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GUIDE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and AA

GUIDE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and AA

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Old Aug 11, 19, 3:49 pm   -   Wikipost
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Wiki Link
Note update - 2016 June 10
EU clarification on EC261/2004
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...16)3502_en.pdf

Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishes common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91.

AA email address for EC 261 claims: [email protected]

Code:
The regulation applies to any passenger:
 
 - departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to 
 which the Treaty applies;
 
The protection accorded to passengers departing from or to an airport located in a Member State should be extended to those leaving an airport located in a third country for one situated in a Member State, when a Community carrier operates the flight and where a community carrier is defined as any carrier licensed to operate within that community.
- departing from an EU member state, or travelling to an EU member state - on an airline based in an EU member state if that person has: - a confirmed reservation on the flight, and - arrived in time for check-in as indicated on the ticket or communication from the airline airline, or, if no time is so indicated, no less than 45 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time of the flight or - have been transferred from the flight for which he/she held a reservation to some other flight unless - the passenger is travelling on a free or discounted ticket not available to the general public, other than a ticket obtained from a frequent flyer programme. It does not apply to helicopter flights, to any flight not operated by a fixed-wing aircraft, nor to flights from Gibraltar Airport.[1] (wikipedia)
Link to article on Wikipedia: "The Flight Delay Compensation Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 is a regulation establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding, flight cancellations, or long delays of flights. It repealed Regulation (EEC) No 295/91, and went into effect on 18 February 2005. It sets out the entitlements of air passengers when a flight that they intend to travel on is delayed or cancelled, or when they are denied boarding to such a flight due to overbooking, or when the airline is unable to accommodate them in the class they had booked." It applies to Member States and includes French overseas territories.

NOTE: Heretofore, the ruling only applied to flights leaving Europe on all airlines, or flights from anywhere to Europe, on European airlines. Most recently (July 2019), a new European Court of Justice ruling commands that even flights which connect to non-EU airlines, but were booked as one ticket from the EU must be compensated. (link to article on godsavethepoints.com)

Link to EC 261/2004 text in several languages.

Link to language (English) Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF) of EC 261/2004

Link to description by Air Passenger Rights a "multilingual consumer website explaining the rights of air passengers in the European Union."

Link to contact details of EC 261/2004 enforcement bodies

Link to English language EC 261/2004 compliaint form PDF

Email for EC claims at AA.com: [email protected] (verified Aug 2016, can take 4 weeks for a reply)

Link to BAEC Forum lengthy EC261/2004 thread.

Link to thisismoney.co.uk article explaining EC261/2004.

Link to travel sort.com blog on recovering EC261/2004 compensation from American Airlines.

[B]Previous posts from this thread have been archived to ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)

“Despite all this, expect airlines to give you a hard time with your claim. File a claim on your own, but if you find yourself stonewalled or denied unfairly, enlisting a firm like AirHelp or Bott & Co can be huge, since they fight the case for you, in exchange for a 25% cut of the recovered cash. A 75% chunk of something is better than 100% of nothing.” (godsavethepoints.com)

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Old Aug 10, 18, 9:09 am
  #796  
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A reminder: this is the American Airlines | AAdvantage forum on FlyerTalk.

This is not OMNI or OMNI P/R.

Comments derogatory to groups, commentary reflect ting political views, have no place in this forum, and will be redacted - or posts consisting mostly of unsuitable cintent will be summarily (no notice or warning to poster) deleted.

Now, let’s return to the specific topic at hand in this thread.

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Old Aug 13, 18, 2:54 pm
  #797  
 
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Sweet! Sorry I couldn't help myself

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Old Aug 26, 18, 2:43 pm
  #798  
 
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Hi -
Quick question here - Does AA care about ambulance chasing-type of lawsuits in the EU re EC 261 issues? In other words, I have gotten nowhere with AA CS and believe that I am entitled to compensation. One of the many EU law firms with a fill in the blank type questionnaire is "ready" to take the case. But what about AA itself? I don't want to have to go to court for EC 261 comp but AA has left me with only two options, i) go away or ii) hire the ambulance chasers. Not sure what to do.

Cheers
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Old Aug 26, 18, 2:55 pm
  #799  
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Originally Posted by thegrailer View Post
Hi -
Quick question here - Does AA care about ambulance chasing-type of lawsuits in the EU re EC 261 issues? In other words, I have gotten nowhere with AA CS and believe that I am entitled to compensation. One of the many EU law firms with a fill in the blank type questionnaire is "ready" to take the case. But what about AA itself? I don't want to have to go to court for EC 261 comp but AA has left me with only two options, i) go away or ii) hire the ambulance chasers. Not sure what to do.

Cheers
I don't think they really "fear" anyone. Sometimes escalating the issue gets you a more seasoned eye on the situation and they then realize they made a mistake.
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Old Aug 26, 18, 3:01 pm
  #800  
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Originally Posted by thegrailer View Post
Hi -
Quick question here - Does AA care about ambulance chasing-type of lawsuits in the EU re EC 261 issues? In other words, I have gotten nowhere with AA CS and believe that I am entitled to compensation. One of the many EU law firms with a fill in the blank type questionnaire is "ready" to take the case. But what about AA itself? I don't want to have to go to court for EC 261 comp but AA has left me with only two options, i) go away or ii) hire the ambulance chasers. Not sure what to do.

Cheers
Could you outline the issue that made you think you are entitled to compensation under EU261? A view from people on here may help you before engaging one of the no win companies.
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Old Aug 26, 18, 3:47 pm
  #801  
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Originally Posted by thegrailer View Post
Hi -
Quick question here - Does AA care about ambulance chasing-type of lawsuits in the EU re EC 261 issues? In other words, I have gotten nowhere with AA CS and believe that I am entitled to compensation. One of the many EU law firms with a fill in the blank type questionnaire is "ready" to take the case. But what about AA itself? I don't want to have to go to court for EC 261 comp but AA has left me with only two options, i) go away or ii) hire the ambulance chasers. Not sure what to do.

Cheers
I don't know what you mean by ambulance chasers here

If you have a valid claim but AA is refusing to pay, you have the option of taking AA to court yourself ; if based in the UK, that is very straightforward and easy. Alternatively , there are various companies that will handle the matter for a faily high percentage of the amount received

If your choices are limited to walking away or taking action , would you prefer to take action yourself, get someone else to do it for a fee or forego the compensation

What is the detail of the incident and why does AA claim that there is no entitlement?
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Old Aug 26, 18, 10:37 pm
  #802  
 
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Originally Posted by UKtravelbear View Post
Could you outline the issue that made you think you are entitled to compensation under EU261? A view from people on here may help you before engaging one of the no win companies.

I filed claim (basically email to address listed in wiki) about 4 weeks ago. Have received no response.
While trying to get Reason for Delay, had received many different answers via email.
But one of them did send me a letter on AA stationary confirming that 12 hours delay was due to equipment and maintenance reason.

I had posted specific of our case up-thread a month ago but here is the essence:

Outbound from GLA to PHL was delayed 12 hours because incoming plane was 13 hours late. That was because no crew was available to operate GLA to PHL flight. That happened because weather related delays timed out crew in PHL and contingency crew were used up for more important European cities GLA departure out of PHL had to wait until next day for new crew.

From everything I have researched and based on advice here, it seems EC 261 was applicable.
At the 3 week mark, sent a follow up query on status which has remained unanswered.

any advice on next step?

(Ticket issued in US directly by AA - award ticket)
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Old Aug 26, 18, 10:51 pm
  #803  
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The details of the delay look like one where compensation should be due - regardless of that, you are entitled to reimbusement of the GBP110 incurred due to the delay

At this stage I would either start a claim against the airline or pass it to one of the companies that will recover any owed EC261 compensation for a percentage fee

Neother where ticket was issued nor that it iwas an award ticket have any impact on EC261 delay/cancellation compensation
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Old Sep 12, 18, 7:00 am
  #804  
 
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This would be my first EC261 claim so I want to be sure I’m eligible.

My wife, adult daughter and I were scheduled to fly AA Monday from Venice to Philadelphia (and connecting to DFW) on award tickets. The flight was cancelled after sitting on the runway for three hours because of mechanical issues, and we were rebooked the next day on an AA-BA codeshare connecting through LHR.

AA provided transportation to a hotel and rooms for the night, but there were about 50 people that needed transportation back to LHR the following morning and the hotel only had an 8 person shuttle. The hotel clerk told people to get taxis and submit for reimbursement to AA.

According to what I’ve read, I should claim €1800 plus the taxi fare, correct?
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Old Sep 12, 18, 2:36 pm
  #805  
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Originally Posted by avatexrs View Post
This would be my first EC261 claim so I want to be sure I’m eligible.

My wife, adult daughter and I were scheduled to fly AA Monday from Venice to Philadelphia (and connecting to DFW) on award tickets. The flight was cancelled after sitting on the runway for three hours because of mechanical issues, and we were rebooked the next day on an AA-BA codeshare connecting through LHR.

AA provided transportation to a hotel and rooms for the night, but there were about 50 people that needed transportation back to LHR the following morning and the hotel only had an 8 person shuttle. The hotel clerk told people to get taxis and submit for reimbursement to AA.

According to what I’ve read, I should claim €1800 plus the taxi fare, correct?
Since the delay was > 4 hours, each person should submit a claim for EUR600

You are entitled to reimbursement of taxi plus meals and incisdentals too
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Old Sep 21, 18, 3:11 pm
  #806  
 
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Originally Posted by ngls View Post
Hello,

I was flying from ATH to SMF (AA759, AA594, AA1932) on May 27th. A few hours before the flight, I was notified that I would not make my connections and I could either overnight in PHL or stay and extra day in Athens and take next day's flight to PHL (AA759) which I did.
When I got to the airport on May 28th, there was a slight delay (30 min or so) originally due to late incoming aircraft. At check in I was told that I would make it to my connection since we should be landing in PHL on time. While on board and ready to go, we were notified by the crew that there was a technical issue that needed to be fixed. We ended up leaving 2:45 late (at 14:30) which caused me to miss (again) my connection flight due to late arrival in PHL.
My question is: Am I owed the EC261/2004 compensation once (€600) or twice (2x€600=€1200)? I have contacted AA for the first flight/delay but haven't heard back from them yet.

Thanks!
Resurrecting this topic as AA sent me a clear response regarding this issue after a lot of back and forth. In all their correspondence they were not mentioning the date that the reimbursement was for (single reimbursement of €600). They just mentioned that the trip was in late May. Here is their reply:

'We understand the frustration experienced when flight 759 on May 27, 2018 and regret you were further inconvenienced when re-accommodated flight 759 from Athens to Philadelphia on May 28, 2018 was also delayed. However, it is our view a single claim will apply per journey, regardless of the number of times a ticket is reissued or the number of cancelations or delays experienced.'

What do you guys think I should do? Should I pursue it further? Any info on whether the EU rules consider this as 2 delayed trips?

Thanks in advance,
ngls

Last edited by ngls; Sep 21, 18 at 3:17 pm Reason: Missing quote
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Old Sep 21, 18, 3:29 pm
  #807  
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Originally Posted by ngls View Post
Resurrecting this topic as AA sent me a clear response regarding this issue after a lot of back and forth. In all their correspondence they were not mentioning the date that the reimbursement was for (single reimbursement of €600). They just mentioned that the trip was in late May. Here is their reply:

'We understand the frustration experienced when flight 759 on May 27, 2018 and regret you were further inconvenienced when re-accommodated flight 759 from Athens to Philadelphia on May 28, 2018 was also delayed. However, it is our view a single claim will apply per journey, regardless of the number of times a ticket is reissued or the number of cancelations or delays experienced.'

What do you guys think I should do? Should I pursue it further? Any info on whether the EU rules consider this as 2 delayed trips?

Thanks in advance,
ngls
Whilst I can see your point, This really is one long delay. On balance I would agree with AA's view.
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Old Sep 21, 18, 3:36 pm
  #808  
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I think that it could reasonably be argued in court that it is 2 issues, but cannot see the airline paying out without going there

If it was 2 different airlines, it would be a much easier claim I suspect ( e.g. AA was cancelled and then rebooked onto BA and then BA was delayed - would claim once from AA and once from BA )
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Old Sep 21, 18, 3:48 pm
  #809  
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As there is only one ticket, there is only one EC 261/2004 payment due. AA's interpretation is in line standard practice and it will take not only a court order, but likely an appeal to change that. There is no precedential case remotely suggesting that a second payment is due.

I would take the EUR 600 and be done with it.
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Old Sep 21, 18, 6:03 pm
  #810  
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Originally Posted by Often1 View Post
As there is only one ticket, there is only one EC 261/2004 payment due. AA's interpretation is in line standard practice and it will take not only a court order, but likely an appeal to change that. There is no precedential case remotely suggesting that a second payment is due.

I would take the EUR 600 and be done with it.
EC261 does not work on a per ticket basis

It would be pretty cler cut that 2 x compensation would be claimed if it was 2 carriers

Event 1 : flight disruption - airline A rebooked passenger onto another flight which would not arrive within 4 hours of scheduled time - passenger due EUR600 plus rebooked and reticketed onto the new flight

That ends responsiblity of airline A for event 1

Event 2 : flight disruption - airline B delays passenger , misses connection, arrives > 4 hours behind schedule - airline B owes EUR 600

It is only that airline A and airline B is the same airline that is causing the issue - given that it would be quite clear that 2 x compensation amounts woul be due if they were 2 different airlines, I don't see how it being 1 airline should make a difference. I also have not seen anything that suggests that a court has ever ruled that this would only count for 1 payment

If in a position to easily lodge a claim with MCOL and put case forward, I would do so and see what a county court judge rules - if not , then just take the EUR600 and leave it - I don't think that further letter writing will make a difference

Last edited by Dave Noble; Sep 21, 18 at 6:13 pm
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