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Speculation: New American AAdvantage FF Program Features (Discussion)

Speculation: New American AAdvantage FF Program Features (Discussion)

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Old Dec 1, 14, 10:53 pm   -   Wikipost
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Whatís next

We plan to bring current Dividend Miles accounts into the AAdvantage program in 2015
(date as yet unspecified - JD). That means we will combine your award mileage balances, your Million Milerô balances, and your elite-qualifying activity from both programs. In the meantime, continue to book travel and earn miles as you normally would. We will follow up with you when we begin the process of integrating accounts, but rest assured your miles and elite status are safe as we work to combine the two programs.

It will take some time to fully integrate our loyalty programs, including everything from the systems that support them to bringing our terms and conditions in line with one another. We will be sure to keep you updated as changes occur
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Old Dec 17, 13, 5:36 pm
  #136  
 
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I don't think there's anything to be concerned about - at some point DM miles will become AA miles. When is another question.

In passing, I doubt that miles from any of the 17-18 carriers mentioned in the email being discussed will remain DM miles beyond the transition from 2 to 1 FF program. If miles are earned after the DM program ceases to exist I expect you'd get AA miles.

Jim
BoeingBoy is offline  
Old Dec 18, 13, 11:02 am
  #137  
 
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Originally Posted by rbnaidu View Post
Planning to top off the account with recent promotion from US ( Buy X Get Bonus X Miles upto 50000 ) , hoping the same will be converted/merged to AA Miles

Should i be concerned ??

Thanks
- Rbn
No.
broadwayblue is offline  
Old Dec 18, 13, 4:56 pm
  #138  
 
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Originally Posted by Plato90s View Post
Anyways... I read that announcement as indication the miles accumulated under the DM program will not be converted to the merged FF mileage program and could still be used for Star Alliance redemption.
I won't be rude and say you are flat out wrong on this theory, because technically we're all just speculating at this point. But I do think you are very wrong with your interpretation of the announcement. Not migrating earned DMs into the new AAdvantage is not really an option for them, unless they want to lose a lot of business from US' loyal travelers. AFAIK there has never been a merger where banked miles were completely lost in the transition.

I doubt the actual merging of mileage accounts will happen for another year at least. Until then you'll still be able to redeem your DMs - on US flights, AA flights, other OW members, and these listed code-share partners (which just happen to be in *A). You won't get any *A benefits when flying these partners. AA also has an array of non-OW partners where you can earn/redeem miles, and this is no different than that.

But at the end of the day, I think it's very safe to assume that at some point in the future your banked DM miles will migrate into the new FF program, just like pre-merger AA miles will be migrated into the new program.
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Old Dec 18, 13, 5:44 pm
  #139  
 
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Originally Posted by BoeingBoy View Post
. . . I doubt that miles from any of the 17-18 carriers mentioned in the email being discussed will remain DM miles beyond the transition from 2 to 1 FF program. If miles are earned after the DM program ceases to exist I expect you'd get AA miles.
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but I think I probably agree with you. I expect we will be able to get DM EQMs for flights on these airlines for 2014 even after the exit from *A. The question is how long after 2014 this will last. I'm hoping it will last at least through 2015.

Originally Posted by sjpmurph01 View Post
AFAIK there has never been a merger where banked miles were completely lost in the transition. . . . But at the end of the day, I think it's very safe to assume that at some point in the future your banked DM miles will migrate into the new FF program, just like pre-merger AA miles will be migrated into the new program.
As a former AmericaWest (HP) elite, I can confirm that the procedure there was first allowing both US and HP FF members to transfer miles from one account to the other, followed some significant amount of time later by a full-credit merge of the HP program miles into US's DM program.

BTW, I'm not sure whether the prior US's DM program allowed "unlimited"* domestic upgrades to all elites, but HP's did and this was continued in the successor DM program. I think it is a good bet (though not a sure one) that this policy will be migrated to AAdvantage. [* note: unlimited is very misleading, however, in that lower level elites are seldom upgraded because the higher level elites generally fill all the seats available for upgrade.]

I think these precedents are relevant because it is the same management (originally from HP) that is now running AA.
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Old Dec 18, 13, 6:28 pm
  #140  
 
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Originally Posted by PhoenixCMC View Post
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but I think I probably agree with you. I expect we will be able to get DM EQMs for flights on these airlines for 2014 even after the exit from *A. The question is how long after 2014 this will last. I'm hoping it will last at least through 2015.
I was trying to shorten what I expect to happen beginning today but my opinion and $5 might get you a cup of Starbucks:

Today: earn DMs and book on *A carriers. There's anecdotal evidence that some classes of service may be disappearing from some *A partners availability but nothing definite.

1 - At some point, probably by mid-January, you'll be able to book and earn miles on AA just as you would on US and vice versa - getting DM miles or AA miles as desired.

2 - At some later point you won't be able to book on *A carriers, so obviously won't be able to earn miles on them either.

3 - At some later point you will be able to book and earn on OW carriers.

4 - At some point the 2 FF programs will be combined and will contain all your AA and DM miles as AA miles.

#2 and #3 may coincide or not.

Somewhere between #1 and #4 you'll almost undoubtedly be able to transfer miles between your DM and AA accounts (if you don't have both you'll have to join the missing program to do this).

#1 seems to be the most sure date - Jan 7 - for reciprocal benefits. After that it's anyone's guess when the rest will happen except to say that after US leaving *A I'd guess it to be doubtful that you could book on *A and after US joins OW it's likely that you'll be able to book on OW.

I personally wouldn't count on there being two separate FF programs till the end of 2015. There's a good possibility that US will cease to exist before then although that depends on the FAA. However, combining FF programs is entirely in the hands of AAL - they could in theory do it at any time once the systems are ready and some decisions are made, whether that's this summer (2014) or next summer (2015).

Jim
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Old Dec 18, 13, 8:03 pm
  #141  
 
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I think we are all scr*wed

There is so much happening at AA that I am sure there is a huge devaluation coming. Both Delta and United have now devalued their programs charging more for less or charging MUCH more for using partner airlines in *Alliance. Up to 85% more in some J or F cases.

Cathay pacific now charges their own Asia Miles members 220,000 Asia miles for a First class North America HKG ticket.....AA charges us 135,000 AAdvantage miles. These will be rectified and soon. Also note that Cathay Pacific has filed suit in HKG to block Qantas partnering with Low Cost Carrier Hong Kong Airways to form a discount airline...They are not talking...Add in that Qantas now partners with Emirates (non one world) on their international flights and dropped BA.....there is much not right currently in the One World..and Angry carriers who are not partnering. I think AA announcing their first DFW- HKG flight may be the pre-cursor to Cathay leaving the One World....Which would be terrible for AA customers who go to Asia as JAL and Malaysian are far below where Cathay is on so many levels.

IMHO I would use your miles as soon as you can and book your trips.....I think AA will initiate the one world changes similar to Star Alliance, probably this March.....Then worry about merging US airways into the AAdvantage program later in the year. It is going to be a Very interesting year for American Airlines and her passengers. I am battening down my hatches and holding as many points as I can in other programs....The shoe will soon drop and loyalty will mean little.

I am an 8 Million mile member, most of it AIS miles not credit cards....ooh mine eyes have seen this before in the 80's 90's and 2000's......Change in the air. You have been warned.

Safe travels to all!
NYCtraveler is offline  
Old Dec 19, 13, 10:20 am
  #142  
 
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Originally Posted by PhoenixCMC View Post
BTW, I'm not sure whether the prior US's DM program allowed "unlimited"* domestic upgrades to all elites, but HP's did and this was continued in the successor DM program.
pmUS transitioned from AA-style sticker upgrades to UDUs a couple of years before the HP merger.

Originally Posted by BoeingBoy View Post
Today: earn DMs and book on *A carriers. There's anecdotal evidence that some classes of service may be disappearing from some *A partners availability but nothing definite.

1 - At some point, probably by mid-January, you'll be able to book and earn miles on AA just as you would on US and vice versa - getting DM miles or AA miles as desired.

2 - At some later point you won't be able to book on *A carriers, so obviously won't be able to earn miles on them either.

3 - At some later point you will be able to book and earn on OW carriers.

4 - At some point the 2 FF programs will be combined and will contain all your AA and DM miles as AA miles.

#2 and #3 may coincide or not.
#1 is confirmed as "early January"; #2 is confirmed as 3/30, and #3 is confirmed as 3/31. usairways.com/arriving, under the FAQ.
dtremit is offline  
Old Dec 19, 13, 10:53 am
  #143  
 
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Originally Posted by PhoenixCMC View Post
BTW, I'm not sure whether the prior US's DM program allowed "unlimited"* domestic upgrades to all elites, but HP's did and this was continued in the successor DM program. I think it is a good bet (though not a sure one) that this policy will be migrated to AAdvantage. [* note: unlimited is very misleading, however, in that lower level elites are seldom upgraded because the higher level elites generally fill all the seats available for upgrade.]

I think these precedents are relevant because it is the same management (originally from HP) that is now running AA.
Yes - DM today allows unlimited* domestic upgrades for all preferred levels.

I would, however, be very surprised if the new AAdvantage dropped the sticker system. It's been publicized many times that most of the new program will be modeled on the current AA, even though the US management team is taking over. And the sticker system - as confusing as it sounds to us since we are all used to the simplicity of unlimited* - seems to be a very well-liked feature for AA elites.

While the overall success rate for current SP, GP & PP will most likely decrease from what they're used to today, they'll at least have a fighting chance on occasions where they want to cash in stickers. That's just the unfortunately reality of becoming a small fish in a much larger pond. If they went to UDU's for all levels, the new largest-airline-in-the-world's upgrade waiting lists would easily put UA to shame (and Dougie won't want to pay for two TVs at every gate to fit all the names).

I'm just glad I was able to reach CP this year, so hopefully it'll be business as usual since EXP uses the UDU model.
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Old Dec 19, 13, 11:01 am
  #144  
 
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Originally Posted by sjpmurph01 View Post
Yes - DM today allows unlimited* domestic upgrades for all preferred levels.

I would, however, be very surprised if the new AAdvantage dropped the sticker system. It's been publicized many times that most of the new program will be modeled on the current AA, even though the US management team is taking over. And the sticker system - as confusing as it sounds to us since we are all used to the simplicity of unlimited* - seems to be a very well-liked feature for AA elites.

While the overall success rate for current SP, GP & PP will most likely decrease from what they're used to today, they'll at least have a fighting chance on occasions where they want to cash in stickers. That's just the unfortunately reality of becoming a small fish in a much larger pond. If they went to UDU's for all levels, the new largest-airline-in-the-world's upgrade waiting lists would easily put UA to shame (and Dougie won't want to pay for two TVs at every gate to fit all the names).

I'm just glad I was able to reach CP this year, so hopefully it'll be business as usual since EXP uses the UDU model.
Yes, with caveat that EP's companion must use stickers. CP's companion does not.

Safe Travels
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Old Dec 19, 13, 11:25 am
  #145  
 
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Originally Posted by GTITAN View Post
Yes, with caveat that EP's companion must use stickers. CP's companion does not.

Safe Travels
That was actually something I was curious about - since EXP don't seem to earn stickers while they enjoy UDUs, is the only option for them to buy the stickers for a companion? Or do they actually earn stickers even though they themselves would never need to use them?

I see that being a scenario they could maybe 'fix' while merging the programs.
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Old Dec 19, 13, 11:43 am
  #146  
 
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Originally Posted by sjpmurph01 View Post
That was actually something I was curious about - since EXP don't seem to earn stickers while they enjoy UDUs, is the only option for them to buy the stickers for a companion? Or do they actually earn stickers even though they themselves would never need to use them?

I see that being a scenario they could maybe 'fix' while merging the programs.
I don't think any fix will be for less revenue.
Yes, as EXP, if you have no stickers, you need to buy them for a companion.

Personally, I did not become EXP from one day to the other. I went through GLD, then a few years as PLT. Now I go between PLT and EXP depending on work travel.

As GLD and PLT, I saved my stickers for flights I considered it worth it. I do a lot of international travel and. I did not always clear on domestic flights. For all these reasons, I do not really burn many stickers and I have a bunch that I can use when I want to upgrade a companion.
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Old Dec 19, 13, 11:50 am
  #147  
 
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Originally Posted by dtremit View Post
#1 is confirmed as "early January"; #2 is confirmed as 3/30, and #3 is confirmed as 3/31. usairways.com/arriving, under the FAQ.
Thanks.

Jim
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Old Dec 19, 13, 12:21 pm
  #148  
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Originally Posted by NYCtraveler View Post
There is so much happening at AA that I am sure there is a huge devaluation coming. Both Delta and United have now devalued their programs charging more for less or charging MUCH more for using partner airlines in *Alliance. Up to 85% more in some J or F cases.
It is inevitable a devaluation is on the horizon. That I agree.

Originally Posted by NYCtraveler View Post
Cathay pacific now charges their own Asia Miles members 220,000 Asia miles for a First class North America HKG ticket.....AA charges us 135,000 AAdvantage miles. These will be rectified and soon.
However, how much CX charges and how much AA charges in mileage redemption will not equal. It has always been the case that for the same flights different airlines charges different mileage redemption upon their negotiated rate and their running cost of FFP. So you could not use CX's move to predict AA's move. But I agree with you AA will charge more than now at some stage of time.

Originally Posted by NYCtraveler View Post
Also note that Cathay Pacific has filed suit in HKG to block Qantas partnering with Low Cost Carrier Hong Kong Airways to form a discount airline...They are not talking...Add in that Qantas now partners with Emirates (non one world) on their international flights and dropped BA.....there is much not right currently in the One World..and Angry carriers who are not partnering. I think AA announcing their first DFW- HKG flight may be the pre-cursor to Cathay leaving the One World....Which would be terrible for AA customers who go to Asia as JAL and Malaysian are far below where Cathay is on so many levels.
Why? AA open this route to better connect with CX's network. Currently AA connect with CX in Shanghai and Tokyo. Now with AA's non-stop flights to HKG AA could connect at least 30 destinations in Australia, Southeast Asia and India from CX's network. It actually und CX and AA better. The cooperation between CX and AA now is deeper than ever. CX could codeshare AA's flight to DFW to connect to Central and South America with one stop from Hong Kong. It is a win-win for both AA and CX.

CX may not agree with QF but it does not mean QF is leaving, or CX is leaving. Flyers still have many oneworld connections including BA, CX, JL, MH and QR to Australia from Europe and Asia. QF's relationship with AA is continuing which is a good sign.

It is also a good sign for CX to fly to ORD and AA to fly from DFW. Neither CX nor QF is leaving oneworld soon.

Originally Posted by NYCtraveler View Post
IMHO I would use your miles as soon as you can and book your trips.....I think AA will initiate the one world changes similar to Star Alliance, probably this March.....Then worry about merging US airways into the AAdvantage program later in the year. It is going to be a Very interesting year for American Airlines and her passengers. I am battening down my hatches and holding as many points as I can in other programs....The shoe will soon drop and loyalty will mean little.
Please feel free to do so. You are entitled to believe whatever you believe. But to many other flyers the sky is not falling, nor CX and QF are leaving oneworld.

Originally Posted by NYCtraveler View Post
I am an 8 Million mile member, most of it AIS miles not credit cards....ooh mine eyes have seen this before in the 80's 90's and 2000's......Change in the air. You have been warned.

Safe travels to all!
Change is in the air but CX or QF are not leaving oneworld. Please do not impose your pessimistic opinions upon others and make others to believe sky is falling. Of course unless you have reliable source to indicate. But so far business is as usual, nothing has changed yet.
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Old Dec 19, 13, 12:43 pm
  #149  
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Originally Posted by sjpmurph01 View Post
But at the end of the day, I think it's very safe to assume that at some point in the future your banked DM miles will migrate into the new FF program, just like pre-merger AA miles will be migrated into the new program.
True, and I should have been more clear in saying that when I said that DM miles would not be merged, I should have said would not be immediately merged into the new program. My thought was that people would be allowed to keep a separate legacy DM balance for a while in order to redeem them for Star Alliance awards, which can't be done with AAdvantage miles.

Now that US Airways has made clear that, as of Mar 31, legacy DM balance can no longer be used to redeem on Star Alliance the possible outcomes have narrowed.

Since DM members won't be able to redeem against Star Alliance by the time the airlines merge the FF program, there's no residual value in keeping a separate legacy DM balance. I suspect it'll be done similar to the TWA program where people request either a migration or a merge of accounts into AAdvantage. I believe the current form of AAdvantage will define the vast majority of the combined program.



FWIW, there were some TWA mileage balances which got wiped out since they weren't transferred before the deadline.
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Old Dec 19, 13, 2:43 pm
  #150  
 
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Originally Posted by Plato90s View Post
I suspect it'll be done similar to the TWA program where people request either a migration or a merge of accounts into AAdvantage. [...] FWIW, there were some TWA mileage balances which got wiped out since they weren't transferred before the deadline.
TW is likely not a great example here, since TW was only acquired in pieces. I don't know of any other true mergers where active balances haven't been merged automatically and in full when the old program went away.

I do not think anyone will need to worry about losing US miles if they do not request a transfer.
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