Jul 10, 2013, 4:13 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
SIZE="4"]AA "instant upgrade" (-UP) fare
Click here for the current thread.
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These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
E.G. During irregular operations or missed connections, one may continue in that class of service if A, P, D, I etc. as applicable is available, or the passenger can take a voluntary downgrade to the lower class of service / Y on an earlier flight. Some may do this if waiting for A, P or I requires one or more overnights.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
One explanatory post (15 Apr 2015) might be:
Click here for the current thread.
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These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
Instant Upgrade tickets are booked in the Main Cabin. However, Instant upgrade ticketholders who travel in the Main Cabin due to an involuntary seat change, equipment change, routing change, flight cancellation, or missed connection as a result of a late incoming flight may request a travel voucher. The voucher value shall be equal to $0.10 per mile, or $50, whichever is greater, for each flight segment flown in the downgraded cabin. Refunds will be rounded to the nearest whole dollar amount, and can be requested at www.aa.com/refunds.
...
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
The fare rules for both tickets provide the following as the last entry:
Why does this matter? Because if I buy either of these tickets and then I decide that I want to fly an earlier or later flight, these fares will not permit me to walk up to the counter and claim a last-minute F seat if my capacity-controlled inventory is not available. For instance, if that last F seat is in F (not P or A), then I'd have to pay the fare difference in order to confirm a change to that seat.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
■ First/Business Fares may be an Instant Upgrade and therefore subject to restrictions.
Rule Application
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
ARCHIVE: AA "instant upgrade" (-UP, YUP) fare discount First (master thd)
Apr 13, 2016, 10:51 am
#481
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The only way to really tell if it's an instant upgrade or not is to look at the fare rules. It will state if it is or not.
You can also get a good idea before that by looking at the fare basis. If the fare code starts with something other than F, A, P, I, J, D, R, (i.e. Wxxxxxx or Mxxxxxx), you're likely looking at an instant upgrade fare.
The only time you have to worry about these fares being treated as coach fares is in IRROPS. And even then, you'll only have to worry if space is really tight.
As others have stated, you'll earn based on what the fare actually books into - usually P or A. I've never had these ever earn based on the economy codes.
You can also get a good idea before that by looking at the fare basis. If the fare code starts with something other than F, A, P, I, J, D, R, (i.e. Wxxxxxx or Mxxxxxx), you're likely looking at an instant upgrade fare.
The only time you have to worry about these fares being treated as coach fares is in IRROPS. And even then, you'll only have to worry if space is really tight.
As others have stated, you'll earn based on what the fare actually books into - usually P or A. I've never had these ever earn based on the economy codes.
Apr 13, 2016, 12:04 pm
#482
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I stand by my post #2. I tried to keep things simple for the OP, but alas.
Apr 13, 2016, 12:32 pm
#483
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Glasgow, UK
Programs: Seigneur des Tarifs Utils First Class Mucci with Honours :) - BA GGL / CCR
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Thanks for all your help guys, Most of the fares appear to be P fares, The problem is according to the BA Tier Points Calculator, I can get full tier points on a F and an A ticket but there is no mention of TP at all for P fares.
Any ideas?
Any help appreciated
thanks
Any ideas?
Any help appreciated
thanks
Apr 13, 2016, 12:37 pm
#484
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Signatures
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Location: London, England
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The BAEC forum will be a better place to get firm facts relating to earning Avios and tier points on the BA programme.
Apr 13, 2016, 1:38 pm
#485
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Apr 14, 2016, 10:58 pm
#486
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Having just flown a "P" priced segment, I can absolutely confirm that these fares earn 2x EQMs.
Apr 15, 2016, 12:10 am
#487
Moderator: American AAdvantage, Signatures
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Apr 15, 2016, 1:55 am
#488
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
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We've had a number of BAEC members earn TP on P fares, iirc.
Apr 15, 2016, 2:07 am
#489
Join Date: May 2005
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Posts: 7,683
A, P and F are all first class booking classes. AA has stopped selling instant upgrade fares a long time ago. As far as you, as the passenger, should be concerned, you are buying a discounted first class ticket. Even full fare F passengers may be re-booked into economy in the event of IRROPS simply because there are no seats left in the first class cabin, however, you are not required to take a seat in coach and may wait for the next available flight. All of this instant upgrades talk is very misleading - AA does not advertise them or offer them for sale. AA only sells first class.
Apr 15, 2016, 2:28 am
#490
Moderator: American AAdvantage
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A, P and F are all first class booking classes. AA has stopped selling instant upgrade fares a long time ago. As far as you, as the passenger, should be concerned, you are buying a discounted first class ticket. Even full fare F passengers may be re-booked into economy in the event of IRROPS simply because there are no seats left in the first class cabin, however, you are not required to take a seat in coach and may wait for the next available flight. All of this instant upgrades talk is very misleading - AA does not advertise them or offer them for sale. AA only sells first class.
Apr 15, 2016, 3:47 am
#491
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A, P and F are all first class booking classes. AA has stopped selling instant upgrade fares a long time ago. As far as you, as the passenger, should be concerned, you are buying a discounted first class ticket. Even full fare F passengers may be re-booked into economy in the event of IRROPS simply because there are no seats left in the first class cabin, however, you are not required to take a seat in coach and may wait for the next available flight. All of this instant upgrades talk is very misleading - AA does not advertise them or offer them for sale. AA only sells first class.
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
■ First/Business Fares may be an Instant Upgrade and therefore subject to restrictions.
Rule Application
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
Last edited by JDiver; Apr 15, 2016 at 3:55 am
Apr 15, 2016, 6:20 am
#492
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You are correct that it's all very misleading, however what AA is advertising and what you're purchasing are actually two different things. Even though you select the fare listed under "first" in practice it's still a Y base fare with an instant upgrade into F. AA (and DL and UA) are being allowed to market these fares as F when in reality that isn't what they are.
Apr 15, 2016, 11:05 am
#493
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,222
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
And of course there is still the issue of whether AA can get away with charging you, say, $200 above the underlying coach fare for a "free" upgrade, not fly you in first class (for any number of reasons), and then just keep the $200 or provide some other compensation worth less than $200 (i.e., $0.10/mile IIRC).
PS, I wonder, if such a downgrade (due to some type of IRROPS) were to occur on a return segment, you could force AA to re-issue the ticket, waiving the change fee (due to IRROPs). A reissue on a return segment is typically (as defined in the fare rules) done using historical fares (i.e., available at the time of booking). So if you were originally on a "OA21UNL3/WAUP" fare on LGA-ORD for $150 base fare that booked into P, and something happened that you couldn't fly in P, could you force them to reissue the ticket in OA21UNL3 for $21 base fare, and get your $129 refund? Hmm.
Last edited by ijgordon; Apr 15, 2016 at 11:11 am
Apr 16, 2016, 1:37 pm
#494
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
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It's understood that P seats are capacity-limited, and stuff (IRROPS) happens.
My main complaints about the -UP fares are:
1) if for whatever reason you don't get your P fare seat, AA doesn't give you the fare difference you paid, claiming that you simply chose to pay for a more expensive Y seat.
2) If you fly in Y on your Y-UP ticket, you get Y EQM credit.
Fix those things, and it's a stuff happens situation that doesn't cost the flier money or provide fewer benefit than paid for. I can squeeze my large butt into a 17" wide, 30" seat for 3 hours on an A319 to get home 5 days sooner; I just hate AA telling me that's what I paid the extra $300+ for.
My main complaints about the -UP fares are:
1) if for whatever reason you don't get your P fare seat, AA doesn't give you the fare difference you paid, claiming that you simply chose to pay for a more expensive Y seat.
2) If you fly in Y on your Y-UP ticket, you get Y EQM credit.
Fix those things, and it's a stuff happens situation that doesn't cost the flier money or provide fewer benefit than paid for. I can squeeze my large butt into a 17" wide, 30" seat for 3 hours on an A319 to get home 5 days sooner; I just hate AA telling me that's what I paid the extra $300+ for.
Apr 16, 2016, 2:13 pm
#495
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Its a convoluted and complex fare process.
These fares are almost always "advance" fares - you can rarely find them within, say, 14 days. The fares are cheaper than fully refundable Y/B fares. A flexible Y/B on DCA-LAX is about $800 while the Y-UP is $563.
You get 2x EQMs as you would with a F class fare.
Fare basis code though is WA14ZNY1 which is interesting because "W" normally is a mid-level fare bucket.
The following language appears at the bottom of the fare rules:
"THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING."
These fares are almost always "advance" fares - you can rarely find them within, say, 14 days. The fares are cheaper than fully refundable Y/B fares. A flexible Y/B on DCA-LAX is about $800 while the Y-UP is $563.
You get 2x EQMs as you would with a F class fare.
Fare basis code though is WA14ZNY1 which is interesting because "W" normally is a mid-level fare bucket.
The following language appears at the bottom of the fare rules:
"THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING."