cmd320

Just out of curiosity, what causes a 738 seat to go inop? All it really does is recline about two inches. Doesn't really seem like something that should make the seat unusable. Other than that there's really no other function to the seat.

MaximusDamon

Yup. I had selected 6F when I booked.

Some on the thread suggested that I should have asked for someone else to be downgraded instead of me...someone that was upgraded. Without throwing too much DYKWIA sass around, I did ask the gate agent why they didn't downgrade someone else who actually got an upgrade with lower status or a cheaper fare. Her response was "I didn't upgrade anyone. I'm not moving anyone else out of First. You paid for economy and you're going to be seated in economy." It is hard to believe all 15 pax in that cabin paid for F (or an up fare).

I also asked about taking another flight and was told there was nothing else available that day in F. All flights were full. The clock was ticking and I wasn't feeling well and wanted to get home after a long week. I did call EXP reservations and was also also told there weren't any other flight options that day - confirming what the gate agent told me. I decided to suck it up and get on the plane. But the treatment of this fare, the way it's sold, the insistence that there's nothing more than maybe $50 owed, and the response from customer service to a customer who buys premium fares 90% of the time and earned ExPlat again months ago, is what leaves a very bad taste in my mouth.

jmr50

This happened to me, and I was given the same offer. I complained to the DoT and after some back and forth received a call from AA HQ which gave me a pro-rated refund to my credit card and a non-apology. Of course, mine happened in October 2013 and it's a while different world now... but I filed a DOT complaint via the web form and got help from a Mr. Davis from DOT who was went back and forth for just short of 2 months before getting resolution.

MrAndy1369

Was the GA rude? Based on the context and the way you've presented her in this thread, I'm inclined to think so.

umaa83

It says it very clearly below your trip details in the five bullet points right below the fare rules link, which you are required to acknowledge you read before submitting payment, that you may have purchased an instant upgrade fare complete with its own restrictions. Right above where you type in your credit card info. How is that misleading?

Should AA maybe have a separate category labelled "instant upgrade" when selecting fares like coach plus, etc? Maybe, but they technically have met the requirements to the consumer under the current laws.

eyeballer

The text says: "First/Business Fares may be an Instant Upgrade and therefore subject to restrictions." "MAY" - why? If it's an -UP fare the website should know and state clearly that it "IS" and what exactly that means.

Also the exact same text appears if you book an F fare - so it's not differentiating the P fare.

It's clearly deceptive any way you look at it and the DOT should step in and stop this practice by the legacies.

umaa83

Again, there's an indication it might be an instant upgrade. And the website does know, If the OP had read the fare rules, which he/she would have needed to check yes to compete their purchase, it indicates what those restrictions are. Any questions? Call AA. End of DOT complaint. Maybe it's the attorney/CPA in me but it's amazing the number of people that sign contracts and then claim they were never told XYZ condition exists.

SS255

UA does the same thing, and I think it's unacceptable. If a customer is booking a flight, selects first class, and books a ticket that says "first class" every step of the way, it is reasonable to assume that the airline sold that customer a first class ticket. The DOT needs to crack down on this.

Dave Noble

actually the fare rules do not state that it is an instant upgrade nor that there is possibility of not being accommodated in 1st class

provides information that it is an upgrade provided at time of purchase. It does not give any term that states that there is anything other than a requirement that both 1st and economy bases are available at time of purchase

It does not state that the airline can revoke the 1st class

umaa83

Under application class of service where it says "ECONOMY" (will ignore the fact that the second sentence starts with ECONOMY FARE WITH UPGRADE). What do you suppose that means? It means you bought an economy class ticket. How much clearer should they make it? The OPs seat wasn't revoked, it was in op. They choose to fly in economy instead of waiting for a first class seat, either the same day or days later. No compensation is due from first class to economy because it was an economy class ticket. Says right in your quote above, in two separate places.

Any basis for a partial refund would potentially fall in the argument that the OP purchased a more expensive economy ticket allowing for a one class upgrade, per the T&C, and due to operational reasons that upgrade could not be accommodate in a reasonable time. A difference in fare between economy fares would be due, not first class.

jordyn

Huh? Not even AA agrees with your interpretation since they do commit to providing downgrade compensation (just not necessarily the fare difference and not an amount that's disclosed anywhere in the purchase flow).

Distinction without a difference. I assume what most people would think would be reasonable would the difference between fare paid and the economy alternative available at the time of booking. You are saying that is the difference between one type of economy fare and another type of economy fare--who cares as long as the amount of money is the same?

Moreover, you're just ignoring the argument made above that the fine print can't override the big print. I can't advertise a "cashmere sweater" and then have some fine print that says "actually, I'm selling you an itchy wool sweater". The fine print clarifies the original offer, it doesn't override it. In this case, the big print says that you're buying a first class fare so AA doesn't get to act like they sold you something different when push comes to shove.

Just by way of contrast, when Delta downgrades you on an -UP fare, they refund the fare difference and give an additional $200 in voucher-equivalent credit. I think if this is how AA handled these situations, they'd have a lot fewer unhappy customers and a lot fewer people asking the DOT to look into deceptive marketing practices.

umaa83

The OP was stating they were under the impression that they had purchased a First class ticket and wanted to be compensated as such. It's clear if they would have read the T&C, which you have to check a box saying you did before purchase, that they did not.

It doesn't matter in this case what Delta does or doesn't do. AA lists their policies and the OP was compensated accordingly. Ignorance is not a defense in this case since the OP would have been required to check the box saying they read the T&C, which clearly states it's an economy class ticket.

I'm also not ignoring a discrepancy in fine print. The OP would have been accommodated in FC, had they been willing to wait for the next available first class seat. No one at AA handcuffed them and walked them down and stuck them in Y. The OP made the decision to take the Y seat and is now being compensated based on the type of ticket he/she purchased. It also doesn't state anywhere in the booking process that you are booking a First/Business class fare, just which cabin you are in and the corresponding price. There's a lowest FARE option, but First/Business options is just the price you will pay for that cabin, not that you are buying a true F/J fare class. That's why there is a link to the T&Cs prior to entering your credit card information for purchase.

Whether or not AA should be required to have it flashing bright lights is between you and your local state representative because currently that's not the law.

cmd320

Absolutely ridiculous.

All that is clearly noted before ticketing is the following...

... and I'm using the term clearly very loosely in that context as it's placed in very inconspicuous font at the bottom of the fare rules page. Furthermore, it doesn't even tell you whether or not you're purchasing one of these, it just says you may be, and it gives zero information as to what this means.

In order to find a little more information one can click "View Fare Rules" which brings up a box of complete nonsense to anyone without a law or airline revenue management background and then at the very bottom of that long list of terms and conditions you get to the following box heading:

Rule Application and Other Conditions

This contains the following "information":

Okay, so here it finally states that this fare is a Y fare with an "instant one-class upgrade" and that "capacity limitations seats are limited both economy and first class booking inventories must be available at the time of booking." This sentence seems as though it was constructed by five employees who each spoke different languages, none of them English, and then spliced together. The only real meaning that I can derive from it is that there needs to be a seat at the time of booking in order to be seated in first class, and as long as that condition is met, you'll be flying in F. Done.

Nowhere does it state that the seat can be taken away without reaccommodation because AA's shoddy aircraft decided to have maintenance issues that day. All it seems to state is that the F seat must be there at booking to be seated in F, as long as that is satisfied, you're good to go.

This is clearly a case of the airline attempting to mislead customers into thinking they're purchasing an F fare when in reality they aren't, and then proceeding to decline responsibility when a problem arises. This is about as clear of an example of an Unfair Trade Practice as can be found. It is deceptive and very unethical.

It kind of makes you wonder why AA moved away from the terminology "instant upgrade" in the price matrix on AA.com? What exactly was wrong with keeping that?

Also, if I went to book an F ticket over the phone, I know the phone agent isn't going to sit there and disclose the terms and conditions to me, but could easily book me into P class. In that instance the customer would have absolutely no idea.

To be clear, this is not an issue isolated to AA. DL had been doing this before AA started and from what it sounds like UA does the same thing. These fares need to be categorized under something other than F/J as that is a completely misleading representation of what the customer is actually selecting.

wrp96

AA.com used to have a column specifically for instant upgrade fares in addition to the column for first fares. To me it's shady that they don't still have that column.

umaa83

I don't know how many times I have to say this but here it goes again. You are required to check the box attesting to the fact you read the T&C prior to purchase (it's not there for decoration). If the OP checked the box and didn't read it, it's not the airlines fault. All that is required under US law is that all terms and conditions of the ticket are disclosed. They are, and the buyer has to check a box saying they read it.

Again, AA didn't take away the OP's seat. They could have flown in F on the next available flight. Unfortunately, the next available flight wasn't soon so the OP agreed to fly in Y. The exact same thing would have happened to someone who had purchased a full fare F ticket, except the refund between F and Y I'm going to guess would have been greater.