Impact of merger transition on ongoing DFW mess?
Dec 9, 13, 12:06 pm
#1
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Impact of merger transition on ongoing DFW mess?
I see on flightstats that AA is still cancelling the majority of departures out of DFW. Just curious whether anyone has any insight on the impact (positive or negative) the management transfer has had on their ability to cope. The whole mess certainly tarnishes the shine I would think they would have wanted on today's announcement.
Dec 9, 13, 1:00 pm
#2
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I would say that it is more about the Texas inability to cope with bad weather. I flew out of DFW Saturday morning and I always amazed that they do not put the snow plow blade directly against the road. I know it is hard on the road, but I never experienced the snow/ice/sand mixture texture on the roads up north as opposed to here.
Dec 9, 13, 1:40 pm
#4
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Originally Posted by nall
The south doesn't deal with snow well. When I lived in Atlanta, the whole city would practically freak out when it happened.
Dec 9, 13, 1:54 pm
#5
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Having worked for AA for 5 years back in the 1990's, I would say that DFW doesn't cope well with extremely cold weather and, particularly, ice storms. This has very little to do with AA. With the merger, they could actually move the hub to PHX (where it's just merely a bit cool).
Dec 9, 13, 2:13 pm
#6
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Originally Posted by nall
The south doesn't deal with snow well. When I lived in Atlanta, the whole city would practically freak out when it happened.
Originally Posted by formeraa
With the merger, they could actually move the hub to PHX (where it's just merely a bit cool).
Dec 9, 13, 2:16 pm
#7
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
It's not just the traditional south. DC and Philly don't cope well with snow either.
Dec 9, 13, 5:49 pm
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Originally Posted by Stripe
I see on flightstats that AA is still cancelling the majority of departures out of DFW. Just curious whether anyone has any insight on the impact (positive or negative) the management transfer has had on their ability to cope. The whole mess certainly tarnishes the shine I would think they would have wanted on today's announcement.
Dec 9, 13, 6:15 pm
#9
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Originally Posted by Stripe
Just curious whether anyone has any insight on the impact (positive or negative) the management transfer has had on their ability to cope.
Dec 9, 13, 9:24 pm
#10
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Originally Posted by wcj1
I flew out of DFW Saturday morning and I always amazed that they do not put the snow plow blade directly against the road. I know it is hard on the road, but I never experienced the snow/ice/sand mixture texture on the roads up north as opposed to here.
Originally Posted by nall
The south doesn't deal with snow well. When I lived in Atlanta, the whole city would practically freak out when it happened.
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
It's not just the traditional south. DC and Philly don't cope well with snow either.
Originally Posted by maggie08
I think maybe there are a lot of assumptions in our conversation about people understanding different types of precipitation, and why a snow storm is drastically different than an ice storm.
So in case your grade school science teachers were like mine
, here's a brief review.
All precipitation starts as fluffy ice crystals way up in the clouds where the temps are below freezing. If you are in a sufficiently cold climate, such that the atmosphere is below freezing all the way down, those same fluffy ice crystals mound up on the ground, and kids make snowmen. You can plow, shovel, sweep, and even blow it away.
However, if you live in a slightly warmer climate like Texas, that then randomly gets hit with a cold front, you end up with the atmosphere in layers: freezing temps in the upper layers as it is universally, and then a stratified lower level that has a warmer layer that rises and a colder layer at the ground. Ie, those fluffy ice crystals must pass through a warmer layer in the middle.
As they do, the ice crystals melt and congeal into rain when they hit the >32F layer, and then refreeze when they hit the lower colder layer either on the ground or just above. This puts a rock hard, frozen glaze on every surface that is extremely slick. Often the molecules are so tightly and regularly arranged, the ice is perfectly transparent. This CANNOT be plowed, shoveled, swept, or blown away.
There do exist some ice graters that basically cut ridges through the ice, but the process is extremely slow and time consuming. And when the heavens are actively falling down while you're working, not much you can do.
Additionally, and ice glaze is MUCH more dense than snow. The amount of salt you would have to pour onto the ground to adequately interrupt the molecular interaction of the actively falling freezing rain is astronomical.
I work in a hospital west of DFW. The same storm hit us Thursday morning, and we had ambulance crews turning back after attempting to answer 911 dispatch crews. AMBULANCES. Canceling runs.
This isn't just a matter of AA not being prepared, or DFW not having enough snow plows. Of course, there's always room for improvement in anything, but I think there may not be an appreciation for the gravity of the situation.
Although what was supposed to be a mere 22h overnight segment run for me including 3 stops in DFW has now turned into what will be, before I'm home, a 6 day (5 hotel nights, plus a rental car, target run for basics, missing work, and a ridiculous amount of eating whatever crap food is open) ordeal, AA absolutely has done the right thing by canceling flights in droves, and I stand by their outstanding performance over this horrendous weekend.
So in case your grade school science teachers were like mine
, here's a brief review. All precipitation starts as fluffy ice crystals way up in the clouds where the temps are below freezing. If you are in a sufficiently cold climate, such that the atmosphere is below freezing all the way down, those same fluffy ice crystals mound up on the ground, and kids make snowmen. You can plow, shovel, sweep, and even blow it away.
However, if you live in a slightly warmer climate like Texas, that then randomly gets hit with a cold front, you end up with the atmosphere in layers: freezing temps in the upper layers as it is universally, and then a stratified lower level that has a warmer layer that rises and a colder layer at the ground. Ie, those fluffy ice crystals must pass through a warmer layer in the middle.
As they do, the ice crystals melt and congeal into rain when they hit the >32F layer, and then refreeze when they hit the lower colder layer either on the ground or just above. This puts a rock hard, frozen glaze on every surface that is extremely slick. Often the molecules are so tightly and regularly arranged, the ice is perfectly transparent. This CANNOT be plowed, shoveled, swept, or blown away.
There do exist some ice graters that basically cut ridges through the ice, but the process is extremely slow and time consuming. And when the heavens are actively falling down while you're working, not much you can do.
Additionally, and ice glaze is MUCH more dense than snow. The amount of salt you would have to pour onto the ground to adequately interrupt the molecular interaction of the actively falling freezing rain is astronomical.
I work in a hospital west of DFW. The same storm hit us Thursday morning, and we had ambulance crews turning back after attempting to answer 911 dispatch crews. AMBULANCES. Canceling runs.
This isn't just a matter of AA not being prepared, or DFW not having enough snow plows. Of course, there's always room for improvement in anything, but I think there may not be an appreciation for the gravity of the situation.
Although what was supposed to be a mere 22h overnight segment run for me including 3 stops in DFW has now turned into what will be, before I'm home, a 6 day (5 hotel nights, plus a rental car, target run for basics, missing work, and a ridiculous amount of eating whatever crap food is open) ordeal, AA absolutely has done the right thing by canceling flights in droves, and I stand by their outstanding performance over this horrendous weekend.
