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MileSAAver / SAAver award reduction / scarcity discussion

Old Jan 25, 2014, 2:56 pm
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Be sure to check the lengthy http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...elections.html and oneworld and Other Airline (Partner) Awards info, rules 2014 on threads, as many members have posted questions - and useful answers - there. See the wiki posts for informative summaries.

Also be aware - AA have reduced capacity and apparently chosen to make MileSAAver flights significantly less available during predicted periods of high demand and high demand flights, undoubtedly keeping seats available for those willing to pay higher fares and use the new tiered AAnytime awards.

Older posts as of 1 Jan 2015 and later may be found in thd archived thread ARCHIVE: MileSAAver / SAAver award reduction discussion post 2015 AAdvantage merger

Older posts may dating from Aug 2011 through the AAdvantage program merger January 2015 be found in the archived thread here.

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MileSAAver / SAAver award reduction / scarcity discussion

Old Apr 28, 2017, 3:28 pm
  #886  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
Originally Posted by enviroian
Well said.

Unfortunately I don't think AA reads these threads and if they do they certainly don't care.
I thought that AA had a representative who reads these threads. Maybe not.

If not, maybe I should copy this thread and send it to each Board Member at AA.

Even though AA has a right to change its program, I cannot imagine that the Board of Directors would knowingly continue to approve the negative effect the devaluation has had on AA's customer base and with AA's relationship with its sponsor banks.

Directors like prestige, not scandal.

To continue the severe devaluation lacks business logic.

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Old Apr 28, 2017, 3:39 pm
  #887  
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Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
I thought that AA had a representative who reads these threads. Maybe not.

If not, maybe I should copy this thread and send it to each Board Member at AA.

Even though AA has a right to change its program, I cannot imagine that the Board of Directors would knowingly continue to approve the negative effect the devaluation has had on AA's customer base and with AA's relationship with its sponsor banks.

Directors like prestige, not scandal.

To continue the severe devaluation lacks business logic.

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I agree it lacks total business logic. Sometimes I wonder where Parker's logic is. He is cheap as chips.

They'll only listen when they start to see falling elite numbers. I may moan and groan on here but i'm not leaving (unfortunately). 90% of my flying is for work and AA is our preferred carrier (concur) and 9 times out of 10 it's cheaper than UA and DL. It is what it is. That being said since I've come to the final realization that there are no more international saver J awards I've focused my shift to partner redemption. I can pretty much find IB space anywhere to Europe. Too bad there aren't more European partners (I don't count BA because their tax/fee penalty on "award" flights is so ridiculous it shouldn't be called an award ticket).
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 3:51 pm
  #888  
 
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Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
I thought that AA had a representative who reads these threads. Maybe not.

If not, maybe I should copy this thread and send it to each Board Member at AA.

Even though AA has a right to change its program, I cannot imagine that the Board of Directors would knowingly continue to approve the negative effect the devaluation has had on AA's customer base and with AA's relationship with its sponsor banks.

Directors like prestige, not scandal.

To continue the severe devaluation lacks business logic.
Directors are told by counsel they must act in the best interests of shareholders, which tends to translate into trying for high stock prices.

To the extent directors review the aadvantage program, they presumably are told it's part of a coherent overall business plan that's in the best interests of the company and its shareholders. While we may not like it, that's not an obviously insane stance.

Looking over the past year, AAL is up more than DAL and not nearly as much as UAL.
Originally Posted by enviroian
They'll only listen when they start to see falling elite numbers.
The bottom line is financial success, specifically return for stockholders. Elite numbers are just a part of that.
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 4:11 pm
  #889  
 
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Originally Posted by richarddd
Directors are told by counsel they must act in the best interests of shareholders, which tends to translate into trying for high stock prices.

[snip]

The bottom line is financial success, specifically return for stockholders. Elite numbers are just a part of that.
This.

As a director they have a legal fiduciary duty to act in the best interests of the shareholders. They will only change when they can attribute a falling share price to the shortcomings of the AAdvantage program.
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 4:12 pm
  #890  
 
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Originally Posted by richarddd
Directors are told by counsel they must act in the best interests of shareholders, which tends to translate into trying for high stock prices.

To the extent directors review the aadvantage program, they presumably are told it's part of a coherent overall business plan that's in the best interests of the company and its shareholders. While we may not like it, that's not an obviously insane stance.

Looking over the past year, AAL is up more than DAL and not nearly as much as UAL.

The bottom line is financial success, specifically return for stockholders. Elite numbers are just a part of that.
What goes up, can come down.

I agree, the main function of a Board of Directors is looking out for its shareholders/the company.

In that regard, if a logical, well supported and organized complaint is furnished to each board member, I believe a competent director will at least review the complaint. Each director will then ask AA management for an explanation for why a severe devaluation was made to AA's loyalty program. AA management will have to explain the negative effect it has on company goodwill and the negative effect the devaluation has caused with AA's sponsor banks.

Maybe nothing will come of sending a complaint and material to each board member. However, board members will have no choice but to focus on the problem that is brought before them.

I doubt that a complaint (as described above) would be ignored. I also doubt that any board member would dismiss the complaint without a thorough explanation from AA management concerning the devaluation.

Furthermore, each board member would be made aware of the issues that developed between AA and its two sponsor banks because of the severe blockage of the reasonable use of collected miles for redemption.

The above is an idea that I will probably pursue.

When I get back a response, if any, I will either post it here or open a new thread if something good comes out of my efforts.

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Old Apr 28, 2017, 4:29 pm
  #891  
 
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Destroying 30 years of accrued value in the AAdvantage program for a year or two bump in revenues is a pretty questionable business decision.
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 4:52 pm
  #892  
 
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Originally Posted by George Purcell
Destroying 30 years of accrued value in the AAdvantage program for a year or two bump in revenues is a pretty questionable business decision.
By the time the ill effects of the destruction of the accrued value are realized, those who made the decisions will have had their bonuses paid and may well be long gone from the company, leaving others to deal with the mess.
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 5:16 pm
  #893  
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Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
Directors like prestige, not scandal.
Some like snacks too.
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 7:09 pm
  #894  
 
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There is only one thing that matters. Corporate contracts.

Originally Posted by enviroian
I agree it lacks total business logic. Sometimes I wonder where Parker's logic is. He is cheap as chips.

They'll only listen when they start to see falling elite numbers. I may moan and groan on here but i'm not leaving (unfortunately). 90% of my flying is for work and AA is our preferred carrier (concur) and 9 times out of 10 it's cheaper than UA and DL. It is what it is. That being said since I've come to the final realization that there are no more international saver J awards I've focused my shift to partner redemption. I can pretty much find IB space anywhere to Europe. Too bad there aren't more European partners (I don't count BA because their tax/fee penalty on "award" flights is so ridiculous it shouldn't be called an award ticket).
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 9:24 pm
  #895  
 
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Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
To continue the severe devaluation lacks business logic.
Originally Posted by enviroian
I agree it lacks total business logic.
Originally Posted by HofstraJet
They will only change when they can attribute a falling share price to the shortcomings of the AAdvantage program.
Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
Furthermore, each board member would be made aware of the issues that developed between AA and its two sponsor banks because of the severe blockage of the reasonable use of collected miles for redemption.
Y'all are arguing against people who have tens of billions of confidential data records at their disposal to assess whether or not the changes have "business logic" -- and your counterargument is you don't believe you personally are getting enough free stuff. Sorry, but your complaints aren't going to make it to the executive's secretary's secretary's secretary, and rightly so.
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 10:00 pm
  #896  
 
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Originally Posted by rjw242
Y'all are arguing against people who have tens of billions of confidential data records at their disposal to assess whether or not the changes have "business logic" -- and your counterargument is you don't believe you personally are getting enough free stuff. Sorry, but your complaints aren't going to make it to the executive's secretary's secretary's secretary, and rightly so.
That may all be very true.
However, that not withstanding, I simply refuse to support a company with my money that does not care about my loyalty and gives me nothing of value in return when others (like UA) do.
SFO is not exactly an AA hub - UA is. Despite that I flew AA with connections because it meant earning usable miles (and using my LT Plat status). I also used AA branded CCs. Now I fly UA direct (despite lack of any UA status) because I earn miles that I can actually use. I switched to Chase earning UA (and others') miles. I know that my choice will mean NOTHING to AA's bottom line but it gives me a lot of satisfaction of voicing my opinion to them and feeling good about it - and that means a lot to me. Much like voting in elections - asserting my right to choose what I prefer.
My choice - others can do as they wish.

Last edited by Paulchili; Apr 28, 2017 at 10:17 pm
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 10:04 pm
  #897  
 
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Originally Posted by Paulchili
However, that not withstanding, I simply refuse to support a company with my money that does not care about my loyalty and gives me nothing of value in return when others (like UA) do.
I'm fully on board with that. It really is the single strongest way one can make this point.
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 10:26 pm
  #898  
 
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Originally Posted by enviroian
cheap as chips.
I'm going to start using that.
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Old Apr 28, 2017, 10:39 pm
  #899  
 
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Originally Posted by rjw242

Y'all are arguing against people who have tens of billions of confidential data records at their disposal to assess whether or not the changes have "business logic" -- and your counterargument is you don't believe you personally are getting enough free stuff. Sorry, but your complaints aren't going to make it to the executive's secretary's secretary's secretary, and rightly so.
Business logic does not require "tens of billions of confidential data records at their disposal to assess whether or not the changes have "business logic" as you wrote.

Severe and negative changes to AA's loyalty program have damaged and continue to damage AA's loyalty program.

AA customers, with years and decades of loyalty, are leaving AA for other airlines because of the severe devaluation of the loyalty program.

Furthermore, the devaluation has caused bank credit card customers to massively diminish use of their AA sponsored bank credit cards because, with the devaluation, too many miles are required to redeem miles for a flight ticket.

AA is currently having issues with its sponsor banks because the miles those banks purchased from AA (for millions of dollars) have lost value because of the severe devaluation by AA management of AA's loyalty program.

AA already recorded in its first quarter SEC filing, the fact that AA customers are not signing up for AA sponsored credit cards as AA convinced the bank would happen.

In view of the foregoing information, it is clear that something with AA's loyalty program is wrong or lacks logic.


"Sorry, but your complaints aren't going to make it to the executive's secretary's secretary's secretary, and rightly so."


Don't be so sure. In today technological information era, it is not necessary to send complaints to members of AA's Board of Directors via a "secretary's secretary's secretary" but nice try, anyway.

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Old Apr 28, 2017, 10:43 pm
  #900  
 
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Originally Posted by dgcpaphd
Severe and negative changes to AA's loyalty program have damaged and continue to damage AA's loyalty program.

AA customers, with years and decades of loyalty, are leaving AA for other airlines because of the severe devaluation of the loyalty program.

Furthermore, the devaluation has caused bank credit card customers to massively diminish use of their AA sponsored bank credit cards because, with the devaluation, too many miles are required to redeem miles for a flight ticket.

AA is currently having issues with its sponsor banks because the miles those banks purchased from AA (for millions of dollars) have lost value because of the severe devaluation by AA management of AA's loyalty program.

AA already recorded in its first quarter SEC filing, the fact that AA customers are not signing up for AA sponsored credit cards as AA convinced the bank would happen.

In view of the foregoing information, it is clear that something with AA's loyalty program is wrong or lacks logic.
Cute story.
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