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AA Bump Rates; compensation for VDB / Voluntary Denied Boarding (master thread)

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Old Mar 31, 2016, 5:15 pm
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AA Bump Rates: Volunteer Compensation / Voluntary Denied Boarding

Passengers involuntarily denied boarding on AA are denied usually after calls for volunteers to accept vouchers (and occasionally variable other benefits), usually beginning at $200 or $300 but possibly going significantly higher, depending on passenger response. See more below, including AA Conditions of Carriage.

See IDB / Involuntarily Denied Boarding on AA & Compensation (master thread) for INVOLUNTARILY denied boarding.

Link to US Dept. of Transportation Aviation Consumer Protection Division's "Fly-Rights - A Consumer Guide to Air Travel" section on Overbooking

"IDB" (involuntarily denied boarding) compensation is governed in the USA by "14 CFR 250.5 - Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily".

Link to CFR §250.5; as well:

14 CFR § 250.2b Carriers to request volunteers for denied boarding.
(a) In the event of an oversold flight, every carrier shall request volunteers for denied boarding before using any other boarding priority. A “volunteer” is a person who responds to the carrier's request for volunteers and who willingly accepts the carriers' offer of compensation, in any amount, in exchange for relinquishing the confirmed reserved space. Any other passenger denied boarding is considered for purposes of this part to have been denied boarding involuntarily, even if that passenger accepts the denied boarding compensation.

(b) Every carrier shall advise each passenger solicited to volunteer for denied boarding, no later than the time the carrier solicits that passenger to volunteer, whether he or she is in danger of being involuntarily denied boarding and, if so, the compensation the carrier is obligated to pay if the passenger is involuntarily denied boarding. If an insufficient number of volunteers come forward, the carrier may deny boarding to other passengers in accordance with its boarding priority rules.

14 CFR § 250.9 Written explanation of denied boarding compensation and boarding priorities, and verbal notification of denied boarding compensation.
(a) Every carrier shall furnish passengers who are denied boarding involuntarily from flights on which they hold confirmed reserved space immediately after the denied boarding occurs, a written statement explaining the terms, conditions, and limitations of denied boarding compensation, and describing the carriers' boarding priority rules and criteria. The carrier shall also furnish the statement to any person upon request at all airport ticket selling positions which are in the charge of a person employed exclusively by the carrier, or by it jointly with another person or persons, and at all boarding locations being used by the carrier.

Link to AA Conditions of Carriage, "Oversales"

In the European Union, EC261/2004 governs denied boarding compensation.

Link to EC261 / EC 261/2004 complaints and AA (master thread)

On American Airlines, you are sometimes ineligible for IDB as allowed by the USDOT:
If a flight is oversold (more passengers hold confirmed reservations than there are seats available), no one may be denied boarding against his or her will until airline personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservation willingly, in exchange for compensation of the airline’s choosing. If there are not enough volunteers, other passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with the following boarding priority of American. In such events, American will usually deny boarding based upon check-in time, but we may also consider factors such as severe hardships, fare paid, and status within the AAdvantage® program.

If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of
‘‘denied boarding compensation’’ from the airline unless:

- You have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or

- You are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or

You are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons; or

- On a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or

- You are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or

- The airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of your original flight.[/code]

The previous thread is http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...solidated.html
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AA Bump Rates; compensation for VDB / Voluntary Denied Boarding (master thread)

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Old Jul 31, 2018, 8:48 am
  #526  
 
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VDB offer report:
Was flying PHX-DCA (connection; flew into PHX from SMF). PHX-DCA was oversold, the GA was offering $550 for about ~2.5 hours later arrival into DCA (PHX-ORD-DCA). Said no meal voucher would be offered as the PHX-ORD would be less than 2 hours away from the original PHX-DCA. Asked to be put in F, was told F was unavailable (this despite the app showing F as available). As I had to work the next day, and would have to take an Uber/Lyft due to the later arrival into DCA and public transportation options being closed by then, I declined. The lack of meal voucher and no willingness to put me in F was also a factor. I asked if she would offer more than $550, and she said no.

In hindsight, perhaps I could've taken it for $550, but I'd get into DCA later, have no public transportation home, no meal voucher, and not being seated into F... didn't feel it was really worth it.
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Last edited by MrAndy1369; Jul 31, 2018 at 9:03 am
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Old Aug 6, 2018, 9:01 am
  #527  
 
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8/4 - CLE-->ORD oversold by one. $300 voucher offered and taken - next flight out was about 3 hours later. I now have $600 in AA vouchers... not sure if I should spend them on my monthly travel to DFW or find an excuse to go somewhere else!
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Old Aug 6, 2018, 9:18 am
  #528  
 
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Originally Posted by plinth857
8/4 - CLE-->ORD oversold by one. $300 voucher offered and taken - next flight out was about 3 hours later. I now have $600 in AA vouchers... not sure if I should spend them on my monthly travel to DFW or find an excuse to go somewhere else!
The latter is the best option!!

$100/hr is my minimum for VDB... so I would say that's a good deal, and I would probably take it.

I never overnight for less than $1000 VDB anymore. Just a rule of thumb.
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Old Aug 6, 2018, 10:19 am
  #529  
 
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8/4 AA 685 DCA-PHX overbooked by 2. Asked for volunteers giving a $570 voucher to those who "have flexible plans". 3 people volunteered (one couple and myself). Ended up not needing me (or thought so) and told me to board. Lo and behold a GA walked on the plane and told me to go and talk to customer service as "there is a problem with my ticket"! I grab my stuff and walk out. In the jetbridge, I meet the elderly couple and a young girl (who probably took my seat) walking towards the plane. They close the door right after I exit and they tell me that they ended up needing my seat as they didn't want to split the elderly couple (someone no showed). They rebooked me on a flight the following day at 7:05am. I was pretty unhappy that they gave away my seat without telling me my alternatives and that the agent lied to me about "an issue with my ticket".

Next day's flight ended up being cancelled due to mechanical so I spent 10 hours at DCA. Pretty much every flight out was oversold (bad weather in the NE). The bump rates ranged from $300 (shorter flights) all the way to $900 (for a flight to PBI).
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Old Aug 6, 2018, 11:20 am
  #530  
 
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Originally Posted by ngls
8/4 AA 685 DCA-PHX overbooked by 2. Asked for volunteers giving a $570 voucher to those who "have flexible plans". 3 people volunteered (one couple and myself). Ended up not needing me (or thought so) and told me to board. Lo and behold a GA walked on the plane and told me to go and talk to customer service as "there is a problem with my ticket"! I grab my stuff and walk out. In the jetbridge, I meet the elderly couple and a young girl (who probably took my seat) walking towards the plane. They close the door right after I exit and they tell me that they ended up needing my seat as they didn't want to split the elderly couple (someone no showed). They rebooked me on a flight the following day at 7:05am. I was pretty unhappy that they gave away my seat without telling me my alternatives and that the agent lied to me about "an issue with my ticket".

Next day's flight ended up being cancelled due to mechanical so I spent 10 hours at DCA. Pretty much every flight out was oversold (bad weather in the NE). The bump rates ranged from $300 (shorter flights) all the way to $900 (for a flight to PBI).
I sure hope you got more then $570 in vouchers for that. That sounds borderline IDB territory.
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Old Aug 7, 2018, 11:14 am
  #531  
 
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Originally Posted by jjmoore
The latter is the best option!!

$100/hr is my minimum for VDB... so I would say that's a good deal, and I would probably take it.

I never overnight for less than $1000 VDB anymore. Just a rule of thumb.
Question for you: Would that rule remain if you did an overnight VDB at your "home" airport?
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Old Aug 7, 2018, 4:37 pm
  #532  
 
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Originally Posted by plinth857
Question for you: Would that rule remain if you did an overnight VDB at your "home" airport?
Yep.. at the end of the day, its about lost time for me... whether I'm stuck at home or away. Being stuck at home is always nice, but I still lose time away from what I had planned, and therefore my $100/hr rule applies.
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Old Aug 7, 2018, 4:40 pm
  #533  
 
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Originally Posted by BThumme
I sure hope you got more then $570 in vouchers for that. That sounds borderline IDB territory.
On that note, I think this case, as described, is worth a write-in to AA, as I believe the gate agents did not follow rules.. you basically were denied boarding, and you may have some recourse for additional compensation...... @ngls
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Old Aug 7, 2018, 5:05 pm
  #534  
 
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Originally Posted by jjmoore
On that note, I think this case, as described, is worth a write-in to AA, as I believe the gate agents did not follow rules.. you basically were denied boarding, and you may have some recourse for additional compensation...... @ngls
I see where you are coming from but I am wondering if signing that VDB voucher relinquishes all future claims. Also, I told the gate agent that you never told me what my options are before you gave away my seat. She was pretty aggressive and said "You never asked!" I was like I want to make sure that I get home before noon tomorrow and then she worked out an itinerary for me which would work that (regardless if I got stuck in DCA for the whole day due to the delay). In any case, this left a sour taste in my mouth as I was pulled out of the plane and I was told that "You should go and talk to customer service since there is a problem with your ticket". In the past, when they needed my seat after boarding, they come in and say "It seems we will need your seat, are you still interested?"

Thinking now if I should write to AA as I've complained a few times lately due to their constant mess ups and I don't want to get blacklisted!
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Old Aug 7, 2018, 5:18 pm
  #535  
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Originally Posted by ngls
I see where you are coming from but I am wondering if signing that VDB voucher relinquishes all future claims. Also, I told the gate agent that you never told me what my options are before you gave away my seat. She was pretty aggressive and said "You never asked!" I was like I want to make sure that I get home before noon tomorrow and then she worked out an itinerary for me which would work that (regardless if I got stuck in DCA for the whole day due to the delay).
That's bush league. One hasn't voluntarily given up his seat until details of compensation and re-route are agreed. That's worth a letter to AA Corporate offices.
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Old Aug 8, 2018, 8:10 am
  #536  
 
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Originally Posted by 3Cforme
That's bush league. One hasn't voluntarily given up his seat until details of compensation and re-route are agreed. That's worth a letter to AA Corporate offices.
Spot on.

They can come on the plane and say 'looks like we need your seat' and you can simply say, "I changed my mind" with no further statement and that is the end of it unless they want to deny you boarding. Write the letter without emotion and state the facts as you have here.
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Old Aug 9, 2018, 8:10 pm
  #537  
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Originally Posted by ngls
I see where you are coming from but I am wondering if signing that VDB voucher relinquishes all future claims.
Yes, you relinquish any claims arising from the VDB by accepting the voucher. You could try writing to corporate, but I wouldn't expect them to cave. I agree with others that was bushleague. I haven't had a VDB on AA in a good while, so I'll have to keep an eye for that trick in the future. Thanks for sharing!
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Old Aug 10, 2018, 7:55 am
  #538  
 
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Originally Posted by uxb
Yes, you relinquish any claims arising from the VDB by accepting the voucher. You could try writing to corporate, but I wouldn't expect them to cave. I agree with others that was bushleague. I haven't had a VDB on AA in a good while, so I'll have to keep an eye for that trick in the future. Thanks for sharing!
The only possibility I see here is a good-will gesture, but certainly no IDB compensation if the VDB voucher was signed.

In any situation like this, do not sign the voucher if you are not happy with the proposal. If you didn't sign it, you would be due IDB compensation in this case, and I think the case would have been easy to argue for.

Just make sure you provide as much information (no emotions... just facts) about what happened, where it happened (flight #, gate, time, airport, etc. etc. etc.), the exact sequence of events, etc. etc. etc.... that will help them identify the agent and get the information they need to evaluate your situation.
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Old Aug 10, 2018, 9:56 am
  #539  
 
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Originally Posted by jjmoore
The only possibility I see here is a good-will gesture, but certainly no IDB compensation if the VDB voucher was signed.
Actually, the DOT is totally clear on this: unless you have an option to stay on the flight, it's IDB. The airline doesn't get to turn it into VDB after the fact by having you sign for a voucher.

In this situation, it's kind of unclear since there was an expression of interest interest in VDB, so AA could claim it's voluntary, but if you were unhappy with the way AA handles it from this point out I think it would be reasonable to assert that AA basically tricked you into getting off the plane and then offered you a deal you wouldn't have accepted up front, so you don't consider the situation voluntary and AA wouldn't allow you back on the plane so you consider yourself to have been IDBed. (I'd make the assertion first to AA and then to the DOT if AA doesn't agree.)
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Old Aug 10, 2018, 10:05 am
  #540  
 
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Originally Posted by jordyn
Actually, the DOT is totally clear on this: unless you have an option to stay on the flight, it's IDB. The airline doesn't get to turn it into VDB after the fact by having you sign for a voucher.

In this situation, it's kind of unclear since there was an expression of interest interest in VDB, so AA could claim it's voluntary, but if you were unhappy with the way AA handles it from this point out I think it would be reasonable to assert that AA basically tricked you into getting off the plane and then offered you a deal you wouldn't have accepted up front, so you don't consider the situation voluntary and AA wouldn't allow you back on the plane so you consider yourself to have been IDBed. (I'd make the assertion first to AA and then to the DOT if AA doesn't agree.)
But if you sign the voucher (regardless of how you were coerced into signing it), you have relinquished your rights to additional compensation. It is going to be very difficult to dispute that. As I always advise, do not sign something unless you know exactly what you are agreeing to. Without signing the VDB document in this case, it would be IDB... period. I think legally, this is quite simple and there is no real grey area. I believe AA should still investigate the circumstances and it would be in their interests to provide a good-will gesture to this pax to prevent additional negative PR.
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