Dec 12, 2013, 4:10 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
AA / US Fleet & Aircraft Changes 2015 on (Discussion and Speculation)
Please add summary information and important links to this wikipost
I'm interested in 2015 counts, especially on the regional side - I heard that ZW's contract is up this year and not sure what will happen there. 70 CR2s that AA can easily get rid of (I'm fairly sure they are ZW birds, not US planes sub-leased to ZW), but with fuel this low and no other customers for AirWis, ZW could offer a sweetheart deal to keep operating.
Does anyone know what planes Eagle is supposed to get this year?
Does anyone know what planes Eagle is supposed to get this year?
American Airlines Group to grow its regional fleet by 28 aircraft in 2015 even as it parks 21 ERJ140s
American Airlines and US Airways to finish 2015 with 30 fewer aircraft
For related threads on officially announced fleet changes, see:American Airlines and US Airways to finish 2015 with 30 fewer aircraft
AA Orders 60 Embraer 175 / E-175 + 30 Bombardier CRJ900
This thread deals with additions, withdrawals and changes to the combined AA and US fleet. please understand various sources may vary in their numbers and the airline may accelerate or slow aircraft disposition, or even change plans if operating conditions or expected deliveries change.
From the Dallas Morning News, 30 Jan 2015 <link>
American Airlines and US Airways to finish 2015 with 30 fewer aircraft, by Terry Maxon:
"Here are the year-end 2014 numbers compared to the projected numbers for the end of 2015:
Code:
Fleet 2015 2014 Change % Airbus A319 125 118 7 5.9% Airbus A320 55 64 -9 -14.1% Airbus A321 174 139 35 25.2% Airbus A330-200 15 15 0 0% Airbus A330-300 9 9 0 0% Boeing 737-800 264 246 18 7.3% Boeing 757 69 106 -37 -34.9% Boeing 767-200 0 6 -6 -100% Boeing 767-300 49 58 -9 -15.5% Boeing 777-200 47 47 0 0% Boeing 777-300 18 16 2 12.5% Boeing 787-8 12 0 12 ∞ Embraer E190 20 20 0 0% MD-80 96 139 -43 -30.9% Total 953 983 -30 -3.1%
Link to Historical DMN article on AAG fleet changes in 2014
NOTE: Being customer codes can reveal information as well: AA is 23 (ergo the "777-223ER") and US is B7.
AA B767-223ER went to "the boneyard" at ROW 16 Feb 2015. (vorellanaj)
Other aircraft fleet and movements information sources:
Link to AIRFLEETS.NET
Link to AirplaneSpotter.net AA fleet details and history
Link to AirplaneSpotters.net US fleet and history
Link to FlightRadar24 AA fleet listing and flight routing
Link to FlightRadar24 US fleet listing and flight routing
Link to American Airlines fleet statistics
Link to US Airways fleet composition (no stats)
Link to FlightAware flight tracking
Link to FlightStats
AA / US Fleet & Aircraft Changes 2015 on (Discussion and Speculation)
Dec 16, 2013, 6:15 pm
#76
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If the new AA takes those A330s and doesn't negotiate out of them it will just highlight the ridiculous decision to have Parker and Kirby at the helm......so I expect fully for them to take the A330s and continue to just make maintenance and everything else a growing cost.
And historically AA has never had the most rationale of fleets - at one point I think they had 747SP, MD11, 767, 757, 727s, MD80s and F100s - so Boeing, McDonald Douglas and Fokker.
Dec 16, 2013, 7:09 pm
#77
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Didn't the recent announcement for the 90 plus E175 and CRJ-900 state that there would be First, MCE and Economy?
Dec 16, 2013, 7:53 pm
#78
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Yes and the majority are slated for US regional where they'll replace those aging CRJ200s. Since both UA and DL now have enhanced pitch economy seating, it's pretty certain MCE will remain and added to the US fleet. AA realized it made a mistake by removing MRTC (more room through coach), at least from a few rows in the front.
Dec 16, 2013, 9:35 pm
#79
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Dec 17, 2013, 2:33 am
#80
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Posts about the new livery have been removed. Members are encouraged to follow and participate in the discussion in the dedicated thread here. 
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Dec 17, 2013, 5:20 am
#81
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I think it was discussed when AA split its order that the Boeing and Airbus fleets will each be so large that there isn't a loss of efficiency or extra costs.
And historically AA has never had the most rationale of fleets - at one point I think they had 747SP, MD11, 767, 757, 727s, MD80s and F100s - so Boeing, McDonald Douglas and Fokker.
And historically AA has never had the most rationale of fleets - at one point I think they had 747SP, MD11, 767, 757, 727s, MD80s and F100s - so Boeing, McDonald Douglas and Fokker.
As has been highlighted COUNTLESS threads, if your service offering is the same, and you are large and bloated you are simply putting your entire company on the back of the ability to offer better prices. That creates ZERO barrier to entry, and overall puts AA on the same path that employees and many pax have been complaining about for the last decade.
So, when I see an airline make the decision to take delivery of a plane designed 15+ years ago over it's more efficient, safer alternatives I have to question the decision making process. Actually, any investment banker or PE group saddled with the responsibility to choosing a management team for a company would unless, however, the choosing of the team had nothing to do with te intended success of the company because that was not the concern of the IB / PE group.
I will reserve total judgement until I see the final decisions. But the A330 orders could easily be replaced by a few more 7772, 77w or 787 orders. We are not talking THAT many on order for US.
Cheers,
AA777
Dec 17, 2013, 5:35 am
#82
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I recently flew 2 back to back trips from CLT to Europe (CDG, LHR) in US economy and will never do that again. If MCE is yanked, it is only a 37 minute flight to the worlds largest hub, ATL, where Delta offers Economy Comfort. Have flown Delta's Economy Comfort and really enjoyed it. Not knowing what the new AA will do regarding MCE, I booked upcoming trips to FRA and AMS on Delta's Economy Comfort!
Dec 17, 2013, 7:25 am
#83
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So, when I see an airline make the decision to take delivery of a plane designed 15+ years ago over it's more efficient, safer alternatives I have to question the decision making process. Actually, any investment banker or PE group saddled with the responsibility to choosing a management team for a company would unless, however, the choosing of the team had nothing to do with te intended success of the company because that was not the concern of the IB / PE group.
I will reserve total judgement until I see the final decisions. But the A330 orders could easily be replaced by a few more 7772, 77w or 787 orders. We are not talking THAT many on order for US.
I will reserve total judgement until I see the final decisions. But the A330 orders could easily be replaced by a few more 7772, 77w or 787 orders. We are not talking THAT many on order for US.
It's pretty unlikely they could walk from their Airbus obligation at this late date without some penalties -- those A330s are likely far down the manufacturing process. Perhaps a year ago you could have turned them into more A321 orders penalty free, but today? It isn't like Airbus has a huge order book for the A330s and some of those units are already problematic to place (I'm looking at you, Kingfisher).
The A330 is no worse than the 772s, which they're going to refit and operate for another 10+ years no doubt. To argue that this is somehow a reason to distrust the management team is just being mean. Best choice given the circumstances, obviously. If they could magically wave a wand and trade them in for a similar number of 788s... but that ain't reality as we know it, is it?
Dec 17, 2013, 7:26 am
#84
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I recently flew 2 back to back trips from CLT to Europe (CDG, LHR) in US economy and will never do that again. If MCE is yanked, it is only a 37 minute flight to the worlds largest hub, ATL, where Delta offers Economy Comfort. Have flown Delta's Economy Comfort and really enjoyed it. Not knowing what the new AA will do regarding MCE, I booked upcoming trips to FRA and AMS on Delta's Economy Comfort!
Dec 17, 2013, 7:41 am
#85
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I recently flew 2 back to back trips from CLT to Europe (CDG, LHR) in US economy and will never do that again. If MCE is yanked, it is only a 37 minute flight to the worlds largest hub, ATL, where Delta offers Economy Comfort. Have flown Delta's Economy Comfort and really enjoyed it. Not knowing what the new AA will do regarding MCE, I booked upcoming trips to FRA and AMS on Delta's Economy Comfort!
Dec 17, 2013, 8:00 am
#86
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It was announced a long time ago (can't see why after the money they spent on design they wouldn't) that F would be pulled from the 772s and business would be replaced with a J seat rumored to be a but different from the 77w seat because of the need to have a a slightly better product since there will be no F. Of course we are lowly slugs compared to the all mighty and brilliant Doug and Scott show, so what did AA know, probably best to have 10 business class seats from 1993 and just fill the crap out of the rest of the plane with regular economy seats and set the record for most pax crammed into a 772 with some vending machines in the front and back where the galleys were that pax can go up and deposit a few bucks in for prepackaged sandwiches and snacks and drinks.
Cheers,
AA777
Cheers,
AA777
Your right, HISTORICALLY, they have not and that was the point of the huge aircraft order and then BK. It was supposed to streamline their operations and choose a different business model in which you create a product that no one else has.
As has been highlighted COUNTLESS threads, if your service offering is the same, and you are large and bloated you are simply putting your entire company on the back of the ability to offer better prices. That creates ZERO barrier to entry, and overall puts AA on the same path that employees and many pax have been complaining about for the last decade.
So, when I see an airline make the decision to take delivery of a plane designed 15+ years ago over it's more efficient, safer alternatives I have to question the decision making process. Actually, any investment banker or PE group saddled with the responsibility to choosing a management team for a company would unless, however, the choosing of the team had nothing to do with te intended success of the company because that was not the concern of the IB / PE group.
I will reserve total judgement until I see the final decisions. But the A330 orders could easily be replaced by a few more 7772, 77w or 787 orders. We are not talking THAT many on order for US.
Cheers,
AA777
As has been highlighted COUNTLESS threads, if your service offering is the same, and you are large and bloated you are simply putting your entire company on the back of the ability to offer better prices. That creates ZERO barrier to entry, and overall puts AA on the same path that employees and many pax have been complaining about for the last decade.
So, when I see an airline make the decision to take delivery of a plane designed 15+ years ago over it's more efficient, safer alternatives I have to question the decision making process. Actually, any investment banker or PE group saddled with the responsibility to choosing a management team for a company would unless, however, the choosing of the team had nothing to do with te intended success of the company because that was not the concern of the IB / PE group.
I will reserve total judgement until I see the final decisions. But the A330 orders could easily be replaced by a few more 7772, 77w or 787 orders. We are not talking THAT many on order for US.
Cheers,
AA777
Beyond that, I still haven't seen you counter the argument that a mixed fleet is a negative thing. As elitetraveler said, the idea behind the old AA's split Airbus/Boeing order was that each fleet would be so large that there's no loss of efficiency or introduction of extra cost. Delta has definitely proved this works, so why not at AA?
It sounds like you just have some blind bias towards Boeing that impedes any sort of rational analysis of the situation.
Dec 17, 2013, 8:09 am
#87
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Dec 17, 2013, 8:17 am
#88
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First, you know that the 777 was designed 20+ years ago, and has been flying in commercial service for 18 years, right?
Beyond that, I still haven't seen you counter the argument that a mixed fleet is a negative thing. As elitetraveler said, the idea behind the old AA's split Airbus/Boeing order was that each fleet would be so large that there's no loss of efficiency or introduction of extra cost. Delta has definitely proved this works, so why not at AA?
It sounds like you just have some blind bias towards Boeing that impedes any sort of rational analysis of the situation.
Beyond that, I still haven't seen you counter the argument that a mixed fleet is a negative thing. As elitetraveler said, the idea behind the old AA's split Airbus/Boeing order was that each fleet would be so large that there's no loss of efficiency or introduction of extra cost. Delta has definitely proved this works, so why not at AA?
It sounds like you just have some blind bias towards Boeing that impedes any sort of rational analysis of the situation.
So I'm not sure if this is an issue, but it seems like a potential flag to me..... -->Age distribution of the a330 fleet. For a very large fleet of an aircraft type it would seem to me that it wouldn't be an issue, but the New AA is going to have a small-ish fleet of a330s when measured against the wide age distribution of those frames. When retirements come, won't the costs/frame on property increase towards the end of the end of the a330s life in the fleet when compared to a much larger fleet of a type.
Dec 17, 2013, 8:30 am
#89
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Dec 17, 2013, 8:45 am
#90
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Boeing claim that, for a typical 3000nm mission, The A330-300 block fuel per seat is 3% higher than the 777-200ER, and its cash operating costs per seat are 6% higher. They also claim that the relative Cash Operating Cost (COC) per seat-km of a 777-200ER is 11% and 13% lower than those of an A330-200 on 3,000 and 6,000 nm missions. You can read all of their 77E-vs-332/333 claims here. It is definitely worth noting that these are Boeing's numbers, so take them how you will. That said, with substantially less range and cargo capacity, I think it's fair to say the A330 is at a disadvantage to the 777-200ER.
This is total speculation, as I have no idea what the pricetag is on a 777 vs. an A330, but just a thought.