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Originally Posted by SFO_FT
(Post 28012120)
Actually, domestic average airfares, by route and carrier, are collected and distributed by the DOT. Carriers are required to provide this data to the government and anyone can see it. For example, between SF and NY for one of the quarters in 2016, the average UA fare was $412 while for Virgin America it was $298.
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Agree. To estimate the profitability, one would take the fares, estimated load factor and seat capacity and then back out a cost per seat mile, which also is available publicly. Network carriers are always challenged to determine individual route profitability, but at least one can get a general feel for profitability. At those fares, I would assume those routes are profitable.
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Originally Posted by ryan182
(Post 28011708)
I don't think that AA releases details on a per-route basis. I do know that fares on this market have dropped a lot since Mint started (Thanks B9!!). I've flow in F on this route 4 times the past 12 months, 2 were J bookings upgraded to F and the others the delta between J and F on the days was small enough that it was worth paying the extra but in general the lowest you see J is ~$650 o/w and F is $1200 o/w. Given J is 2-2 and F is 1-1 and about the same length I'd guess that F occupies roughly the space of 2 J seats so the premium of 2x from a space perspective probably makes sense. What probably really matters is how many in F or J are on I or A fares vs F/J since the delta between the lowest J and a flexible J fare is pretty high ($650 vs $3K)
I think I recall that sometime ago the union removed the requirement for 3 cabin F, though I'm sure some still get it but not sure how much the fact that AA has F and others do not is a factor. |
You know, I've often thought of entering the priesthood
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I overheard one of the FAs talking recently on a transcon. Sounds like they might be considering removing a number of F seats and putting in more J seats. They would still have F but it would be much smaller only a couple of rows. Has anyone else heard this?
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Originally Posted by lightbulbs
(Post 28011663)
I've always been curious as to the economic analysis on the 321T configuration. In particular
- Three class vs Two class. What's the space efficiency difference between how F and J are configured and how much of a price premium does F need to command to be worthwhile? - How much load factor and price premium the F and J cabins need to command to offset the low density of the plane overall. It basically flies just over half the passengers of a similarly sized 321B. - Has AA ever released CASM and RASM stats specific to the transcon routes? - How do the profitability numbers compare JFK/SFO/LAX/MIA? I presume LAX/JFK is the cash cow given the entertainment labor contracts? - Ultimately did AA make a good choice compared to the configurations of DL, UA, B6? - Does AA make much/if any money on the advance O fares in Y? Flying across the country for $130-140 seems to be a pretty good deal. AA is a big carrier with lots of fleet flexibility. The observed facts that they haven't significantly changed the model - 3-class 321Ts and route frequencies comparable to what they started with a few years ago - suggests they're satisfied with it. |
Originally Posted by CityFlyerNYC
(Post 28013268)
I overheard one of the FAs talking recently on a transcon. Sounds like they might be considering removing a number of F seats and putting in more J seats. They would still have F but it would be much smaller only a couple of rows. Has anyone else heard this?
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I remember Doug Parker answering a question from a reporter a few years ago about if there was anything that had surprised him in a positive way about the old AA when he took over. He said that he and his team were highly skeptical of the 3 class trancon before they arrived but were very surprised and pleased with how well it did.
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Flying LAX-JFK.
All main cabin extra seats free on A321T. I'm a window guy, could have had the nice space in tow 11, but went with 13A |
Transcon A321 on JFK-DCA route?
AA website and EF is showing AA 2183 as a weekly (6/3-8/19) Saturday JFK-DCA flight that flying a A321T with 3-class configuration.
Is this for real? Or just some technical glitch? |
Originally Posted by werDrD
(Post 28170658)
AA website and EF is showing AA 2183 as a weekly (6/3-8/19) Saturday JFK-DCA flight that flying a A321T with 3-class configuration.
Is this for real? Or just some technical glitch? |
Originally Posted by werDrD
(Post 28170658)
AA website and EF is showing AA 2183 as a weekly (6/3-8/19) Saturday JFK-DCA flight that flying a A321T with 3-class configuration.
Is this for real? Or just some technical glitch? |
Originally Posted by crazyarmadillo
(Post 27817217)
a very good comparison of the two cabins - I would also suggest the F cabin privacy especially at 1A and 1F (if traveling with someone) and the FA dealing with less customers, are the key differentials. So if that isnt what you look for in a flight, then Biz is just as good.
I have spoken with others who travel together - they prefer Biz, so each to their own , I for one, much prefer 1af. And the crew have always been great when sitting there, even tho sometimes, they have to leave the fruit and snacks and do their paperwork at the front sometimes. |
Originally Posted by jmr50
(Post 28176094)
I fly both biz and first on this route and while I agree with the privacy angle, the menu and wine seems identical to me.
Also, I think wines are different, or at least First has real Champagne (Lanson Black on my last trips). Either way, it's not that significant of a difference. It's more about increased privacy/direct aisle access/no seatmate, and in theory more attentive service. |
Originally Posted by ijgordon
(Post 28176692)
Pretty sure there's an extra entree choice in First, and plating (if not portions) are larger/nicer.
Also, I think wines are different, or at least First has real Champagne (Lanson Black on my last trips). Either way, it's not that significant of a difference. It's more about increased privacy/direct aisle access/no seatmate, and in theory more attentive service. Given the choice and budget I can't imagine ever picking biz over F on this plane. I appreciate it's no so for everybody, to me it's a no-brainer. |
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