in J (and continue to have the Y cabin with no in seat video). It takes up too much time to pass out the tablets and headsets plus then wake people up to collect them so early before landing.
Yes, I have an iPad and a Macbook Air - i prefer in-seat AVOD.
Mar 8, 2014, 5:38 pm
#169
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: JFK/LGA
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Posts: 5,824
Mar 8, 2014, 9:26 pm
#170
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AA SPG Amex
Posts: 4,644
Not my personal experience, but then again overseas flights are just about the only ones I'll have a glass or two of wine/champagne on these days, and I find that the dry environment exacerbates the effects of these. It also makes me drink more water. And I'm an old man in a 30yr old's body.
Mar 8, 2014, 9:30 pm
#171
Join Date: Sep 2011
Programs: AA SPG Amex
Posts: 4,644
so i flew on the old DL 763ER in coach a few years back from EZE-ATL and it was the terrible old screens via projector. Doesn't that mean DL's 763ERs weren't hard wired either, but they still chose to invest in a proper cabin refurb with in-seat AVOD nose to tail?
i think AA's new cabin looks good, but it's ridiculous that they are still going to pass out those tablets even in J (and continue to have the Y cabin with no in seat video). It takes up too much time to pass out the tablets and headsets plus then wake people up to collect them so early before landing.
Yes, I have an iPad and a Macbook Air - i prefer in-seat AVOD.
i think AA's new cabin looks good, but it's ridiculous that they are still going to pass out those tablets even in J (and continue to have the Y cabin with no in seat video). It takes up too much time to pass out the tablets and headsets plus then wake people up to collect them so early before landing.
Yes, I have an iPad and a Macbook Air - i prefer in-seat AVOD.
Mar 9, 2014, 2:03 pm
#172
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 32
I couldn't agree more. The use of/need for the tablets on the 763 is lame and uncompetitive -- especially since it takes 30+ minutes in flight for them to be distributed, only to be collected 45-60 minutes before landing. If they are going to go through the hassle of reconfiguring the planes it would have been nice for them to include in-seat/built-in IFE technology that every other carrier seems to have no problem implementing. 
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Mar 9, 2014, 2:08 pm
#173
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 32
Not necessarily. Hasn't DL had AVOD in J for some time? That tells me that the aircraft was wired for it but DL didn't want to invest (at that time) in Y seats that featured built-in screens. There's a difference between making sure the 30-40 seats people pay $5k+ for have proper IFE vs. the 175 seats people pay $7-800 for.
Mar 9, 2014, 3:43 pm
#174
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Maybe it's made up, but it's probably not; you'd figure that after the massive waste with the 2006/08 seats that are being junked now, less than midway through their lifespan, AA learned the lesson that penny-pinching (as in 2006) is often pound-foolish.
Mar 9, 2014, 10:19 pm
#175
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Is the tail number of the 763 under refurb known? Or anyone knows where the install is taking place?
Mar 9, 2014, 10:30 pm
#176
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
OK, I took a wild guess and looked the youngest frame in AA's fleet, N350AN, and found that it went to Everett (KPAE) the morning of 7 March and has been there since.
My hypothesis is that it's the aircraft that is being worked on.
My hypothesis is that it's the aircraft that is being worked on.
Mar 9, 2014, 10:41 pm
#177
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Turns out that Everett is where Zodiac Northwest Aerospace Technologies is located, and they are "an engineering services company specializing in large transport category aircraft modification programs requiring FAA and EASA certification" (source: http://www.zodiacaerospace.com/en/zo...technologies-0).
Of course, the seats are Zodiac's Vantage II, and since this is their first install on AA's 763, they would require FAA certification, so it makes sense for Zodiac to do the first install and oversee the FAA process to get them certified.
This corroborates my hypothesis and is therefore very likely that N350AN is indeed the frame getting the new seats.
Of course, the seats are Zodiac's Vantage II, and since this is their first install on AA's 763, they would require FAA certification, so it makes sense for Zodiac to do the first install and oversee the FAA process to get them certified.
This corroborates my hypothesis and is therefore very likely that N350AN is indeed the frame getting the new seats.
Mar 9, 2014, 11:15 pm
#178
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Location: SEA, but up and down the coast a lot
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Posts: 20,381
It's perfectly possible for AA to refit their 763s with AVOD and BSI in Y, NH did (scroll down a bit to the NH 911 TR). I flew their 763s before their J refit (with their old J seats, these are newer). AA is just lazy and doesn't want to spend the dosh... which is certainly their right. But it's certainly possible...
Mar 10, 2014, 10:39 pm
#179
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New Hampshire
Programs: AA Platinum, Marriott Gold, Everything else: Dirt
Posts: 802
Any idea if they are gonna refurb that HNL/OGG planes? If not, I wonder what plane has the range to make it there from DFW/ORD (seasonal)? It would be a shame if all Hawaii service moved to LAX.
Mar 10, 2014, 10:56 pm
#180
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: CUR
Posts: 2,170
Those will still be run by the unrefurbished 767s. Don't expect those to be gone till the 787s arrive, which can then replace the refurbished 767s, which in turn can then replace the non-refurbished 767s.