Oct 14, 2014, 10:32 am
Last edit by: Prospero
Help with British Airways and Iberia Carrier Imposed Surcharges
Using AAdvantage miles for awards using British Airways generally* incurs very high carrier imposed surcharges / fees (BA charges their own BAEC flyers these for Avios redemptions as well). AA awards on IB incur considerably lower fees (~$50 one way transatlantic is quoted by one member, the link to travelisfree.com below gives a BA flight with $458 YQ, IB $96). One FTer claims $700 BA YQ fees for SAN-PRG return, which is not unusual). You are likely to find lots of availability on BA using the aa.com award booking facility.
Intra-European awards using BA have significantly lower carrier imposed charges; some members may find using AA or other partner transatlantic connecting to BA may be acceptable.
NOTE: Paying YQ may trigger a host of other taxes and fees otherwise not charged on awards that do not include carrier imposed surcharges such as YQ. Flights within the Americas are YQ exempt.
As this is still flying on an award, these carrier imposed surcharges do not qualify for EQM or EQD earning.
Be sure to read the oneworld and Other Airline (Partner) Awards info, rules 2014 on thread wiki for information on searching for and finding alternative flights or those not shown on aa.com, which airlines' websites can find those, etc.
Read more about BA Carrier Imposed Surcharges on AA awards here (rrgg supplied most of these below:
Fuel Surcharge for AA award redemptions on BA are up - again.
Partner airline awards now bookable on AA.com (AB, AS, AY, BA, HA, HG, QF, RJ, US)
Does AA push most of its European Awards to BA to collect fuel surcharges?
Charts from TravelIsFree for the three alliances and how you will pay (or avoid) YQ: http://travelisfree.com/2014/04/15/m...surcharges-yq/
HELP DESK: MileSAAver / SAAver award questions, assistance
AA oneworld and Other Airline ("All Partner") Award information, rules (2015 on)
Originating a flight in the UK incurs an Air Passenger Duty, reduced for seats with less than 40" seat pitch (except those originating from originating in BFS / Northern Ireland, Scottish Highlands (INV) or Islands, and connections less than 24 hours do not incur UK Air Passenger Duty, though they do incur airport Passenger Service Charges). Separate topic, dealt with:
UK APD / Air Passenger Duty charged for UK departures (Master Thread); defines what the APD is in the wikipost.
Avoiding crazy UK "APD" taxes when transferring through LHR on separate tickets
Archived posts May 2012 - 2016 may be read here.
Using AAdvantage miles for awards using British Airways generally* incurs very high carrier imposed surcharges / fees (BA charges their own BAEC flyers these for Avios redemptions as well). AA awards on IB incur considerably lower fees (~$50 one way transatlantic is quoted by one member, the link to travelisfree.com below gives a BA flight with $458 YQ, IB $96). One FTer claims $700 BA YQ fees for SAN-PRG return, which is not unusual). You are likely to find lots of availability on BA using the aa.com award booking facility.
Intra-European awards using BA have significantly lower carrier imposed charges; some members may find using AA or other partner transatlantic connecting to BA may be acceptable.
NOTE: Paying YQ may trigger a host of other taxes and fees otherwise not charged on awards that do not include carrier imposed surcharges such as YQ. Flights within the Americas are YQ exempt.
As this is still flying on an award, these carrier imposed surcharges do not qualify for EQM or EQD earning.
Be sure to read the oneworld and Other Airline (Partner) Awards info, rules 2014 on thread wiki for information on searching for and finding alternative flights or those not shown on aa.com, which airlines' websites can find those, etc.
Read more about BA Carrier Imposed Surcharges on AA awards here (rrgg supplied most of these below:
Fuel Surcharge for AA award redemptions on BA are up - again.
Partner airline awards now bookable on AA.com (AB, AS, AY, BA, HA, HG, QF, RJ, US)
Does AA push most of its European Awards to BA to collect fuel surcharges?
Charts from TravelIsFree for the three alliances and how you will pay (or avoid) YQ: http://travelisfree.com/2014/04/15/m...surcharges-yq/
HELP DESK: MileSAAver / SAAver award questions, assistance
AA oneworld and Other Airline ("All Partner") Award information, rules (2015 on)
Originating a flight in the UK incurs an Air Passenger Duty, reduced for seats with less than 40" seat pitch (except those originating from originating in BFS / Northern Ireland, Scottish Highlands (INV) or Islands, and connections less than 24 hours do not incur UK Air Passenger Duty, though they do incur airport Passenger Service Charges). Separate topic, dealt with:
UK APD / Air Passenger Duty charged for UK departures (Master Thread); defines what the APD is in the wikipost.
Avoiding crazy UK "APD" taxes when transferring through LHR on separate tickets
Archived posts May 2012 - 2016 may be read here.
Carrier Imposed Surcharge / YQ: AA award on BA / British (& IB) & avoiding it
Jul 10, 2019, 5:00 am
#226
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,437
Tried SAN and LAX to AMS, MUC, FRA, FCO, ZRH, CDG, MAD, LIS, MXP, TXL, BUD, and each option put me on a BA flight LAX-LHR or DFW-LHR or PHL-LHR. Unfortunately, I only have 1 possible date I can fly Nov 9 and it could be due to winter AA does not have flights to some of those cities.
CHecking other AA cities like ORD, DFW, LAX, CLT, JFK to European cities every flight over the Atlantic was on BA. I guess AA really does not want you to redeem points for a ticket. Does the surcharge go to AA or BA or is it split.
CHecking other AA cities like ORD, DFW, LAX, CLT, JFK to European cities every flight over the Atlantic was on BA. I guess AA really does not want you to redeem points for a ticket. Does the surcharge go to AA or BA or is it split.
And having zero flexibility on dates certainly isn't helping, and that your one an only date is a Saturday is a double whammy in this regard.
That said, November is still a long way off. At 4 months out, you're really looking in a dead zone for AA award space...you missed any space released really early on, but are too soon to see any space that may get released as the flight gets closer. And November is the complete off season to Europe (2nd only to Jan/Feb probably).
Bottom line, I wouldn't be in any hurry to book a BA flight now, for a flight in November these will always be there. Just keep an eye on the AA flights, it's highly likely that better options will open up between now and then.
Jul 10, 2019, 5:15 am
#227
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 7,895
Tried SAN and LAX to AMS, MUC, FRA, FCO, ZRH, CDG, MAD, LIS, MXP, TXL, BUD, and each option put me on a BA flight LAX-LHR or DFW-LHR or PHL-LHR. Unfortunately, I only have 1 possible date I can fly Nov 9 and it could be due to winter AA does not have flights to some of those cities.
CHecking other AA cities like ORD, DFW, LAX, CLT, JFK to European cities every flight over the Atlantic was on BA. I guess AA really does not want you to redeem points for a ticket. Does the surcharge go to AA or BA or is it split.
CHecking other AA cities like ORD, DFW, LAX, CLT, JFK to European cities every flight over the Atlantic was on BA. I guess AA really does not want you to redeem points for a ticket. Does the surcharge go to AA or BA or is it split.
Jul 10, 2019, 10:20 am
#228
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: AA
Posts: 22
Tried SAN and LAX to AMS, MUC, FRA, FCO, ZRH, CDG, MAD, LIS, MXP, TXL, BUD, and each option put me on a BA flight LAX-LHR or DFW-LHR or PHL-LHR. Unfortunately, I only have 1 possible date I can fly Nov 9 and it could be due to winter AA does not have flights to some of those cities.
CHecking other AA cities like ORD, DFW, LAX, CLT, JFK to European cities every flight over the Atlantic was on BA. I guess AA really does not want you to redeem points for a ticket. Does the surcharge go to AA or BA or is it split.
CHecking other AA cities like ORD, DFW, LAX, CLT, JFK to European cities every flight over the Atlantic was on BA. I guess AA really does not want you to redeem points for a ticket. Does the surcharge go to AA or BA or is it split.
Jul 10, 2019, 10:59 am
#229
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Tried SAN and LAX to AMS, MUC, FRA, FCO, ZRH, CDG, MAD, LIS, MXP, TXL, BUD, and each option put me on a BA flight LAX-LHR or DFW-LHR or PHL-LHR. Unfortunately, I only have 1 possible date I can fly Nov 9 and it could be due to winter AA does not have flights to some of those cities.
CHecking other AA cities like ORD, DFW, LAX, CLT, JFK to European cities every flight over the Atlantic was on BA. I guess AA really does not want you to redeem points for a ticket. Does the surcharge go to AA or BA or is it split.
CHecking other AA cities like ORD, DFW, LAX, CLT, JFK to European cities every flight over the Atlantic was on BA. I guess AA really does not want you to redeem points for a ticket. Does the surcharge go to AA or BA or is it split.
Jul 10, 2019, 11:20 am
#231
Join Date: Jan 2012
Programs: AY+ Plat, Marriott Plat, Hyatt Discoverist
Posts: 2,846
Jul 10, 2019, 7:02 pm
#233
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: The FT AA forum, until it no longer wants me.
Programs: CK or bust
Posts: 1,913
If you call AA, ask for the Amadeus reference number or BA booking number and use it to manage your BA segments including F seat assignments on BA.com
Aug 12, 2019, 1:44 pm
#235
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 372
Saving $ on BA fees when booking with AA miles
I was working on RT PHL-LHR. Sample BA $$ on top of miles for two pax:
so I learned a bunch here - pardon me if you regulars already know this:
1. If you want to fly to LHR, if you take AA to somewhere else reasonably close and then BA just into LHR there are virtually no taxes/fees;
2. Flying out of LHR if you want to book RT, look for AA flight rather than BA, you'll save substantially (guessing about $1500 vs BA return)
3. when flying an itinerary that includes BA, before booking price it out as two separate one-way trips AND as a round trip, and see if there is any savings on one vs the other. You'd think the RT is cheaper for fees, I'm amazed that it wasn't!
BA has some weird computer stuff going on right now - I was trying first to book with money, using the AARP discount, and their website wasn't offering it for my outbound, and for the inbound, they were ADDING the discount to the posted fares instead of subtracting it!! Absolutely no question, and verified by someone else on the BA thread. I wonder if that's why I was seeing such crazy fees? Sure, the $1100 for two first class one way tickets on top of the 85k x 2 miles is steep - but it's about $500 more than AA out of LHR. Cheapest would no doubt have been to find a flight back via TXL but I didn't see any that didn't involve an overnight.
- Business RT, non-stop both ways, all BA: $3300;
- Business RT, AA PHL-TXL BA TXL-LHR; return BA first nonstop LHR-PHL $2300
- Business RT, AA PHL-TXL BA TXL-LHR; return AA LHR-PHL $650
- Turns out outbound is about $54 in fees, the return is almost $600
so I learned a bunch here - pardon me if you regulars already know this:
1. If you want to fly to LHR, if you take AA to somewhere else reasonably close and then BA just into LHR there are virtually no taxes/fees;
2. Flying out of LHR if you want to book RT, look for AA flight rather than BA, you'll save substantially (guessing about $1500 vs BA return)
3. when flying an itinerary that includes BA, before booking price it out as two separate one-way trips AND as a round trip, and see if there is any savings on one vs the other. You'd think the RT is cheaper for fees, I'm amazed that it wasn't!
BA has some weird computer stuff going on right now - I was trying first to book with money, using the AARP discount, and their website wasn't offering it for my outbound, and for the inbound, they were ADDING the discount to the posted fares instead of subtracting it!! Absolutely no question, and verified by someone else on the BA thread. I wonder if that's why I was seeing such crazy fees? Sure, the $1100 for two first class one way tickets on top of the 85k x 2 miles is steep - but it's about $500 more than AA out of LHR. Cheapest would no doubt have been to find a flight back via TXL but I didn't see any that didn't involve an overnight.
Aug 12, 2019, 1:50 pm
#236
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: RDU <|> MMX
Programs: AA EXP 2MM, SK EBS
Posts: 12,437
The BA fuel surcharges (or whatever BS they're technically called) are calculated differently depending on the country of origin. Originating in the US has some of the highest, while originating in Europe and other parts of the world can be much lower.
So for say a PHL-LHR-PHL roundtrip on one PNR, you pay the US fuel surcharge rate for both segments.
But for PHL-LHR on one PNR and LHR-PHL on a separate PNR, you would pay the higher US fuel surcharge on only the PHL-LHR segment and the lower UK surcharge now on the LHR-PHL segment, hence the money savings that you found.
So for say a PHL-LHR-PHL roundtrip on one PNR, you pay the US fuel surcharge rate for both segments.
But for PHL-LHR on one PNR and LHR-PHL on a separate PNR, you would pay the higher US fuel surcharge on only the PHL-LHR segment and the lower UK surcharge now on the LHR-PHL segment, hence the money savings that you found.
Aug 12, 2019, 1:58 pm
#237
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 372
Wow, and here I thought I might have made a discovery!! Thanks for the explanation, that's going to be very very helpful to me going forward. I always assumed that BA fees were arbitrary, never considered origination source. I know-"search the forums for information, someone may have already discovered it or it may be in a FAQ". BA surcharges are insane! Glad I could reduce them to some extent anyway, and I really DID want to experience the Concorde Room and BA first.....
Aug 12, 2019, 2:02 pm
#238
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Brighton. UK
Programs: BA Gold / VS /IHG Diamond & Ambassador
Posts: 14,167
the BA fees / surcharges are what BA think they can get away with in whatever market they are pricing the fares from.
Whereas proper government taxes such as US Transportation tax. UK APD etc for other nations and airport fees are generally a fixed amount.
Whereas proper government taxes such as US Transportation tax. UK APD etc for other nations and airport fees are generally a fixed amount.
Aug 12, 2019, 2:57 pm
#239
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Not here; there!
Programs: AA Lifetime Gold
Posts: 29,519
Wow, and here I thought I might have made a discovery!! Thanks for the explanation, that's going to be very very helpful to me going forward. I always assumed that BA fees were arbitrary, never considered origination source. I know-"search the forums for information, someone may have already discovered it or it may be in a FAQ". BA surcharges are insane! Glad I could reduce them to some extent anyway, and I really DID want to experience the Concorde Room and BA first.....
If you have any BA Avios (or convert some Amex MR points or Chase UR points to BA Avios), a short-haul BA flight in Economy from LON to nearby European cities would cost just 4,000-4,500 Avios + 17.5 GBP, with one free checked bag allowed.
