Jul 10, 2013, 4:13 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
SIZE="4"]AA "instant upgrade" (-UP) fare
Click here for the current thread.
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These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
E.G. During irregular operations or missed connections, one may continue in that class of service if A, P, D, I etc. as applicable is available, or the passenger can take a voluntary downgrade to the lower class of service / Y on an earlier flight. Some may do this if waiting for A, P or I requires one or more overnights.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
One explanatory post (15 Apr 2015) might be:
Click here for the current thread.
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These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
Instant Upgrade tickets are booked in the Main Cabin. However, Instant upgrade ticketholders who travel in the Main Cabin due to an involuntary seat change, equipment change, routing change, flight cancellation, or missed connection as a result of a late incoming flight may request a travel voucher. The voucher value shall be equal to $0.10 per mile, or $50, whichever is greater, for each flight segment flown in the downgraded cabin. Refunds will be rounded to the nearest whole dollar amount, and can be requested at www.aa.com/refunds.
...
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
The fare rules for both tickets provide the following as the last entry:
Why does this matter? Because if I buy either of these tickets and then I decide that I want to fly an earlier or later flight, these fares will not permit me to walk up to the counter and claim a last-minute F seat if my capacity-controlled inventory is not available. For instance, if that last F seat is in F (not P or A), then I'd have to pay the fare difference in order to confirm a change to that seat.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
■ First/Business Fares may be an Instant Upgrade and therefore subject to restrictions.
Rule Application
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
ARCHIVE: AA "instant upgrade" (-UP, YUP) fare discount First (master thd)
Nov 15, 2015, 6:51 pm
#391
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SNA LAX
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 116
The OP should get more than just the refund as a gesture of Goodwill AA should either give the OP a voucher or extra miles to boot. Weight issues are beyond the customer's control and its not like weather delays. Weight and balances are determined in advance of a flight.
Could the OP have refused to sit in Y and asked American to fly him to his final destination in the original booked class? I really think its cheesy to offer a P Fare Instant Upgrade and not spell out that a downgrade may be done due to one reason or another.
AA did not plan well for using an aircraft such as the A 321 that would have these issues. I would like to know if the OP wanted to how many times has tis happened on the Hawaii flights that passengers were downgraded. I would also be contacting the DOT if I were the OP.
Please keep us posted .
Could the OP have refused to sit in Y and asked American to fly him to his final destination in the original booked class? I really think its cheesy to offer a P Fare Instant Upgrade and not spell out that a downgrade may be done due to one reason or another.
AA did not plan well for using an aircraft such as the A 321 that would have these issues. I would like to know if the OP wanted to how many times has tis happened on the Hawaii flights that passengers were downgraded. I would also be contacting the DOT if I were the OP.
Please keep us posted .
It was the last flight of the day so I had no other flight options. Interestingly, they added a mid-day flight just a few weeks before using a 767. Very rarely do they have 3 flights a day on that route. Usually early AM on a 757 and the evening one on the 321. I would have done same-day flight change but first was fully booked on the mid-day flight at that point.
Nov 15, 2015, 7:02 pm
#392
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SNA LAX
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 116
Aside from about 5 of us moved to MCE (possibly the ones that paid for P and didn't get upgrades?), the rest were throughout the cabin (mostly aisles seats). They did offer to give us credits for movies and likewise with coach food selections.
Nov 15, 2015, 8:21 pm
#393
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NY
Programs: AA, Hilton
Posts: 1,575
Update on possible downgrade/ booking class D / Vup fare
If some recall, I had 4 J seats reserved on a Sxm-jfk flight.
For the recap:
When I booked it, the a/c shown was a 767, fare code D and the fare basis was VNE3C0Z1/CRUP
Months after booking, the AC changed to a 757intl and only 1 of the 4 seats could be chosen and the rest of our party were listed in rows 5,6, which did not exist.
HUACA got me info that AA would change the A/C later and to sit tight.
I got a lot of good perspective on a now closed thread. There was some good discussion about what would happen.
Update:
the a/c Now looks like it changed to domestic MCE with 6 rows and we're now all assigned seats.
Having read the fare code basis, there is no way one could see this being an instant upgrade fare, which many felt this was. But seeing fare code "d" makes it tougher to decipher. So if we're downgraded, I will follow with the DOT as suggested.
Anyway, that's the update I said I'd provide. Still several weeks to go and I guess anything can still happen.
One new question. D fare show as RTW, discount business and y26nCP. <---what exactly is that
A at code? Google gives no info
For the recap:
When I booked it, the a/c shown was a 767, fare code D and the fare basis was VNE3C0Z1/CRUP
Months after booking, the AC changed to a 757intl and only 1 of the 4 seats could be chosen and the rest of our party were listed in rows 5,6, which did not exist.
HUACA got me info that AA would change the A/C later and to sit tight.
I got a lot of good perspective on a now closed thread. There was some good discussion about what would happen.
Update:
the a/c Now looks like it changed to domestic MCE with 6 rows and we're now all assigned seats.
Having read the fare code basis, there is no way one could see this being an instant upgrade fare, which many felt this was. But seeing fare code "d" makes it tougher to decipher. So if we're downgraded, I will follow with the DOT as suggested.
Anyway, that's the update I said I'd provide. Still several weeks to go and I guess anything can still happen.
One new question. D fare show as RTW, discount business and y26nCP. <---what exactly is that
A at code? Google gives no info
Nov 15, 2015, 9:17 pm
#394
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,233
Having read the fare code basis, there is no way one could see this being an instant upgrade fare, which many felt this was. But seeing fare code "d" makes it tougher to decipher. So if we're downgraded, I will follow with the DOT as suggested.
One new question. D fare show as RTW, discount business and y26nCP. <---what exactly is that
A at code? Google gives no info
A at code? Google gives no info
Not sure I understand what you're asking here at all. Why are you mentioning round-the-world fares? Maybe you could re-phrase?
Nov 15, 2015, 9:34 pm
#395
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NYC
Posts: 27,233
Thanks! It was actually $112.61 but I rounded. When I finally got the refund amount, they said it was the cost of full-fare economy to discounted first class and that "Please note that fare prices fluctuate and are not always the same. There are many variables that determines the price of a flight."
When I finally got the refund amount, they said it was the cost of full-fare economy to discounted first class and that "Please note that fare prices fluctuate and are not always the same. There are many variables that determines the price of a flight."This is precisely what the DOT complaint system is set up for (I would just ignore a few posters in particular), and if that doesn't get an appropriate response, small claims court.
Nov 15, 2015, 9:48 pm
#396
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,597
Well, that's certainly one problem there - they should be calculating the difference between either discounted economy and discounted first class, or between full fare economy and full fare first class. They can't just pick and choose so it comes out most favorable for them.
Even so, the airline has offered lower than its published amount of $248
Nov 15, 2015, 9:54 pm
#397
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NY
Programs: AA, Hilton
Posts: 1,575
But in your case, the fare basis does indicate it's an -UP fare, with the /CRUP designator. It means it was an underlying VNE3C0Z1 coach fare (that would have booked in V), effectively upgraded to business class for an additional fee. If anything, it strengthens the argument that you paid for business class. Perhaps more importantly, it makes it rather easy to calculate the fare differential. If you can provide the original date you booked the flight, someone can probably look up the historical fares of both the V fare and the D-UP on ExpertFlyer. If, for some reason, you do end up flying in coach, this amount is the minimum that you should fight for, whether via AA or DOT.
Not sure I understand what you're asking here at all. Why are you mentioning round-the-world fares? Maybe you could re-phrase?
Not sure I understand what you're asking here at all. Why are you mentioning round-the-world fares? Maybe you could re-phrase?-since this all started, I signed up for expertflyer.
takes a bit of getting used to. I'll look for the v fare but what's the D-up going to come up as? Mind if I pm you date info? I'll see if I'm doing it right if we arrive at the same values?- when I looked up AA fare codes, it lists that fare code "D" is either RTW, discounted business class or Y26nYP fares. So I was trying to figure out what that "y26ncp" signified.
Nov 16, 2015, 12:00 am
#398
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
And yet I would still book a 757 every time given the option due to its better legroom, seat comfort, recline, and the fact that it will outperform an A321 in any measurable way (including allowing a full 24 seat F cabin on a Hawaii flight).
Nov 16, 2015, 12:14 am
#399
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Alameda, CA, US
Programs: BAEC Gold (GGL/CCR), HHonors Diamond
Posts: 1,346
So out of curiosity I just checked for an upcoming trip I will book this week for flying December 6-11. The flights I normally would book currently would book into P,A,A and P,P,P on the return. Where does AA actually point this out, that this is an instant upgrade fare. This was on AA.com, but this would usually booked through travel agent.
Even when I look at the fare rules, I don't see it. So far I have been lucky this year, only had 1 misconnect where I ended up in a middle seat in Y as the next flight 3 hours later had no open F seat and I would have had to wait for another 5 hours for a F seat. Distance of 646 miles and refund was $54.17.
Even when I look at the fare rules, I don't see it. So far I have been lucky this year, only had 1 misconnect where I ended up in a middle seat in Y as the next flight 3 hours later had no open F seat and I would have had to wait for another 5 hours for a F seat. Distance of 646 miles and refund was $54.17.
Nov 16, 2015, 12:28 am
#400
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,548
-Booked in V? I guess that's what bug s me, that the fare code is D.
-since this all started, I signed up for expertflyer. takes a bit of getting used to. I'll look for the v fare but what's the D-up going to come up as? Mind if I pm you date info? I'll see if I'm doing it right if we arrive at the same values?
.
-since this all started, I signed up for expertflyer.
takes a bit of getting used to. I'll look for the v fare but what's the D-up going to come up as? Mind if I pm you date info? I'll see if I'm doing it right if we arrive at the same values?.
Due to the instant upgrade this maps into D I am guessing. It is not a "D-UP" fare (which I think would be an international J to F instant up, ive bought those before... books to P.)
I cannot find your precise fare basis...but does the first part of the 'rule' mention this?
CLASS OF SERVICE
THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE.
THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE.
Nov 16, 2015, 7:34 am
#401
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MSN
Programs: AA, BAEC Gold
Posts: 3,929
So out of curiosity I just checked for an upcoming trip I will book this week for flying December 6-11. The flights I normally would book currently would book into P,A,A and P,P,P on the return. Where does AA actually point this out, that this is an instant upgrade fare. This was on AA.com, but this would usually booked through travel agent.
Even when I look at the fare rules, I don't see it. So far I have been lucky this year, only had 1 misconnect where I ended up in a middle seat in Y as the next flight 3 hours later had no open F seat and I would have had to wait for another 5 hours for a F seat. Distance of 646 miles and refund was $54.17.
Even when I look at the fare rules, I don't see it. So far I have been lucky this year, only had 1 misconnect where I ended up in a middle seat in Y as the next flight 3 hours later had no open F seat and I would have had to wait for another 5 hours for a F seat. Distance of 646 miles and refund was $54.17.
Nov 16, 2015, 8:39 am
#402
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO, USA
Programs: AA PPro, Mariott Gold Elite, Lowly kettle across every other loyalty program.
Posts: 778
Sorry, in tablet mode, so hyperlink unavailable.
Nov 16, 2015, 8:48 am
#403
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Alameda, CA, US
Programs: BAEC Gold (GGL/CCR), HHonors Diamond
Posts: 1,346
NOTE - THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT
VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE
AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS.
APPLICATION
CLASS OF SERVICE
THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE.
CAPACITY LIMITATIONS
SEATS ARE LIMITED
BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES
MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES
PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING.
ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE
AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS.
APPLICATION
CLASS OF SERVICE
THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE.
CAPACITY LIMITATIONS
SEATS ARE LIMITED
BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES
MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES
PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
Nov 16, 2015, 8:49 am
#404
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MCO
Programs: AA, B6, DL, EK, EY, QR, SQ, UA, Amex Plat, Marriott Tit, HHonors Gold
Posts: 12,809
We're talking LUS, ex-HP 757-200 here, not the LAA domestic version. 12F, beat-up standard recliners. There's a thread here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...er-thread.html
Sorry, in tablet mode, so hyperlink unavailable.
Sorry, in tablet mode, so hyperlink unavailable.
Nov 16, 2015, 9:13 am
#405
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: MSN
Programs: AA, BAEC Gold
Posts: 3,929
First/Business Fares may be an Instant Upgrade and therefore subject to restrictions.
Which isn't very definitive but is a warning to look for the text that you found. The code doesn't appear to have "UP" embedded, which they used to. The bit about getting $0.10 per mile if you are downgraded is buried in the general FAQ. The whole thing is a mess and they should either make it clearer or just call them discounted First or Business with a lower place in the pecking order.