Nov 26, 2014, 4:51 am
Last edit by: IADCAflyer
Speculation: New Routes, Hubs, Flights (2017 Onward)
Because there is community interest in having a purely speculative discussion about whether other airports will pop up to become focus cities or hubs, new routes, etc. the following new thread has been amalgamated on this topic.Note:
Going: 9 A330-300, ER190, some older 757-200 and 8 767-300ER (leaving 17), MD-80
Coming: Remainder of 16 Boeing 26 787-8, 22 Boeing 787-9 (began later 2016). A320 family - 100 A321neo, and B737-800 (100 737-MAX8) aircraft.
See Cranky Flier article on 2016 fleet changes, AA-HP-US. Link.
Also see: HELP DESK: General questions about aircraft equipment, fleet, seats, IFE, etc.
Speculation fun time: Will xxx be the next AA focus city / hub? (consolidated)
Obsolete posts from 2015 on have been moved to ARCHIVE: Speculation: Possible Routes (Flights) and Hubs, Discussion - 2015 on
All posts prior to 2015 have been moved here: ARCHIVE: Routes (Flights) and Hubs (Speculation, News and Discussion)
Speculation: Possible Routes (Flights) and Hubs, Discussion - (2017 on)
Feb 7, 2018, 3:41 pm
#841
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: AA 1.6MM EXP; UA GS; SPG LTG,Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,477
I don't think premium flyers from the west coast to Europe are AA's role for PHL. They're certainly happy to use the TATL capacity to fill seats in the back where needed for west coast-Europe, but as you say, from the two premium markets (SFO and LAX), you can go via JFK, not to mention LHR (including joint venture flights) and have a much better experience. Between those two hubs, AA gets you everywhere that PHL gets you with one stop. I certainly wouldn't choose to connect on the east coast to get to Europe from the west coast; I'd much rather have a long long haul. 6-7 hours is about the most unpleasant flight length for me: too long to be short, but not long enough to really sleep (particularly when you factor in meal times at the beginning and end of the flight). PHL works very well as a connecting hub to Europe from east of the Mississippi or so where a ≈6-7 hour long haul is the reality (unless you backtrack), but is much less attractive beyond that. (That said, I speak only from personal experience being based in PHL; I've only connected there once or twice.)
Feb 7, 2018, 3:47 pm
#842
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: YYF/YLW
Programs: AA, DL, AS, VA, WS Silver
Posts: 5,950
There are no BA surcharges on paid business class flights.
Feb 7, 2018, 3:55 pm
#843
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,750
Your point is spot on though - award travel is not what builds a network.
Feb 7, 2018, 4:03 pm
#844
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: AA 1.6MM EXP; UA GS; SPG LTG,Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 1,477
Feb 7, 2018, 7:02 pm
#845
Moderator: American AAdvantage
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Posts with unfriendly and overly personalized commentary directed at other members have been deleted, and following that redacted to editborvremove replies to deleted post content.
Basically, the rule here is “Play the ball, not the player”. More extensively, the Rules state
Moderator
Basically, the rule here is “Play the ball, not the player”. More extensively, the Rules state
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12.1 Friendly, Respectful and Welcoming
FlyerTalk is a community and is intended to be a friendly, helpful and collegial place.
Please post in a friendly, respectful, welcoming manner. 'Snarky,' unfriendly posts will not be allowed. If you don't have something constructive to contribute to a thread, please do not post.
Unhelpful posts, such as "Do a search" or those that merely comment on the worthiness of others' posts or threads are neither friendly nor welcoming and will not be allowed. If you can't be helpful or contribute substantive content to a thread, please refrain from posting.
12.2 Avoid Getting Personal
If you have a difference of opinion with another member, challenge the idea — NOT the person. Getting personal with another member is not allowed. Personal attacks, insults, baiting and flaming will not be tolerated.
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If another member gets personal with you, do not retaliate. Retaliation may well subject you to the same discipline. Instead, please use the 'Alert a moderator to this thread' button in the lower-left-hand-corner of each post, send a note explaining your concern to the moderator team, and leave it to them to handle. Please also see Rule 22 — When you believe someone has violated the rules.
Feb 7, 2018, 7:11 pm
#846
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: PHL
Programs: AA
Posts: 342
Again, the 767s are going to be based out of MIA and PHL and are not replacing the A330s at PHL. They are being used to upgauge from 757s and on new routes.
Feb 9, 2018, 4:07 pm
#847
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: AA Platinum, UA Gold, Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 179
Sorry. I think my posts came off as more adversarial than intended. I only meant to make a point that I think CLT could support more TATL, and then as I found more info I added that to the discussion. As I've said, either good PHL connections to more places in the Southeast timed correctly so you can do one-stop TATL like you can with Delta(ATL) and United(IAD and ORD) or more TATL flights from CLT. It would probably be some balance of the two, but I hope they can figure out a way to balance these hubs right so everybody in each region has a good experience. PHL and CLT could both afford some improvements physically and in service.
As this article says, Madrid is probably the only spot they're really looking at for Iberia. I suppose until OW gets a stronger position in France and further east with AB gone in Central Europe, MAD, DUB, or HEL are probably all they'll look at for year-round. AMS would be nice for the lower landing/takeoff taxes, decent business base, and good launching point for the rest of central Europe, but I'm not sure that would translate into a profitable year-round route. I suppose AA would know best when they look at their load factors on those seasonal CLT routes.
I posted the article before but I didn't post the quotes.
As this article says, Madrid is probably the only spot they're really looking at for Iberia. I suppose until OW gets a stronger position in France and further east with AB gone in Central Europe, MAD, DUB, or HEL are probably all they'll look at for year-round. AMS would be nice for the lower landing/takeoff taxes, decent business base, and good launching point for the rest of central Europe, but I'm not sure that would translate into a profitable year-round route. I suppose AA would know best when they look at their load factors on those seasonal CLT routes.
Robert Isom, American president, and Vasu Raja, vice president of network and schedule planning, said Charlotte is in line for more trans-Atlantic service as the carrier revamps its fleet so that 767s are grouped in Philadelphia and Miami.
That would likely free Airbus A330s to fly Charlotte-Europe, Raja said Thursday at American’s media and investor day in Dallas.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed.../#13da583727f3
That would likely free Airbus A330s to fly Charlotte-Europe, Raja said Thursday at American’s media and investor day in Dallas.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tedreed.../#13da583727f3
Last edited by MOC991; Feb 9, 2018 at 4:30 pm
Feb 9, 2018, 5:33 pm
#848
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: PIT
Posts: 759
Feb 9, 2018, 7:58 pm
#849
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 167
Sorry. I think my posts came off as more adversarial than intended. I only meant to make a point that I think CLT could support more TATL, and then as I found more info I added that to the discussion. As I've said, either good PHL connections to more places in the Southeast timed correctly so you can do one-stop TATL like you can with Delta(ATL) and United(IAD and ORD) or more TATL flights from CLT. It would probably be some balance of the two, but I hope they can figure out a way to balance these hubs right so everybody in each region has a good experience. PHL and CLT could both afford some improvements physically and in service.
As this article says, Madrid is probably the only spot they're really looking at for Iberia. I suppose until OW gets a stronger position in France and further east with AB gone in Central Europe, MAD, DUB, or HEL are probably all they'll look at for year-round. AMS would be nice for the lower landing/takeoff taxes, decent business base, and good launching point for the rest of central Europe, but I'm not sure that would translate into a profitable year-round route. I suppose AA would know best when they look at their load factors on those seasonal CLT routes.
I posted the article before but I didn't post the quotes.
As this article says, Madrid is probably the only spot they're really looking at for Iberia. I suppose until OW gets a stronger position in France and further east with AB gone in Central Europe, MAD, DUB, or HEL are probably all they'll look at for year-round. AMS would be nice for the lower landing/takeoff taxes, decent business base, and good launching point for the rest of central Europe, but I'm not sure that would translate into a profitable year-round route. I suppose AA would know best when they look at their load factors on those seasonal CLT routes.
I posted the article before but I didn't post the quotes.
My apologies that I got a little out of line. I see the quote you posted but beware that article was written by Ted Reed who writes extensively about air travel but every article he writes is about CLT and how great all things CLT are. I think what is actually happening is the 767's are getting sent to PHL to open new routes that are out of range for the 757 but too small to support larger aircraft such as the A333 . Again I think we are going to see CLT lose some TATL once the A333 fleet is retired. I remember about a year ago when it looked like PHL was being drawn down, I saw a quote from Isom that said PHL will be the main transatlantic gateway for new routes if any are added and he said CLT will continue to grow domestically but would see less international in the future. I think if you scroll back through this thread you will see the quote... In any event its going to be interesting to see what happens
Feb 11, 2018, 7:16 am
#850
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Austin
Programs: AA EXP +2MM- LT PLT! HH Diamond
Posts: 6,086
I remember about a year ago when it looked like PHL was being drawn down, I saw a quote from Isom that said PHL will be the main transatlantic gateway for new routes if any are added and he said CLT will continue to grow domestically but would see less international in the future. I think if you scroll back through this thread you will see the quote... In any event its going to be interesting to see what happens
Feb 11, 2018, 10:30 am
#851
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AA Platinum, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 136
Sorry. I think my posts came off as more adversarial than intended. I only meant to make a point that I think CLT could support more TATL, and then as I found more info I added that to the discussion. As I've said, either good PHL connections to more places in the Southeast timed correctly so you can do one-stop TATL like you can with Delta(ATL) and United(IAD and ORD) or more TATL flights from CLT. It would probably be some balance of the two, but I hope they can figure out a way to balance these hubs right so everybody in each region has a good experience. PHL and CLT could both afford some improvements physically and in service.
As this article says, Madrid is probably the only spot they're really looking at for Iberia. I suppose until OW gets a stronger position in France and further east with AB gone in Central Europe, MAD, DUB, or HEL are probably all they'll look at for year-round. AMS would be nice for the lower landing/takeoff taxes, decent business base, and good launching point for the rest of central Europe, but I'm not sure that would translate into a profitable year-round route. I suppose AA would know best when they look at their load factors on those seasonal CLT routes.
I posted the article before but I didn't post the quotes.
As this article says, Madrid is probably the only spot they're really looking at for Iberia. I suppose until OW gets a stronger position in France and further east with AB gone in Central Europe, MAD, DUB, or HEL are probably all they'll look at for year-round. AMS would be nice for the lower landing/takeoff taxes, decent business base, and good launching point for the rest of central Europe, but I'm not sure that would translate into a profitable year-round route. I suppose AA would know best when they look at their load factors on those seasonal CLT routes.
I posted the article before but I didn't post the quotes.
Also the quote "As for Charlotte-Asia, Raja said the flight distance – it is about 6,875 miles between Charlotte and Tokyo – means a flight is operationally challenging because at times even an airplane such as the Boeing 787, a smaller long-range aircraft, would have to operate at less than full capacity to cover the distance." - all their US-China flts are longer than this except for LAX PEK marginally, and they are all operated by some variant of a 787?
Feb 12, 2018, 11:46 am
#852
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,449
This quote from the article makes zero sense "Under the plan, the 767s would no longer serve Charlotte. Instead, Charlotte would have access to more Airbus A330s, displaced from Philadelphia where 767s would be grouped." - Does AA know that 767s are not operating from CLT, and ALL their European routes are on A330s !
Also the quote "As for Charlotte-Asia, Raja said the flight distance – it is about 6,875 miles between Charlotte and Tokyo – means a flight is operationally challenging because at times even an airplane such as the Boeing 787, a smaller long-range aircraft, would have to operate at less than full capacity to cover the distance." - all their US-China flts are longer than this except for LAX PEK marginally, and they are all operated by some variant of a 787?
Also the quote "As for Charlotte-Asia, Raja said the flight distance – it is about 6,875 miles between Charlotte and Tokyo – means a flight is operationally challenging because at times even an airplane such as the Boeing 787, a smaller long-range aircraft, would have to operate at less than full capacity to cover the distance." - all their US-China flts are longer than this except for LAX PEK marginally, and they are all operated by some variant of a 787?
Feb 12, 2018, 3:03 pm
#853
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: NYC, SLC, LAX
Programs: AA EXP, UA Plat
Posts: 3,951
6,875 is not a distance where a 787 - any variant of it - would need to make take a weight penalty, in either direction.
Either the article is misquoting Raja or he gave a very simplified answer in lieu of going into more detail.
I am quite sure that the vp of network planning knows the range of his aircraft.
Either the article is misquoting Raja or he gave a very simplified answer in lieu of going into more detail.
I am quite sure that the vp of network planning knows the range of his aircraft.
Feb 12, 2018, 3:09 pm
#854
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 8,750
6,875 is not a distance where a 787 - any variant of it - would need to make take a weight penalty, in either direction.
Either the article is misquoting Raja or he gave a very simplified answer in lieu of going into more detail.
I am quite sure that the vp of network planning knows the range of his aircraft.
Either the article is misquoting Raja or he gave a very simplified answer in lieu of going into more detail.
I am quite sure that the vp of network planning knows the range of his aircraft.
Originally Posted by Forbes
Looking further ahead, if Airbus and Boeing eventually develop a middle-of-the-market aircraft between the single-aisle Boeing 737 and twin-aisle Boeing 757, “Charlotte is the ideal candidate” for such an aircraft, potentially for international service, Isom said.
Feb 12, 2018, 7:34 pm
#855
Moderator: Travel Safety/Security, Travel Tools, California, Los Angeles; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: LAX
Programs: oneword Emerald
Posts: 20,599