ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)
Jul 25, 2017, 11:18 am
#1081
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: South Florida
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Posts: 11,329
Hi all,
Long time lurker, second time poster. I had a flight with AA to San Diego (WAW-LHR-JFK-SAN). my LHR to JFK flight got delayed 3hours and 26 minutes. This delay made me lost my JFK-SAN flight and I arrived 11+hours late to San Diego. I already contacted AA and this is what I got:
"As you know, European Union Regulation (EC) No. 261/2004 of the European Parliament and Council has established common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of cancelations or long delays of flights. Under this regulation, passengers are entitled to established levels of compensation, depending on the length of delay.
Our records indicate flight 105 was delayed which resulted in arrival 4+ hours later than planned. Therefore, we offer you one of the following forms of compensation.
A. Monetary payment of 300EUR per person - or -
B. Transportation voucher in the amount of 400USD per person which may be used to purchase travel on American Airlines for you, a friend, or relative."
I reached back because I think I'm entitled to 600 euros, not 300. and this is what i got back:
"Thank you for contacting us again regarding your recent travel.
Our review of flight AA105 on July 15, 2017, confirms flight AA105 departed London, (an EU Member State) and arrived in New York (a non-EU Member State) 206 minutes later than scheduled. Since it was more than 3 hours but less than 4 hours delayed to the gateway city of New York (USA) and the missed connecting flight was not departing from an EU Member State, there is not any further mandated compensation warranted beyond the 300EUR or 400USD voucher previously offered. Accordingly, we must respectfully decline additional compensation and adjustments based on the EC 261/2004 regulation. (Folkerts v Air France/Sanghvi v. Cathay Pacific)."
I'm pretty sure i'm entitled to the 600 euros, not 300. i quoted the new guidelines released on jun 2016 that clearly states that the connection counts as part of the same flight/delay but no dice, got a call this morning saying that for AA the delay covered under ec 261/2004 is the LHR-JFK not the connection.
Should i just take the 300 and call it a day? if I try to get the full 600, how can i do it, as its clear that this is a done deal for them.
Thanks!
Long time lurker, second time poster. I had a flight with AA to San Diego (WAW-LHR-JFK-SAN). my LHR to JFK flight got delayed 3hours and 26 minutes. This delay made me lost my JFK-SAN flight and I arrived 11+hours late to San Diego. I already contacted AA and this is what I got:
"As you know, European Union Regulation (EC) No. 261/2004 of the European Parliament and Council has established common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of cancelations or long delays of flights. Under this regulation, passengers are entitled to established levels of compensation, depending on the length of delay.
Our records indicate flight 105 was delayed which resulted in arrival 4+ hours later than planned. Therefore, we offer you one of the following forms of compensation.
A. Monetary payment of 300EUR per person - or -
B. Transportation voucher in the amount of 400USD per person which may be used to purchase travel on American Airlines for you, a friend, or relative."
I reached back because I think I'm entitled to 600 euros, not 300. and this is what i got back:
"Thank you for contacting us again regarding your recent travel.
Our review of flight AA105 on July 15, 2017, confirms flight AA105 departed London, (an EU Member State) and arrived in New York (a non-EU Member State) 206 minutes later than scheduled. Since it was more than 3 hours but less than 4 hours delayed to the gateway city of New York (USA) and the missed connecting flight was not departing from an EU Member State, there is not any further mandated compensation warranted beyond the 300EUR or 400USD voucher previously offered. Accordingly, we must respectfully decline additional compensation and adjustments based on the EC 261/2004 regulation. (Folkerts v Air France/Sanghvi v. Cathay Pacific)."
I'm pretty sure i'm entitled to the 600 euros, not 300. i quoted the new guidelines released on jun 2016 that clearly states that the connection counts as part of the same flight/delay but no dice, got a call this morning saying that for AA the delay covered under ec 261/2004 is the LHR-JFK not the connection.
Should i just take the 300 and call it a day? if I try to get the full 600, how can i do it, as its clear that this is a done deal for them.
Thanks!
Jul 25, 2017, 11:33 am
#1082
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,543
It is an argument that AA and EK try to make and there are cases that have been going to the UK Court of Appeal on thins ( Gahan vs Emirates and Buckley vs Emirates ) but EK seems to have pulled out from the case
The CAA also has stated that such delays are to be considered as a single delay which leads to payment of EUR600
There is an article on this at https://gettingthedealthrough.com/ar...er-delay-claim and https://gettingthedealthrough.com/ar...rns-ec-2612004
The CAA also has stated that such delays are to be considered as a single delay which leads to payment of EUR600
There is an article on this at https://gettingthedealthrough.com/ar...er-delay-claim and https://gettingthedealthrough.com/ar...rns-ec-2612004
Jul 25, 2017, 1:00 pm
#1083
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PMD
Programs: UA*G, NW, AA-G. WR-P, HH-G, IHG-S, ALL. TT-GE.
Posts: 2,907
Unlike most European carriers, AA not only publishes, but includes in the contract accepted by the passenger a time by which the passenger must be at the departure gate. This is not conformance for some arbitrary location in the airport, it is the place where one must physically be in order to swipe or have scanned one's boarding pass. What some Scottish judge said in a non-precedential case about another carrier's apparently arbitrary cutoff, is not only irrelevant but has nothing whatsoever to do with OP's situation.
Jul 25, 2017, 2:20 pm
#1084
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
You do, however, need to read EC 261/2004. If you do, you will see that it does not even apply to passengers who do not appear properly ticketed as required by the carrier.
Whether you like it or not, there are reasons for deadlines at the gate, e.g., that the timely loading of aircraft leads to timely departures. But, it is immaterial as it is the law.
Good luck with your argument.
Jul 25, 2017, 11:02 pm
#1085
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: AUS
Programs: AA Exec Platinum/MM, DL Gold/MM, Hilton Diamond, Accor Platinum, Hertz Presidents Circle
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Our review of flight AA105 on July 15, 2017, confirms flight AA105 departed London, (an EU Member State) and arrived in New York (a non-EU Member State) 206 minutes later than scheduled. Since it was more than 3 hours but less than 4 hours delayed to the gateway city of New York (USA) and the missed connecting flight was not departing from an EU Member State, there is not any further mandated compensation warranted beyond the 300EUR or 400USD voucher previously offered. Accordingly, we must respectfully decline additional compensation and adjustments based on the EC 261/2004 regulation. (Folkerts v Air France/Sanghvi v. Cathay Pacific)."[/I]
I'm pretty sure i'm entitled to the 600 euros, not 300. i quoted the new guidelines released on jun 2016 that clearly states that the connection counts as part of the same flight/delay but no dice, got a call this morning saying that for AA the delay covered under ec 261/2004 is the LHR-JFK not the connection.
Should i just take the 300 and call it a day? if I try to get the full 600, how can i do it, as its clear that this is a done deal for them.
Thanks!
I'm pretty sure i'm entitled to the 600 euros, not 300. i quoted the new guidelines released on jun 2016 that clearly states that the connection counts as part of the same flight/delay but no dice, got a call this morning saying that for AA the delay covered under ec 261/2004 is the LHR-JFK not the connection.
Should i just take the 300 and call it a day? if I try to get the full 600, how can i do it, as its clear that this is a done deal for them.
Thanks!
The regulation clearly states final destination on the ticket. A quick web search didn't reveal a lot of useful information on how a connection in the US to a domestic destination is handled. Hopefully there will be some actual experience posted here.
Jul 26, 2017, 12:52 pm
#1086
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: St. Louis, MO - AA PLT/2.98MM (Lifetime PLT), Delta PM, SPG Gold, AMEX Plat
Programs: TW Elite (RIP), CO OnePass
Posts: 1,923
AA booked us with AA miles on a one-way flight from Helsinki to JFK via Manchester. The Manchester to JFK flight was scheduled to depart 50 minutes after the flight from Helsinki, operated by AA partner Finnair, was scheduled to arrive. In fact, the fight touched down 5 minutes early, but there was a short delay getting off the plane, apparently due some confusion among the Manchester ground crew.
AY-AA II 1.30 ALL - UNITED STATES
Greg
Jul 26, 2017, 2:28 pm
#1087
Join Date: Nov 2015
Programs: BAEC Gold, *A Gold
Posts: 127
All,
I need your help to understand the regulation.
I was on the following itinerary LHR-JFK-BOS.
The LHR-JFK segment was delayed for more than 3 hours resulting in a misconnect to Boston and was rebooked the day after.
Would I only be eligible for the segment delay and hence receive 300 EUR or since the delay to the final destination is more than 4 hours would I be due the 600 EUR?
Thank you for your help!
I need your help to understand the regulation.
I was on the following itinerary LHR-JFK-BOS.
The LHR-JFK segment was delayed for more than 3 hours resulting in a misconnect to Boston and was rebooked the day after.
Would I only be eligible for the segment delay and hence receive 300 EUR or since the delay to the final destination is more than 4 hours would I be due the 600 EUR?
Thank you for your help!
Jul 26, 2017, 2:37 pm
#1088
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Canada, USA, Europe
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 31,452
It's arrival at your final destination that counts. Was this all on one ticket?
Jul 26, 2017, 2:59 pm
#1090
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,543
If you take it to court, it may get held up until the court of appeal actually rules
Jul 26, 2017, 3:40 pm
#1091
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
You should be due EUR 600 because your final ticketed destination was BOS and you arrived at BOS more than four hours late.
Recent non-binding guidance issued by the EC adopts the "final ticketed destination" view of several courts as an EU-wide standard. But, it is non-binding. AA does not accept it.
It is a line in the sand for AA and not about your extra EUR 300, but about thousands of similar situations.
Your options are to take the EUR 300 and be done with it, to sue in SCC (UK permits telephonic hearings), or to turn this over to claims agency and pay 25-33% of the recovery.
If you go to a claims agency and win, you will see somewhere around EUR 390 (EUR 600 less fee). If you lose, you get nothing. If you go to SCC, you will see UE 600 if you win and EUR 0 if you lose. If you accept the AA offer, you have EUR 300 in cash in hand now (or soon).
Only you can determine your risk tolerance.
Recent non-binding guidance issued by the EC adopts the "final ticketed destination" view of several courts as an EU-wide standard. But, it is non-binding. AA does not accept it.
It is a line in the sand for AA and not about your extra EUR 300, but about thousands of similar situations.
Your options are to take the EUR 300 and be done with it, to sue in SCC (UK permits telephonic hearings), or to turn this over to claims agency and pay 25-33% of the recovery.
If you go to a claims agency and win, you will see somewhere around EUR 390 (EUR 600 less fee). If you lose, you get nothing. If you go to SCC, you will see UE 600 if you win and EUR 0 if you lose. If you accept the AA offer, you have EUR 300 in cash in hand now (or soon).
Only you can determine your risk tolerance.
Jul 26, 2017, 3:44 pm
#1092
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,543
You should be due EUR 600 because your final ticketed destination was BOS and you arrived at BOS more than four hours late.
Recent non-binding guidance issued by the EC adopts the "final ticketed destination" view of several courts as an EU-wide standard. But, it is non-binding. AA does not accept it.
It is a line in the sand for AA and not about your extra EUR 300, but about thousands of similar situations.
Your options are to take the EUR 300 and be done with it, to sue in SCC (UK permits telephonic hearings), or to turn this over to claims agency and pay 25-33% of the recovery.
If you go to a claims agency and win, you will see somewhere around EUR 390 (EUR 600 less fee). If you lose, you get nothing. If you go to SCC, you will see UE 600 if you win and EUR 0 if you lose. If you accept the AA offer, you have EUR 300 in cash in hand now (or soon).
Only you can determine your risk tolerance.
Recent non-binding guidance issued by the EC adopts the "final ticketed destination" view of several courts as an EU-wide standard. But, it is non-binding. AA does not accept it.
It is a line in the sand for AA and not about your extra EUR 300, but about thousands of similar situations.
Your options are to take the EUR 300 and be done with it, to sue in SCC (UK permits telephonic hearings), or to turn this over to claims agency and pay 25-33% of the recovery.
If you go to a claims agency and win, you will see somewhere around EUR 390 (EUR 600 less fee). If you lose, you get nothing. If you go to SCC, you will see UE 600 if you win and EUR 0 if you lose. If you accept the AA offer, you have EUR 300 in cash in hand now (or soon).
Only you can determine your risk tolerance.
Jul 26, 2017, 6:32 pm
#1093
Join Date: Nov 2015
Programs: BAEC Gold, *A Gold
Posts: 127
You should be due EUR 600 because your final ticketed destination was BOS and you arrived at BOS more than four hours late.
Recent non-binding guidance issued by the EC adopts the "final ticketed destination" view of several courts as an EU-wide standard. But, it is non-binding. AA does not accept it.
It is a line in the sand for AA and not about your extra EUR 300, but about thousands of similar situations.
Your options are to take the EUR 300 and be done with it, to sue in SCC (UK permits telephonic hearings), or to turn this over to claims agency and pay 25-33% of the recovery.
If you go to a claims agency and win, you will see somewhere around EUR 390 (EUR 600 less fee). If you lose, you get nothing. If you go to SCC, you will see UE 600 if you win and EUR 0 if you lose. If you accept the AA offer, you have EUR 300 in cash in hand now (or soon).
Only you can determine your risk tolerance.
Recent non-binding guidance issued by the EC adopts the "final ticketed destination" view of several courts as an EU-wide standard. But, it is non-binding. AA does not accept it.
It is a line in the sand for AA and not about your extra EUR 300, but about thousands of similar situations.
Your options are to take the EUR 300 and be done with it, to sue in SCC (UK permits telephonic hearings), or to turn this over to claims agency and pay 25-33% of the recovery.
If you go to a claims agency and win, you will see somewhere around EUR 390 (EUR 600 less fee). If you lose, you get nothing. If you go to SCC, you will see UE 600 if you win and EUR 0 if you lose. If you accept the AA offer, you have EUR 300 in cash in hand now (or soon).
Only you can determine your risk tolerance.
My itinerary started actually in Dublin, I guess I need to call on different authorities if I want to fight this?
Jul 26, 2017, 6:45 pm
#1094
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Not necessarily. You could file this in Ireland or the UK. It is simply that UK SCC's permit telephonic hearings. Not sure the same thing is true in Ireland. Telephone is, of course, critical because the claim is a bit self-defeating if you have to fly over for your hearing.
Jul 28, 2017, 7:15 am
#1095
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bracebridge, ON
Posts: 341
Different scenario:
AA Miami to London
BA London to Budapest
BA flight is 4+ hours late into Budapest
EU261 is due, but is it due for the entire ticket or just for the short distance.
In the past when I fly the same route BA all the way, it was ruled that the entire ticketed journey counted towards the delay, therefore 600 euros was due, but with AA flying overseas I'm not sure how this would be treated.
AA Miami to London
BA London to Budapest
BA flight is 4+ hours late into Budapest
EU261 is due, but is it due for the entire ticket or just for the short distance.
In the past when I fly the same route BA all the way, it was ruled that the entire ticketed journey counted towards the delay, therefore 600 euros was due, but with AA flying overseas I'm not sure how this would be treated.
