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AA oneworld & Other Airline Partner Award information, rules (master thd)

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Old Dec 5, 17, 9:43 am   -   Wikipost
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Last edit by: JDiver
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oneworld and other airline Awards Rules, Information 2015 on

NOTE: New award charts are in place for awards made 22 March 2016 or later.

List of airlines you can use in redeeming awards:

oneworld airlines (and their oneworld affiliates) are:
  • AB - airberlin (and HG - Niki) (but AB ceased operations 2017)
  • AA - American Airlines (and American Eagle)
  • BA - British Airways (and BA Cityflyer, Comair, Eastern Airways, Open Skies, Sun Air of Scandinavia, BA Limited) (incurs high YQ surcharge)
  • CX - Cathay Pacific (and KA - Dragonair)
  • AY - Finnair (and Privilege Style, Flybe Finland)
  • IB - Iberia (and Air Nostrum, Iberia Express) (incurs YQ surcharge)
  • JL - Japan Airlines (and J-Air)
  • LA - LAN (and LAN Express, LAN Colombia, LP - LAN Peru) / LATAM
  • MH - Malaysia Airlines
  • RJ - Royal Jordanian
  • QF - Qantas (and QantasLink, Jetconnect - not Jetstar)
  • QR - Qatar Airways
  • S7 - S7 (and Globus - but excludes far eastern Russia / Siberia)
  • UL - SriLankan Airlines
  • JJ - TAM (LATAM)
Non-oneworld airlines one can redeem (MileSAAver) awards on are:
  • TN - Air Tahiti Nui
  • AS - Alaska Airlines
  • EY - Etihad Airways
  • FJ - Fiji Airways
  • GF - Gulf Air
  • HA - Hawaiian Airlines
  • 9W - Jet Airways (India)
Airlines that can be booked for award travel on aa.com:

oneworld alliance partners
  • AB - airberlin
  • BA - British Airways (awards incur YQ airline imposed surcharge)
  • AY - Finnair
  • QF - Qantas
  • RJ - Royal Jordanian Airlines

Other airline participants
  • AS - Alaska Airlines (not VX - Virgin America at this time)
  • HA - Hawaiian Airlines (ex-Hawai'i, not Mainland - HI)
All other airlines have to be requested by telephone; calling to book awards that cannot be booked online no longer incurs telephone service fees.

Routing assistance, etc.

Check this oneworld interactive map and timetable by Innosked to see potential routes, and you can sign up for British Airways Executive Club or Qantas Frequent Flyer to use their sites to find awards (look for the lowest level awards) you can't see on aa.com. Also see this link to AA.com listing oneworld airlines with information about each.

Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
(Routings allowed)

Awards may be put on hold for five days. Awards may take time to be verified by the operating airlines. Once approved, they will proceed to a booking queue for ticket issuance; the sooner the trip, the faster the process - and vice versa. See link to thread, below.

Booking for, or changing an award to, travel sooner than 21 days out requires an early booking fee (waived for Executive Platinum members). One can not book farther out, change to closer in and evade this fee any longer (as of 16 Feb 2012)

Booking Business or First awards with JL / Japan Airlines one will only be able to fly in Economy domestically in Japan, but upgrades are quite inexpensive at 1,000 or so per flight.

See more below in "General Rules"

Latest changes:
  • As of Aug 2017, Connections are limited to two connections / three flight segments for domestic awards, and three connections / four flight segments for international awards. Link
  • Nov 2016: MH and 9W can now be used on AA or CX transpacific awards to India subcontinent via HKG in addition to CX
  • May 6, 2016: Regions split (Indian Subcontinent, Middle East)
  • Jet Airways discontinued EWR-BRU as of 27 March 2016.
  • As of 7 April 2014, the "free stopover" discussed can no longer be used as free award stopovers at international North American gateways have been eliminated.
  • Airlines are normally precluded from writing tickets with more than 16 segments.
AA Region Definitions*

Region definitions changed again May 6, 2016. Link

Links and resources:
Updated 14 Mar 2017 by JDiver

_________________________________________________

updated 11MAY15 by hillrider. Modified and updated from JonNYC's original post in the archived thread (please feel free to update):

Introduction

There are two types of awards discussed below, AA Awards and oneworld and Other Airlines Awards[/B], which are targeted to passengers traveling to a single destination.

As of 1 October 2010 awards may be redeemed for travel on all British Airways flights, including previously excluded flights between the U.S. and U.K. Note that additional British Airways high YQ surcharges, as well as Iberia's lower YQ surcharges, apply based on class-of-service and market flown: see Earning and redeeming AA miles / upgrading on BA/IB; BA fuel surcharge (Oct 1, 2010)

Award Rules
  • American Airlines Awards are valid for travel on flights that are marketed and operated by AA (no codeshares). These awards can be booked online at AA.com.
  • oneworld and Other Airline awards are valid for travel on AA and any of its partner airlines, and can include travel on multiple partners. Many of these awards must be booked over the phone, and will not incur a Ticketing Service Charge (waived for EXPs in any case) if they cannot be booked online.
  • Up to four one-way awards can be booked on a single PNR.
General Rules, Routing and Connections

Passenger has 4h on domestic / 23h59m international travel to connect. If there are no scheduled flights within this timeframe, regardless of availability, the passenger must take the next scheduled flight but, may not exceed 24 hours. If the connection exceeds 24 hours, it will be considered a stopover may require two awards).

If there is a non-stop flight that departs after the 4h / 23h59m windows and arrives at the destination earlier than a connecting flight within the 4h / 23h59m window, the passenger may be booked on the non-stop flight.

Effective on 14 Jul 2014 on an all-AA-metal award itinerary, you now have up to 18 hours to connect when traveling to/from Hawaii [Ref]

The particular carrier's Maximum Permitted Miles / MPM + 25% on a particular route. (The MPM by itself often exceeds the distance between the origin and destination airports because connections may be required.)

Or, the "most significant carrier" (e.g. DFW-SFO-HKG-BKK, CX SFO-HKG is the prevailing or most significant carrier) must publish a non-constructed fare between your origin and destination.

To price as a single award, AAdvantage requires the most significant carrier to publish a cash fare (non-constructed) between the origin and destination. Airline MSC would have to have a published fare from XXX to YYY that allows travel on all included airlines, and routing that you want. If the MSC only offers constructed fares between your desired origin and destination, AA will price this as two awards.

Stopovers

None allowed.

Partner award inventories

Award booking inventory classes for each carrier in the AAdvantage Award program are listed below and may be useful when on the phone with an AA rep or when checking availability. See also the Award Booking Codes page in the FlyerGuide wiki for updated information.

Code:
 oneworld Partners          First     Business    Economy
 --------------------------------------------------------
 AA - American Airlines     Z          U           T      
 US - US Airways            O          I           X
 --------------------------------------------------------
 AB  Air Berlin                       U           X      
 HG  Niki                                                
 --------------------------------------------------------
 AY  Finnair                          U           X      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 BA  British Airways       Z          U           X     
 --------------------------------------------------------
 CX  Cathay Pacific        Z          U           T      
 KA - DragonAir                                   
 --------------------------------------------------------
 IB  Iberia                           U           X      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 JJ - TAM Airlines          O          I           X
 --------------------------------------------------------
 JL  Japan Airlines (Intl) Z          U           T
 JL  Japan Airlines (Dom)  Z          D           S
 --------------------------------------------------------
 LA  LAN Chile             Z          U           T      
 XL - LAN Ecuador
 LP - LAN Peru
 4M - LAN Argentina
 --------------------------------------------------------
 MH - Malaysia Airlines     P          U           X      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 QF - QANTAS Airways        P          U           X      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 QR - Qatar Airways         Z          U           X      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 RJ  Royal Jordanian                  U           X      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 S7  S7 Airlines                      U           E      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 UL - SriLankan Airlines                       
 --------------------------------------------------------
 
 Other Partners             First     Business    Economy
 --------------------------------------------------------
 FJ  Fiji Airways                     U           X      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 TN  Air Tahiti Nui                   I           W      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 AS  Alaska Airlines       A                      W      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 LY  El Al Israel          P          X           E      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 EY - Etihad                O          I           N      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 G3 - GOL                              I           X      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 GF - Gulf Air                         P           T      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 HA  Hawaiian Airlines     D                      T      
 --------------------------------------------------------
 9W - Jet Airways           R          D           X      
 --------------------------------------------------------

General Routing Rules

Routing

General Rules

Passenger has 4h / 23h59m to connect (depending on domestic or international travel). If there are no scheduled flights within this timeframe, regardless of availability, the passenger must take the next scheduled flight but, may not exceed 24 hours. If the connection exceeds 24 hours, it will be considered a stopover.

If there is a non-stop flight that departs after the 4h / 23h59m window and arrives at the destination earlier than a connecting flight within the 4h / 23h59m window, the passenger may be booked on the non-stop flight. It is not necessary to check every flight/carrier to ensure passenger is booked on next scheduled flight.

Must meet Married Segment Logic - a prospective trip may be available when searching segment by segment, yet not be bookable through from origin to destination. When selling seats for through flights and the desired inventory is not available, you cannot opt to sell the flight point-to-point. If sold point-to-point, the error response MULTIPLE SEGMENTS FOR SAME FLIGHT - SELL AS ONE SEGMENT will be received, indicating this booking is not allowed. Overriding the error check by ending the PNR twice is not acceptable.

Within North America
  • Awards wholly within North America are valid on all partner airlines that market and operate their own service within North America.
  • Travel between two cities in the United States via Canada/Mexico is not allowed.
  • Travel between two cities in Canada/Mexico via the United States is not allowed.
  • Passenger must travel the most direct routing.
  • Connections of more than 4 hours are considered a stopover unless the passenger is taking the next scheduled flight and it is outside the 4 hours.
  • Any connection of 24 hours is always considered a stopover.
  • Award travel between Hawaii and North America does not include inter-island flights.
  • Inter-island award travel will allow a maxium of 2 flight segments.
North America To/from Other Regions
  • Award travel to/from North America is allowed on any combination of carriers that service the applicable region except as noted below.
  • Passenger must use most direct routing.
  • Hawaiian Airlines is not valid for these awards.
  • As of Oct 1, 2010, British Airways is valid for all routes, including transatlantic flights between the U.S. and U.K.
  • Travel to Europe, Africa and the Indian Sub-Continent/Middle East must be via the Atlantic only.
  • Travel to Asia 1, Asia 2 and the South Pacific must be via the Pacific.
  • Travel to/from Fiji/Papeete cannot be via Australia/New Zealand.
  • Travel to Easter Island (IPC) must be via Papeete (PPT) or use two awards.
  • North American travel to/from Guam or Saipan, the transpacific segment must be on AA.
  • Passenger has 23h59m to connect, regardless of availability.
  • A connection with more than 23h59m will be considered a stopover.
Travel Wholly Within or Between All Other Regions
These awards do not allow a connection via North America and therefore, do not include travel on American Airlines.
  • Passenger must travel the most direct routing.
  • Connecting travel is not allowed outside the region or regions.
  • Passenger has 23h59m to connect, regardless of availability.
  • A connection with more than 24 hours will be considered a stopover.
Travel Via a Third Region

Travel via a third region is not allowed (note the exception table below).

EXCEPTION TABLE:
To/From Via
  • North America to/from Africa can connect in Europe or in DOH if connecting QR-QR
  • North America to/from Indian Sub Continent/Middle East can connect in Europe
  • North America to/from Asia 2 can connect in Asia 1
  • Central/South America to/from Africa can connect in Europe
  • Central/South America to/from Indian Sub Continent/Middle East can connect in Europe
  • Central/South America to/from South Pacific can connect in South America 2
  • South America 2 to/from Africa can connect in DOH if connecting QR-QR
  • South America 2 to/from Indian Sub Continent/Middle East can connect in Europe
  • Europe to/from Asia 1 can connect in Asia 2 or DOH if connecting QR-QR
  • Europe to/from Asia 2 can connect in DOH if connecting QR-QR
  • Europe to/from South Pacific can connect in Singapore or Bangkok only. Note: this may have been updated to include Bangkok, Doha, Hong Kong, Osaka, Singapore or Tokyo.
  • Africa to/from Asia 1 can connect in Asia 2 or in DOH if connecting QR-QR
  • Africa to/from Asia 2 can connect in DOH if connecting QR-QR
  • Indian Sub Continent/Middle East to/from Asia 1 can connect in Asia 2
  • Indian Sub Continent/Middle East to/from South Pacific can connect in Asia 2
  • Asia 1 to/from South Pacific can connect in Asia 2
Regions:
  • Asia 1 = Japan, Korea, Mongolia
  • Asia 2 = Bhutan, Brunei, China, Guam, Hong Kong, Indonesia, Laos, Malaysia, Myanmar, the Philippines, Saipan, Singapore, Taiwan, Thailand, Vietnam
  • South America 2 = Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile (excluding Easter Island), Paraguay, Uruguay
Travel on LAN direct flights between North America and South America Region 2 are allowed. Currently, only one market, Miami to/from Buenos Aries, has direct service. These can only be booked by the liaisons. Contact support for booking assistance.

For permitted changes and fees, see this post


Resources

NOTE: New award charts are in place for awards made 22 March 2016 or later. See the American Airlines charts here and the oneworld and partner award charts here, both those effective through 21 March 2016 and those taking effect 22 Mar 2016.
Awards assistance tools: Use at your own risk; may not be up to date. These are not recommendations.

  • Check this oneworld interactive map and timetable by Innosked to see potential routes.

  • British Airways Executive Club: You can sign up for British Airways Executive Club, Japan Airlines JAL Mileage Bank or Qantas Frequent Flyer to use their sites to find awards (look for the lowest level awards) you can't see on aa.com. Can show "phantom" availability.

  • Award Nexus: It's easy to do your experiments for some free browsing (click "more signup options" under the green Purchase button to sign up with your FlyerTalk login info). You might want to run each segment rather than origin to destination.

  • AwardAce: Compare Award Redemptions Across Airlines In Seconds

  • AwardHacker: "a tool we build to tell you how to travel with the least miles"

  • Award Nexus: which can search availability but can't determine cost, with FT member free limited use

  • Economical Excursionist's Tools: compare Frequent Flyer Mile Redemptions

  • ExpertFlyer is a common tool used on FT. There is a $99.99 annual fee, monthly fee and five day trial

  • Great Circle Mapper is useful for calculating distance and MPM (Maximum Permitted Mileage)

  • You can try PEX+ (currently in beta), which will even tell you how many miles you'll need, though it draws data from aa.com and S7 so it can't reveal awards that can not be seen on those sites.

  • Travel Codex Award Maximiser commercial blog

Links to other threads of interest:

MileSAAver / SAAver Award Availability - Help, Assistance & Discussion (consolidated)

Help with British Airways / BA surcharge / YQ (AA award on BA, consolidated)

UK APD / Air Passenger Duty charged for UK departures

Award with available segments not bookable? (Married Segment issues)

MileSAAver / SAAver award reduction / scarcity >= Aug 2011 onward (consolidated)

Ticket or Award status: On Request, Pending, Purchased and Ticketed (consolidated)

Link to archived older posts from this thread.

Thanks and a tip of the hat to aktchi, eponymous-coward, guv1976, hillrider, iztok, JonNYC and others who have contributed to this wiki.

Updated 24 Feb 2016 - JDiver.



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Old May 15, 15, 3:54 pm
  #151
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Programs: American AAdvantage
Posts: 982
Non-QF DFW-SYD Routing

In the past, I've redeemed miles on QF for DFW-SYD in J and F. Would it require more miles to travel on CX? As an alternative to either DFW-SYD(QF) or DFW-LAX(AA)/LAX-SYD(QF), I was thinking of DFW-HKG(AA)/HKG-SYD(CX).

Thanks.
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Old May 15, 15, 4:07 pm
  #152
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: AA LT PLT 3 MM+, BA (very) Blue, CO nobody
Posts: 2,537
Originally Posted by Sant View Post
In the past, I've redeemed miles on QF for DFW-SYD in J and F. Would it require more miles to travel on CX? As an alternative to either DFW-SYD(QF) or DFW-LAX(AA)/LAX-SYD(QF), I was thinking of DFW-HKG(AA)/HKG-SYD(CX).

Thanks.
Yes - it would be 2 separate awards on CX via HKG (but easier to get than QF direct). However, if you are going to go via HKG, why not fly CX all the way instead of AA/CX - I would. Also, if you do go via HKG, you are allowed a stopover as it is 2 awards.
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Old May 16, 15, 2:06 am
  #153
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seoul
Programs: TG*G, Accor Gold
Posts: 5,875
MH drops a flight on OW J award - who is supposed to advise me?

I have a ticketed OW J award BKK-AKL-BKK on a mix of MH, CX, and QF QF in late may. Specifically

BKK-KUL(MH785)-HKG(MH432)-AKL(CX197)
AKL-MEL(QF156)-KUL(MH148)-BKK(MH796)


I travel in about 1 week, and when reviewing the various sectors on ExpertFlyer I noticed the tha final sector KUL-BKK MH796 22:15-23:20 wasn't showing at all. I tried a dummy single sector booking on MH's own website and again the flight is not listed as operating. The flight seems to operate until May 28, then ceases thereafter. The next available flight is teh following morning, and there is some J availability - but this requires an overnight in KUL, and loses a night in BKK.

This trip has been a nightmare due to mis-handling by USDM (who failed to ticket correctly), resulting in a cancelled ticket, leaving poor options at short notice with AA once miles were re-deposited.....I'm almost tempted to cancel the whole thing and buy a Y ticket!

Assuming that MH have elected not to operate this sector, is it AA or MH who should advise me. And as a follow-on, should MH provide acommodation at KUL since there is now a compulsory overnight? (similar to STPC?).

What are AA's obligations since they issued the ticket? What if I decide to cancel based on the overnight in KUL not suiting? Grateful for opinions/experiences.....Note I have yet to contact AA or MH as I'm keen to gain for some idea of my options.

Last edited by Thai-Kiwi; May 16, 15 at 2:21 am
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Old May 16, 15, 2:45 am
  #154
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 36,023
MH isn't going to pay the hotel bill for the night

If there is availability the next day, then should be easy to get AA to rebook the sector - you will have the option to cancel and redeposit without penalty and can then purchase a revenue ticket if you prefer

If the flight is not operating anymore, then there is a limit to what AA can do
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Old May 16, 15, 3:00 am
  #155
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seoul
Programs: TG*G, Accor Gold
Posts: 5,875
Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
MH isn't going to pay the hotel bill for the night

If there is availability the next day, then should be easy to get AA to rebook the sector - you will have the option to cancel and redeposit without penalty and can then purchase a revenue ticket if you prefer

If the flight is not operating anymore, then there is a limit to what AA can do
Thanks DN. I remain curious about what is supposed to happen from a 'system' perspective if I hadn't noticed this. I presume AA should make contact with me once MH had 'advised' them (automatically or manually) - or is the system not that robust? of course, alternate award inventory might well be dwindling in the meantime.

It would seem a weakness in the ticketing system if this didn't come to light until check-in!

Cheers, TK


Edited to add:

Called MH. The staff member said the final sector was cancelled since there wasn't 2 hours between flights at KUL (note EF say MH-MH Intl-Intl MCT is 60 mins. When pressed on the fact that MH weren't even operating the flight according to their own website (and others), the agent checked and confimred the flight wasn't actually being operated, and that I needed to contact AA for a re-booking on another flight. The comment about not meeting MCT seems complete BS to me....

I'll contact MH first to see what is happening with this sector, then confirm that AA can also 'see' the problem, and finally make a call on either taking the later flight on MH or cancelling and buing a revenue ticket.

Last edited by Thai-Kiwi; May 16, 15 at 3:35 am
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Old May 16, 15, 3:30 am
  #156
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 36,023
Hopefully you would be contacted.

Given that MH796 was the last flight of the day and MH148 arrives after the previous service, I cannot see what MH would be able to do for you for travel that day

If the next morning's service to BKK has availabity that may be the best option for an award ticket from MH

Depending on the day of week there is a RJ flight at 22:10 which , if it has award availability, may be a good option. Alternatively , perhaps check for other routings such as AKL-KUL or AKL-HKG for award availability
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Old May 16, 15, 3:46 am
  #157
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seoul
Programs: TG*G, Accor Gold
Posts: 5,875
Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
Hopefully you would be contacted.

Given that MH796 was the last flight of the day and MH148 arrives after the previous service, I cannot see what MH would be able to do for you for travel that day

If the next morning's service to BKK has availabity that may be the best option for an award ticket from MH

Depending on the day of week there is a RJ flight at 22:10 which , if it has award availability, may be a good option. Alternatively , perhaps check for other routings such as AKL-KUL or AKL-HKG for award availability
See the added comments in my post above. I'll call AA to see if they have been advised.

It is self evident that if MH have decided not to operate the last flight of the day, then there'll be no same-day service to BKK with them. That leaves the ball with AA/myself. My question was when/how the customer would be notified. My AA account shows the booking as ticketd and 'OK'.

Similarly, many (all?) other routing possibilities have been checked daily, as I preferred not to fly MH, but nothing showing any J/Y availability. Thanks for the RJ tip, but they don't fly on the day concerned.

Cheers, and I will work on it tomorrow. The Hurricanes-Chiefs match now much more interesting at present......
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Old May 16, 15, 4:56 am
  #158
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Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 36,023
The MCT issue is indeed wrong - it would never have been ticketed in the 1st place ; if the flight is not operating, I would contact AA asap whilst availability next day exists and others who may have been displaced may be rebooking

I would have expected AA to send an email that there was a problem with the flights so that you could contact it for rebooking
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Old May 16, 15, 1:26 pm
  #159
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: LAX
Programs: AA EXP & Lifetime Plat, TK Elite+, SPG Plat, Hyatt Globlalist
Posts: 2,161
Originally Posted by Thai-Kiwi View Post
Assuming that MH have elected not to operate this sector, is it AA or MH who should advise me. And as a follow-on, should MH provide acommodation at KUL since there is now a compulsory overnight? (similar to STPC?).
MH is subbing and consolidating 2 737s to 1 777 between May 30 and June 6 (not too sure why a lot of 737 flights are canceled that particular week considering it's school holidays in Malaysia), but my friend who traveled last year and had his late night KUL-DPS canceled and he was put on next morning's flight and MH provided accommodation. Not too sure how this has changed now tho with MH's current financial situation.
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Old May 17, 15, 1:50 pm
  #160
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Germany / Thailand
Programs: TK*G + many FFP's without status. / SPG Platinum HH gold
Posts: 3,015
Originally Posted by Austinrunner View Post
The rule has existed for a long time. AA did not change any rule to allow QF to be used via DXB. The one-flight number principle has existed also for a long time.
This rule is simply stupid !
It would be enough to limit the routings to " no backtracking ", may be with the exeption, where no oneworld direct Routing aply, a MPM+25% is allowed.

Which kind of logic is behind this rule ? Them only not want people to fly Europe-HKG-Indian Sub. on CX, for the lower milage, and this them already reach with the MPM+25% rule.
Or is there any other reason, why people should not fly via AUH or DOH to Australia ? From Europe it`s absolutly straight on the way.
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Old May 17, 15, 4:00 pm
  #161
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Originally Posted by bertheike View Post
This rule is simply stupid !
It would be enough to limit the routings to " no backtracking ", may be with the exeption, where no oneworld direct Routing aply, a MPM+25% is allowed.

Which kind of logic is behind this rule ? Them only not want people to fly Europe-HKG-Indian Sub. on CX, for the lower milage, and this them already reach with the MPM+25% rule.
Or is there any other reason, why people should not fly via AUH or DOH to Australia ? From Europe it`s absolutly straight on the way.

Simple ( and hard to argue that it is silly rules ) is that

(a) Need to travel directly between origin zone and destination zone and
(b) has to be a routing that would be permitted on a paid fare. ( MPMs are only relevant when designated routeings are not specified )

For some destinations it is impossible ( or at least very difficult ) to travel between origin zone and destination zone directly. In these cases an exception is made

For Europe to Middle East/India , there is no reason at all to provide an exception since there is no issue going directly between regions

For Europe to South Pacific, transit in Asia 1 or Asia 2 is permitted. This provides decent options to get between Europe and South Pacific. Without the exception , would be limited to QF2/10 and BA15 from Europe to South Pacific rather than allow travel on airlines such as CX, MH and JL

It would ne nice if it also allowed Middle East as a connection point with a QR exception , which I am surprised is not allowed, but it is what it is

I am not surprised at such rules when you look at what people will try to do otherwise
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Old May 17, 15, 5:09 pm
  #162
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Germany / Thailand
Programs: TK*G + many FFP's without status. / SPG Platinum HH gold
Posts: 3,015
Originally Posted by Dave Noble View Post
Simple ( and hard to argue that it is silly rules ) is that

(a) Need to travel directly between origin zone and destination zone and
(b) has to be a routing that would be permitted on a paid fare. ( MPMs are only relevant when designated routeings are not specified )

For some destinations it is impossible ( or at least very difficult ) to travel between origin zone and destination zone directly. In these cases an exception is made

For Europe to Middle East/India , there is no reason at all to provide an exception since there is no issue going directly between regions

For Europe to South Pacific, transit in Asia 1 or Asia 2 is permitted. This provides decent options to get between Europe and South Pacific. Without the exception , would be limited to QF2/10 and BA15 from Europe to South Pacific rather than allow travel on airlines such as CX, MH and JL

It would ne nice if it also allowed Middle East as a connection point with a QR exception , which I am surprised is not allowed, but it is what it is

I am not surprised at such rules when you look at what people will try to do otherwise
Which logic is behind this ?
My most liked Routing is between Germany and Thailand.
With the existing rules Iam limited to (CX) FRA-HKG-BKK/HKT which is one of my top, but due to only 1 flight per day availability is very much limited in prem. cabins.
2nd, (BA) DE-LON-BKK, which is not an real option due to the high YQ and one of the most bad availability @ all in C/F, and MH does not fly anymore ex DE via KUL.
The best availability is on EY and QR via AUH and DOH and with alot of flights every day from DUS/HAM/BER/FRA and MUC to BKK and HKT.
The flights are no backtracking, and both EY and QR have published rates for the Routings.

P.S. I know, both origing ( DE ) and Destination (TH) are mainly served by *aliance. But I not choosed to " suck" with oneworld. US changed to AA and BMI DC to BA. And now people them have saved miles over many years, have to see how them can burn them. And as already said, Iam not willing to pay more than 1000 $ on fees for BA Award flights,( which is a rippoff )! With these fees some awards even not have a value @ all.

Last edited by bertheike; May 17, 15 at 5:21 pm
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Old May 17, 15, 5:36 pm
  #163
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You can use QR to get to Asia 2 - Europe to Asia 2 is permitted via Middle East for a QR-QR connection

Airlines such a BA, MH and CX all offer direct service from Europe to Asia 2

The only real restriction that I can see is not being able to use EY

AA has had these routing rules for a long time, it is not some new invention that is now causing issues
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Old May 17, 15, 5:41 pm
  #164
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Originally Posted by bertheike View Post
Which logic is behind this ?
My most liked Routing is between Germany and Thailand.
With the existing rules Iam limited to (CX) FRA-HKG-BKK/HKT which is one of my top, but due to only 1 flight per day availability is very much limited in prem. cabins.
2nd, (BA) DE-LON-BKK, which is not an real option due to the high YQ and one of the most bad availability @ all in C/F, and MH does not fly anymore ex DE via KUL.
The best availability is on EY and QR via AUH and DOH and with alot of flights every day from DUS/HAM/BER/FRA and MUC to BKK and HKT.
The flights are no backtracking, and both EY and QR have published rates for the Routings.

P.S. I know, both origing ( DE ) and Destination (TH) are mainly served by *aliance. But I not choosed to " suck" with oneworld. US changed to AA and BMI DC to BA. And now people them have saved miles over many years, have to see how them can burn them. And as already said, Iam not willing to pay more than 1000 $ on fees for BA Award flights,( which is a rippoff )! With these fees some awards even not have a value @ all.

You had enquired about the EY vs. QR thing and I gave you a link to the chart of allowable, 3rd zone connections here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24702685-post9.html
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Old May 18, 15, 2:23 am
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Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
You had enquired about the EY vs. QR thing and I gave you a link to the chart of allowable, 3rd zone connections here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/24702685-post9.html
Thank's for your list. > https://www.flickr.com/photos/541310...n/photostream/
Interesting that Southamerica z2/Northamerika - Africa is allowed via DOHA, but Europe - Africa is not in that list ! Which results with the only choice left is BA with it's high YQ.
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