Jan 29, 2015, 7:08 pm
Last edit by: Prospero
Note update - 2016 June 10
EU clarification on EC261/2004
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...16)3502_en.pdf
Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishes common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91.
AA email address for EC 261 claims: [email protected]
Link to article on Wikipedia: "The Flight Delay Compensation Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 is a regulation establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding, flight cancellations, or long delays of flights. It repealed Regulation (EEC) No 295/91, and went into effect on 18 February 2005. It sets out the entitlements of air passengers when a flight that they intend to travel on is delayed or cancelled, or when they are denied boarding to such a flight due to overbooking, or when the airline is unable to accommodate them in the class they had booked." It applies to Member States and includes French overseas territories.
NOTE: Heretofore, the ruling only applied to flights leaving Europe on all airlines, or flights from anywhere to Europe, on European airlines. Most recently (July 2019), a new European Court of Justice ruling commands that even flights which connect to non-EU airlines, but were booked as one ticket from the EU must be compensated. (link to article on godsavethepoints.com)
Link to EC 261/2004 text in several languages.
Link to language (English) Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF) of EC 261/2004
Link to description by Air Passenger Rights a "multilingual consumer website explaining the rights of air passengers in the European Union."
Link to contact details of EC 261/2004 enforcement bodies
Link to English language EC 261/2004 compliaint form PDF
Email for EC claims at AA.com: [email protected] (verified Aug 2016, can take 4 weeks for a reply)
Link to BAEC Forum lengthy EC261/2004 thread.
Link to thisismoney.co.uk article explaining EC261/2004.
Link to travel sort.com blog on recovering EC261/2004 compensation from American Airlines.
Previous posts from this thread have been archived to ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)
“Despite all this, expect airlines to give you a hard time with your claim. File a claim on your own, but if you find yourself stonewalled or denied unfairly, enlisting a firm like AirHelp or Bott & Co can be huge, since they fight the case for you, in exchange for a 25% cut of the recovered cash. A 75% chunk of something is better than 100% of nothing.” (godsavethepoints.com)
Signed in members with 90 days / 90 posts can edit this Wikipost; wiki contents may be printed by using the
(lower right wiki corner)
EU clarification on EC261/2004
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...16)3502_en.pdf
Regulation (EC) No 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 11 February 2004 establishes common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights, and repealing Regulation (EEC) No 295/91.
AA email address for EC 261 claims: [email protected]
Code:
The regulation applies to any passenger: - departing from an airport located in the territory of a Member State to which the Treaty applies;The protection accorded to passengers departing from or to an airport located in a Member State should be extended to those leaving an airport located in a third country for one situated in a Member State, when a Community carrier operates the flight and where a community carrier is defined as any carrier licensed to operate within that community.
Code:
- departing from an EU member state, or travelling to an EU member state - on an airline based in an EU member state if that person has: - a confirmed reservation on the flight, and - arrived in time for check-in as indicated on the ticket or communication from the airline airline, or, if no time is so indicated, no less than 45 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time of the flight or - have been transferred from the flight for which he/she held a reservation to some other flight unless - the passenger is travelling on a free or discounted ticket not available to the general public, other than a ticket obtained from a frequent flyer programme. It does not apply to helicopter flights, to any flight not operated by a fixed-wing aircraft, nor to flights from Gibraltar Airport.[1] (wikipedia)
NOTE: Heretofore, the ruling only applied to flights leaving Europe on all airlines, or flights from anywhere to Europe, on European airlines. Most recently (July 2019), a new European Court of Justice ruling commands that even flights which connect to non-EU airlines, but were booked as one ticket from the EU must be compensated. (link to article on godsavethepoints.com)
Link to EC 261/2004 text in several languages.
Link to language (English) Adobe Portable Document Format (PDF) of EC 261/2004
Link to description by Air Passenger Rights a "multilingual consumer website explaining the rights of air passengers in the European Union."
Link to contact details of EC 261/2004 enforcement bodies
Link to English language EC 261/2004 compliaint form PDF
Email for EC claims at AA.com: [email protected] (verified Aug 2016, can take 4 weeks for a reply)
Link to BAEC Forum lengthy EC261/2004 thread.
Link to thisismoney.co.uk article explaining EC261/2004.
Link to travel sort.com blog on recovering EC261/2004 compensation from American Airlines.
Previous posts from this thread have been archived to ARCHIVE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints, compensation and AA (master thread)
“Despite all this, expect airlines to give you a hard time with your claim. File a claim on your own, but if you find yourself stonewalled or denied unfairly, enlisting a firm like AirHelp or Bott & Co can be huge, since they fight the case for you, in exchange for a 25% cut of the recovered cash. A 75% chunk of something is better than 100% of nothing.” (godsavethepoints.com)
Signed in members with 90 days / 90 posts can edit this Wikipost; wiki contents may be printed by using the
(lower right wiki corner)
GUIDE: EC261 / EC 261/2004 “EU” complaints, compensation and AA
May 15, 2023, 12:15 am
#31
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,195
It’s based on the fare on the downgraded sector excluding any proper government taxes and airport fees and those definitely aren’t a straight 50-50 split.
Ex UX there is ~£200 of APD that doesn’t apply to an ex US flight for example. And even excluding all those it still likely won’t be a 50-50 split because it’s possible the base fare for each flight could be asymmetric as well.
May 15, 2023, 12:18 am
#32
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 158
it’s not as simple as saying 75% of 50%
It’s based on the fare on the downgraded sector excluding any proper government taxes and airport fees and those definitely aren’t a straight 50-50 split.
Ex UX there is ~£200 of APD that doesn’t apply to an ex US flight for example. And even excluding all those it still likely won’t be a 50-50 split because it’s possible the base fare for each flight could be asymmetric as well.
It’s based on the fare on the downgraded sector excluding any proper government taxes and airport fees and those definitely aren’t a straight 50-50 split.
Ex UX there is ~£200 of APD that doesn’t apply to an ex US flight for example. And even excluding all those it still likely won’t be a 50-50 split because it’s possible the base fare for each flight could be asymmetric as well.
Yes ticketed into first.
I'll get the breakdown for the segment involved and go from there once I've flown, thx
May 15, 2023, 12:21 am
#33
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Location: Brighton. UK
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Ticketed ATH/LHR/OMA/ORD AA award - booked 4/18
BA cancelled 10:15 ATH-LHR put us on the 15:30 flight which of course now requires an overnight; we booked t4 Hilton for £159 - no food/ travel expense (dinner in the lounge/AC T3 next morning)
BA created a case number, I mailed a hotel copy/BA record locator to Washington DC
BA sent a second email saying they are working on it.
Since we got home at 18:30 on 4/19 instead of 21:30 on 4/18 I asked if EU 261 ($600?) was appropriate - no word yet
Anything else I should do?
BA cancelled 10:15 ATH-LHR put us on the 15:30 flight which of course now requires an overnight; we booked t4 Hilton for £159 - no food/ travel expense (dinner in the lounge/AC T3 next morning)
BA created a case number, I mailed a hotel copy/BA record locator to Washington DC
BA sent a second email saying they are working on it.
Since we got home at 18:30 on 4/19 instead of 21:30 on 4/18 I asked if EU 261 ($600?) was appropriate - no word yet
Anything else I should do?
That won’t affect the reimbursement of the hotel cost.
May 15, 2023, 3:51 am
#34
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,846
ok, a bit of a weird one.
I booked a business round trip ticket a few weeks ago and did online check in today and paid £398 to upgrade to 1st and got a confirmed seat.
An hour ago AA called me to say there is an equipment change and I'm being refunded my £398 and given a $600 trip credit valid for one year. I obviously wasn't expecting the call and so was a bit cagey on my response as I wasn't sure what rights I'd be giving up here. I asked if this was a UK261 scenario and the rep said yes. At that point we left it there and I'm now back in J on the same out bound flight from LHR tomorrow.
Based on what I can tell this is 75% of the outbound cost (so given it's a £4000 flight, that's likely 75% of 2k), or would there be some weird clause due to it being a last minute upgrade?
I booked a business round trip ticket a few weeks ago and did online check in today and paid £398 to upgrade to 1st and got a confirmed seat.
An hour ago AA called me to say there is an equipment change and I'm being refunded my £398 and given a $600 trip credit valid for one year. I obviously wasn't expecting the call and so was a bit cagey on my response as I wasn't sure what rights I'd be giving up here. I asked if this was a UK261 scenario and the rep said yes. At that point we left it there and I'm now back in J on the same out bound flight from LHR tomorrow.
Based on what I can tell this is 75% of the outbound cost (so given it's a £4000 flight, that's likely 75% of 2k), or would there be some weird clause due to it being a last minute upgrade?
Paying § 389 for an upgrade and expecting to get 75% of £2k as compensation for AA canceling the upgrade soon after, sounds like something which is far from going to fly...
May 15, 2023, 3:58 am
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
Programs: BA Silver, EI Silver, HH Gold, BW Gold, ABP, Seigneur des Horaires des Mucci
Posts: 14,214
But Sir, wasn't the USD 600 voucher supposed to cover the inconvenience/the compensation for the downgrade? If you claim for downgrade, the voucher will be cancelled?
Paying § 389 for an upgrade and expecting to get 75% of £2k as compensation for AA canceling the upgrade soon after, sounds like something which is far from going to fly...
Paying § 389 for an upgrade and expecting to get 75% of £2k as compensation for AA canceling the upgrade soon after, sounds like something which is far from going to fly...
The airline choosing to offer $600 in funny money does not change this obligation.
*and the corresponding UK law
May 15, 2023, 4:08 am
#36
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 158
Regardless of your personal feeling about whether something is "far from going to fly", EU law* is clear that if a passenger is downgraded on a flight of over 3,500km leaving the EU, the airline must refund them 75% of the fare paid for that sector. Not the upgrade amount. The law was put in place, as explained in its preamble, to ensure a strong level of protection for air travellers.
The airline choosing to offer $600 in funny money does not change this obligation.
*and the corresponding UK law
The airline choosing to offer $600 in funny money does not change this obligation.
*and the corresponding UK law
What if I'd upgraded at booking?
What if the upgrade wasn't 398 but 2398?
WIn some, lose some, we all have to play by the rules...
Incidentally they called me today to try to bump me down to economy (which I think I've dodged)...
May 15, 2023, 4:18 am
#37
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,846
Noted, but let us see if AA agrees to pay £1,500 (or slightly less) as downgrade compensation in this situation (in add. to $600 already paid as voucher). I remain very sceptic...
Sound more like if the OP could be entitled to 75% of the fare actually paid for this segment + 75% of £398 rather than a random/fantom F fare stated by the OP.
Sound more like if the OP could be entitled to 75% of the fare actually paid for this segment + 75% of £398 rather than a random/fantom F fare stated by the OP.
May 15, 2023, 4:28 am
#38
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: From ORK, live LCY
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Yes, that would be the amount they should be eligible to claim.
May 15, 2023, 5:10 am
#39
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,195
But Sir, wasn't the USD 600 voucher supposed to cover the inconvenience/the compensation for the downgrade? If you claim for downgrade, the voucher will be cancelled?
Paying § 389 for an upgrade and expecting to get 75% of £2k as compensation for AA canceling the upgrade soon after, sounds like something which is far from going to fly...
Paying § 389 for an upgrade and expecting to get 75% of £2k as compensation for AA canceling the upgrade soon after, sounds like something which is far from going to fly...
The voucher might well be a good will gesture to cover inconvenience but it does not absolve AA of paying the correct amout of the legally required reimbursement.
The moment the upgrade was ticketted was the moment the full force of the regulation kicked in and requires AA to cough up the 75% and not just refunding the upgrade amount.
May 15, 2023, 6:14 am
#40
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Omaha
Programs: AA Life Plat 4mm, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 1,459
BA did add a 2 pm Finn Air flight for the Viking Cruise people but it wouldn’t have helped avoid a stay at LHR.
When we landed at LHR I though about
stopping by the BA customer service desk but decided to wait until we got home. Next day AA let us fly to the US on any flight we wanted - they were were all half full
BA did say in their email if the notice was 14 days before no claim but what different would that have made, we didn’t arrive in Athens until 4/18?
Original ticket was
BA 623. 10:25 am
AA 91. 2:25 pm
AA 3026. 8:15 pm
May 15, 2023, 2:24 pm
#43
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
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The 14 days is in time period listed in the regulation. That's all the logic needed. Sure the EU Council / Commission / Parliament could have decided upon a different one but any other period would have advantages and disadvantages.
How mucb notice were you actually given 'well before' isn't a helpful term!
How mucb notice were you actually given 'well before' isn't a helpful term!
May 16, 2023, 2:35 am
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denmark
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 11,846
You are still entitled to reimbursement of the hotel expenses (there is no 14 day rule there). Most likely BA will refund this as you already submitted for reimbursement; you just have to be a bit patient.
May 16, 2023, 3:29 am
#45
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: BLR
Programs: AA - EXP, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, UK - Gold
Posts: 1,224
Data point for others:
Last year, I had a LHR-BLR overnight delay. They were to offer vouchers for hotel but would have to wait 3hrs and we were told if anyone wants to leave and book own rooms, reimbursement would be done. I took it up and got a hotel nearby and submitted claim of hotel, food, both way taxis to airport. Also submitted EU261 claim. All submissions done online on BA portal.
The hotel+food+taxi claim arrived in bank in 10 days and the EU261 claim arrived in 21days without any follow-up at all.
Last year, I had a LHR-BLR overnight delay. They were to offer vouchers for hotel but would have to wait 3hrs and we were told if anyone wants to leave and book own rooms, reimbursement would be done. I took it up and got a hotel nearby and submitted claim of hotel, food, both way taxis to airport. Also submitted EU261 claim. All submissions done online on BA portal.
The hotel+food+taxi claim arrived in bank in 10 days and the EU261 claim arrived in 21days without any follow-up at all.