Jul 10, 2013, 4:13 pm
Last edit by: JDiver
SIZE="4"]AA "instant upgrade" (-UP) fare
Click here for the current thread.
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These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
E.G. During irregular operations or missed connections, one may continue in that class of service if A, P, D, I etc. as applicable is available, or the passenger can take a voluntary downgrade to the lower class of service / Y on an earlier flight. Some may do this if waiting for A, P or I requires one or more overnights.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
One explanatory post (15 Apr 2015) might be:
Click here for the current thread.
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These are often referred to as "instant upgrade" fares; they upgrade into the class of service P, A or I internationally with positive space; OSO / schedule disruptions mean unless the P, A, D, I etc. fare is offered on the new flight they "downgrade" to Coach on the next available flight. (One can wait for the next flight with P, A, D, I available, but this might require overnights etc. at one's expense.)
Purchasers should carefully read the Detailed Fare Rules, as many of these are, as essentially "instant upgrades", punitive in effect during IROPS / OSO", "change of gauge" aircraft substitutions, cancellations and missed connections because if the necessary fare inventory isn't available one is generally given the option to fly now, in Economy, or wait until such inventory becomes available (which may entail hours or days at the passenger's own expense).
The detailed fare codes for these flights might look like (international) GNE7C0Z1/CRUP or SNE7C0Z1/CRUP, Lxxxx, etc. Reaccommodation in Coach: these particular sample fates will be treated like an N class fare. As well: "The most restrictive set of fare rules applies to the entire itinerary. In addition other fare rules may apply."
In the detailed fare rules, instant upgrade fares may include something like this:
ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONE-CLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
Refunds may be limited to $0.50 per mile to a maximum of $50 per downgraded segment, and are limited to vouchers good for future travel on AA.
Link to compensation offered for an involuntary downgrade of "instant upgrade" fares:
Instant Upgrade tickets are booked in the Main Cabin. However, Instant upgrade ticketholders who travel in the Main Cabin due to an involuntary seat change, equipment change, routing change, flight cancellation, or missed connection as a result of a late incoming flight may request a travel voucher. The voucher value shall be equal to $0.10 per mile, or $50, whichever is greater, for each flight segment flown in the downgraded cabin. Refunds will be rounded to the nearest whole dollar amount, and can be requested at www.aa.com/refunds.
...
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
The fare rules for both tickets provide the following as the last entry:
Why does this matter? Because if I buy either of these tickets and then I decide that I want to fly an earlier or later flight, these fares will not permit me to walk up to the counter and claim a last-minute F seat if my capacity-controlled inventory is not available. For instance, if that last F seat is in F (not P or A), then I'd have to pay the fare difference in order to confirm a change to that seat.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
Just moments ago, I priced out a trip from LAX to DFW, and two different discounted First Class ticket options were presented, the fare class of one was SA00ZNI1 (books into P) and the other was MA00ZRI1 (books into A).
At the bottom of the purchase summary screen, AA provides this warning:
■ First/Business Fares may be an Instant Upgrade and therefore subject to restrictions.
Rule Application
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
and Other Conditions
NOTE THE FOLLOWING TEXT IS INFORMATIONAL AND NOT VALIDATED FOR AUTOPRICING. ECONOMY FARE WITH AN INSTANT ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF PURCHASE TO FIRST/BUSINESS. APPLICATION CLASS OF SERVICE THESE FARES APPLY FOR ECONOMY CLASS SERVICE. CAPACITY LIMITATIONS SEATS ARE LIMITED BOTH ECONOMY AND FIRST CLASS BOOKING INVENTORIES MUST BE AVAILABLE AT TIME OF BOOKING. THESE FARES PERMIT A ONECLASS UPGRADE AT THE TIME OF BOOKING.
We can (and have for years and years) argued around here that these fare practices are misleading - and I agree. Nevertheless, AA is most certainly still selling what it considers to be "instant upgrade" fares, and savvy travelers should read the fare rules* and plan accordingly.
*Or at least download them to your hard drive as a pdf at the time of reservation/purchase so that others might help decipher them when things go inverted. So often around here, people post questions where reading the fare rules is vital to an accurate answer, and they respond "who reads/saves those when buying a ticket?"
Back to the OP's question: How to find instant upgrade tickets? Nearly every domestic first class fare I've seen on aa.com is an instant upgrade ticket. Finding a domestic first class fare that isn't an instant upgrade fare is quite a chore. The OP can rest assured that if their fare books in P, A or F, they're going to earn their hoped-for tier points. As Microwave pointed out, the best/correct place for that discussion is in the British Airways forum where there are numerous BAEC members with experience in buying and flying on AA's instant upgrade F tickets.
ARCHIVE: AA "instant upgrade" (-UP, YUP) fare discount First (master thd)
Nov 15, 2015, 1:40 pm
#361
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,552
DOT or no DOT, the AA behavior is reprehensible. Hiding the disclosure at the bottom of the ALL CAP wall of text that can be accessed only if you deliberately looking for it and know where the text is hidden is the definition of being shady. Everywhere else on the website the P fare is advertised as a real first class fare.
Nov 15, 2015, 1:46 pm
#362
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA MM Plat; AA MM Gold; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 15,866
This thread will make me reconsider booking AA as an alternative to UA. Never saw any reports of similar behavior by UA or DL on this forum. I would be apoplectic had this happened to me, and to top it off AA ticked off a number of folks who bought MCE by summarily booting them out of their seats. Absolutely unreal.
Nov 15, 2015, 1:50 pm
#363
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 3,698
In this case, if AA wants to argue "instant upgrade", according to their website they owe OP $248.50 per ticket since they say that you get $.10 per mile for downgrades on these fares and LAX-OGG is 2485 miles.
So I'm perplexed as to how AA is possibly arguing that they only owe $100. I'd definitely file a complaint with the DOT about the refund, arguing that AA owes the fare difference or the $248.50, but certainly not less and that they're engaging in unfair trade practices otherwise. I'd also just charge back to your credit card for either the fare difference (if you can figure it out) or $148.50 per ticket since AA clearly didn't deliver the service they contracted for when you made the payment.
So I'm perplexed as to how AA is possibly arguing that they only owe $100. I'd definitely file a complaint with the DOT about the refund, arguing that AA owes the fare difference or the $248.50, but certainly not less and that they're engaging in unfair trade practices otherwise. I'd also just charge back to your credit card for either the fare difference (if you can figure it out) or $148.50 per ticket since AA clearly didn't deliver the service they contracted for when you made the payment.
Nov 15, 2015, 1:52 pm
#365
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: DFW
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 1,590
In this case, if AA wants to argue "instant upgrade", according to their website they owe OP $248.50 per ticket since they say that you get $.10 per mile for downgrades on these fares and LAX-OGG is 2485 miles.
So I'm perplexed as to how AA is possibly arguing that they only owe $100. I'd definitely file a complaint with the DOT about the refund, arguing that AA owes the fare difference or the $248.50, but certainly not less and that they're engaging in unfair trade practices otherwise. I'd also just charge back to your credit card for either the fare difference (if you can figure it out) or $148.50 per ticket since AA clearly didn't deliver the service they contracted for when you made the payment.
So I'm perplexed as to how AA is possibly arguing that they only owe $100. I'd definitely file a complaint with the DOT about the refund, arguing that AA owes the fare difference or the $248.50, but certainly not less and that they're engaging in unfair trade practices otherwise. I'd also just charge back to your credit card for either the fare difference (if you can figure it out) or $148.50 per ticket since AA clearly didn't deliver the service they contracted for when you made the payment.
Last edited by 869; Nov 15, 2015 at 6:30 pm Reason: Incorrect info
Nov 15, 2015, 1:53 pm
#366
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 44,552
I missed that the airline was failing to compensate in line with its own policies.
Contact DOT with the AA policy , details of flight length and so what is due is a $248 voucher
According to https://www.aa.com/pubcontent/en_US/...ce/Refunds.jsp , the amount is $0.10 per mile or $50 , whichever is higher
Contact DOT with the AA policy , details of flight length and so what is due is a $248 voucher
Originally Posted by AA
Instant Upgrade tickets are booked in the Main Cabin. However, Instant upgrade ticketholders who travel in the Main Cabin due to an involuntary seat change, equipment change, routing change, flight cancellation, or missed connection as a result of a late incoming flight may request a travel voucher. The voucher value shall be equal to $0.10 per mile, or $50, whichever is greater, for each flight segment flown in the downgraded cabin. Refunds will be rounded to the nearest whole dollar amount, and can be requested at www.aa.com/refunds.
Nov 15, 2015, 1:53 pm
#367
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: OKC
Programs: IHG Spire, National Exec, AA Plat
Posts: 2,274
Is weight and balance really this common of a problem on the 321? It's been forever since I have heard of W&B concerns on a non-regional bird.
Nov 15, 2015, 2:00 pm
#368
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SNA LAX
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 116
BTW, I had a similar experience a week ago on LAX-BOS on A321. The flight was subject to weight restrictions because of too few passengers, 2 or 3 PAX from F were moved into Y. I got a complimentary upgrade at T-100 and, fortunately, wasn't affected. However, I overheard that the downgraded PAX were allowed to move to F after the takeoff for dinner and could stay there as long as they wanted until the final descent. A much better way to deal with the problem.
Felt even worse for the other couples who splurged on F for their honeymoon or anniversary and thought it was a true first class ticket. They could have booked economy for a fraction of what they paid. One couple was traveling MIA-LAX on the 1st leg and same thing happened with weight restriction on a 321. So, they essentially flew economy the whole way.
Aside from wanting to burn $$, I can't see who would pay $6K for an "unrestricted" first class ticket from LAX-OGG on a basic narrow-body jet? Even if you had a ton of money, what a joke. You have to go out of your way to book that class and it's not simple to navigate to get those fares. Regardless of the fine print, it's truly bait and switch and absolves them of any responsibility. Poor form.
Nov 15, 2015, 2:01 pm
#369
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SNA LAX
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 116
i missed that the airline was failing to compensate in line with its own policies.
Contact dot with the aa policy , details of flight length and so what is due is a $248 voucher
according to https://www.aa.com/pubcontent/en_us/...ce/refunds.jsp , the amount is $0.10 per mile or $50 , whichever is higher
Contact dot with the aa policy , details of flight length and so what is due is a $248 voucher
according to https://www.aa.com/pubcontent/en_us/...ce/refunds.jsp , the amount is $0.10 per mile or $50 , whichever is higher
Nov 15, 2015, 2:06 pm
#370
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: AA EXP
Posts: 5,270
Aside from wanting to burn $$, I can't see who would pay $6K for an "unrestricted" first class ticket from LAX-OGG on a basic narrow-body jet? Even if you had a ton of money, what a joke. You have to go out of your way to book that class and it's not simple to navigate to get those fares.
Nov 15, 2015, 2:11 pm
#371
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SNA LAX
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 116
In this case, if AA wants to argue "instant upgrade", according to their website they owe OP $248.50 per ticket since they say that you get $.10 per mile for downgrades on these fares and LAX-OGG is 2485 miles.
So I'm perplexed as to how AA is possibly arguing that they only owe $100. I'd definitely file a complaint with the DOT about the refund, arguing that AA owes the fare difference or the $248.50, but certainly not less and that they're engaging in unfair trade practices otherwise. I'd also just charge back to your credit card for either the fare difference (if you can figure it out) or $148.50 per ticket since AA clearly didn't deliver the service they contracted for when you made the payment.
So I'm perplexed as to how AA is possibly arguing that they only owe $100. I'd definitely file a complaint with the DOT about the refund, arguing that AA owes the fare difference or the $248.50, but certainly not less and that they're engaging in unfair trade practices otherwise. I'd also just charge back to your credit card for either the fare difference (if you can figure it out) or $148.50 per ticket since AA clearly didn't deliver the service they contracted for when you made the payment.
When I finally got the refund amount, they said it was the cost of full-fare economy to discounted first class and that "Please note that fare prices fluctuate and are not always the same. There are many variables that determines the price of a flight."I was also told the following in the annoying "you can't reply" email correspondence they have going on with me.
October 31, 2015
Dear :
Thank you for contacting American Airlines Customer Relations. We are pleased to respond to your inquiry.
Please accept our apology for the difficulties you encountered when you traveled with us to Maui. From your description of what happened it certainly sounds as if the entire experience was frustrating. We are truly sorry to hear we didn't provide the level of service you expect and deserve.
I'm sorry you weren't able to sit in First Class. We do everything possible to prevent anyone from being inconvenienced, but there are certain circumstances that require our agents to move a customer from First Class to Coach. I've asked our Passenger Refund Department to check for a fare difference from Los Angeles to Maui from First Class to Economy. Please allow time for them to review your refund request. The refund will go back to the original form of payment. If you used a credit card to pay, please allow 1 to 2 billing cycles for the refund to show on your statement."
Sincerely,
Customer Relations
American Airlines
It sounds like the .10c a mile does apply so I should definitely receive more than what they gave me. Thanks so much for including that.
I appreciate the warm welcome, too. Thanks!
Nov 15, 2015, 2:14 pm
#372
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
Both UA and DL have variations on the same thing. DOT has made it pretty clear that so long as the disclosure is in the fare rules, it won't get into the issue. It may annoy people, but it isn't going to change.
Likely the people who were not DG were in paid F or were otherwise HVC's which AA would find a way not to displace.
Practices like this may be scummy, but so long as the competition do it and the government isn't going to get into the act, there's no real disincentive to AA, UA or DL.
DOT absolutely had the opportunity to deal with this when consideration was given as to whether the US ought to adopt something akin to EC 261/2004. Had OP been on a flight x EU, AA would have owed him at least 75% of the value of the segment, if not the ticket (although the latter is not realistic).
Likely the people who were not DG were in paid F or were otherwise HVC's which AA would find a way not to displace.
Practices like this may be scummy, but so long as the competition do it and the government isn't going to get into the act, there's no real disincentive to AA, UA or DL.
DOT absolutely had the opportunity to deal with this when consideration was given as to whether the US ought to adopt something akin to EC 261/2004. Had OP been on a flight x EU, AA would have owed him at least 75% of the value of the segment, if not the ticket (although the latter is not realistic).
Nov 15, 2015, 2:14 pm
#373
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: New York
Programs: AA Platinum, Marriott Platinum Elite, SPG Gold
Posts: 320
Wow - this is a learning curve. I currently hold a ticket from den-hog-nrt-jfk in P. Fingers crossed I won't have any problems but feel caught in thinking I bought a proper First Class in the first place.
Nov 15, 2015, 2:20 pm
#374
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: SNA LAX
Programs: AA PLT
Posts: 116
Makes the whole thing seem even more like a big sham. Pretty shady... guess I'm fortunate that it only managed to happen to me once. Live and learn I suppose.
Last edited by MauiOC; Nov 15, 2015 at 2:43 pm
Nov 15, 2015, 2:24 pm
#375
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: SFO
Programs: UA MM Gold, AA Ex Plat, SPG Plat,Hyatt Diamond, Marriott Gold, National Executive Elite
Posts: 992
IANAP = I am not a pilot, but usually W&B considerations matter for takeoff. After the aircraft has climbed enough, it's OK for people to change seats. I'm surprised that you weren't allowed to move up to the FC cabin at that point and stay there for the remainder of the flight.
BTW, I know that W&B on small aircraft creates an exception to DOT IDB rules, so I wonder whether there would also be some DOT exception clause for downgrades due to W&B more generally.
BTW, I know that W&B on small aircraft creates an exception to DOT IDB rules, so I wonder whether there would also be some DOT exception clause for downgrades due to W&B more generally.
