ARCHIVE: Baggage / luggage limits, interline, rules etc. (consolidated)
Jul 20, 2009, 12:55 am
#1
Original Poster
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Location: Santa Monica, CA
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ARCHIVE: Baggage / luggage limits, interline, rules etc. (consolidated)
I am looking at flying from BCN to CDG next month and found a pretty good fare on iberia.com (actually to Orly, but I can transfer) - but then see that it is operated by Vueling. Anybody know if my OneWorld status will do anything for me on the bag fees since it is an Iberia codeshare?
My wife and I travel with 3 checked bags -- the third bag is small, but since the first two are usually right at 50 lbs (Vueling's 23kg limit), I calculated the 3rd bag would cost me 100 Euros or more under their rules.
My wife and I travel with 3 checked bags -- the third bag is small, but since the first two are usually right at 50 lbs (Vueling's 23kg limit), I calculated the 3rd bag would cost me 100 Euros or more under their rules.
Last edited by JDiver; Sep 21, 2015 at 8:28 am Reason: Restore original post title
Jul 20, 2009, 2:22 am
#2
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Think I answered my own question (buried in the Iberia Spain site under baggage):
This allowance is applicable on all Iberia flights as well as those operated by Iberia Regional Air Nostrum. If you are travelling on a code share flight with a flight number that corresponds with either the IB-5000 or IB-7000 series, the regulations of the operating company concerning luggage allowance will apply.
Still trying to figure out if I will earn any mileage?
This allowance is applicable on all Iberia flights as well as those operated by Iberia Regional Air Nostrum. If you are travelling on a code share flight with a flight number that corresponds with either the IB-5000 or IB-7000 series, the regulations of the operating company concerning luggage allowance will apply.
Still trying to figure out if I will earn any mileage?
Jul 20, 2009, 3:08 am
#3
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New Zealand
Programs: NZ , QF , MK
Posts: 1,372
I would say not
http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?...nes/ibiria.jsp
Codeshare Flights
Iberia codeshare flights operated by oneworld carriers and oneworld affiliates are eligible for mileage accrual.
since the flight is not operated by a oneworld carrier , or a oneworld affiliates I would not expect to earn AA mileage on it .
http://www.aa.com/aa/i18nForward.do?...nes/ibiria.jsp
Codeshare Flights
Iberia codeshare flights operated by oneworld carriers and oneworld affiliates are eligible for mileage accrual.
since the flight is not operated by a oneworld carrier , or a oneworld affiliates I would not expect to earn AA mileage on it .
Mar 30, 2011, 6:12 pm
#4
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
New interline baggage fee rules (IATA Reso 302 & MSC): AA ontime adoption?
As many here know, I have posted in the past just how confusing the whole bag fees situation is when you're traveling on multiple carriers.
Specifically, currently AA's contracts don't specify any rules about this; the Conditions of Carriage and International General Rules AA1 imposed on you are vague (the latter reads "In addition to the charges or fees included as part of the purchased fare(s) on the ticket, passengers on codeshare flights operated by another carrier may also be subject to charges and fees imposed by the operating codeshare carrier"), and the DOT has not forced the airlines to provide any clarity on this subject.
IATA Resolution 302, "Baggage Provisions Selection Criteria", is supposed to apply to all tickets issued on or after 1 April 2011, and introduces the concept of the "Most Significant Carrier" (MSC) of the journey, indicating that generally the allowances and fees of the MSC apply to the entire journey (i.e. entire ticket, even if roundtrip).
The resolution is as follows:
It is unknown to me whether AA is implementing this effective 1 April 2011 as per IATA (we will see if they modify the tariffs) or if they have any automation to support it (they need to know the MSC's baggage allowances and fees at check-in and presumably do all the calculations automagically). Any information from AA's presence on FlyerTalk would be welcomed.
As a reminder, IATA defines the world into 3 areas (IATA area 1/2/3), and each area has sub-areas.
IATA Area1
North America/South America/Hawaii etc.
“IATA Tariff sub-area” of “IATA Area1”
North America (USA, Canada and Mexico)
Caribbean Islands
Central America
South America (Brazil, Chile, Peru etc.)
IATA Area2
Europe/Middle East etc.
“IATA Tariff sub-area” of “IATA Area2”
Europe
Middle East
Africa
IATA Area3
Japan/Korea/Thai/Singapore/Philippines/India/Guam etc.
“IATA Tariff sub-area” of “IATA Area3”
Japan/Korea (Japan and Korea)
South East Asia (China, Singapore, Thai, Vietnam, Guam etc.)
South India (India etc.)
South East Pacific (Australia, New Zealand etc.)
Sources:
Specifically, currently AA's contracts don't specify any rules about this; the Conditions of Carriage and International General Rules AA1 imposed on you are vague (the latter reads "In addition to the charges or fees included as part of the purchased fare(s) on the ticket, passengers on codeshare flights operated by another carrier may also be subject to charges and fees imposed by the operating codeshare carrier"), and the DOT has not forced the airlines to provide any clarity on this subject.
IATA Resolution 302, "Baggage Provisions Selection Criteria", is supposed to apply to all tickets issued on or after 1 April 2011, and introduces the concept of the "Most Significant Carrier" (MSC) of the journey, indicating that generally the allowances and fees of the MSC apply to the entire journey (i.e. entire ticket, even if roundtrip).
The resolution is as follows:
unless otherwise agreed the following baggage provisions selection process should apply for interline journeys
1) Baggage provisions are defined as free baggage allowance rules and baggage charges
2) For the purposes of baggage provisions selection, the following 4 step process should
apply for interline journeys:
... a) Step 1: If the published baggage provisions among all participating carriers are the same; these provisions will apply.
... b) Step 2: Where the one or more published baggage provisions differ between participating carriers, apply any common provisions are where provisions differ the published baggage provisions of the Most Significant Carrier (MSC). (In case of code share flights this will be the Operating Carrier, unless that carrier publishes a rule stipulating that it will be the Marketing Carrier).
... c) Step 3: If the MSC does not publish baggage provisions for the journey concerned apply the published baggage provisions of the carrier accepting the baggage at check-in.
... d) Step 4: If the carrier accepting the baggage at check-in does not publish baggage provisions for the interline journey concerned apply the published baggage provisions of each operating airline sector-by-sector.
MOST SIGNIFICAN CARRIER (MSC)
3) the MSC is.
... a) For travel between two or more IATA areas, the carrier performing carriage on the first sector that crosses from one area to another.
Esception: IATA area 123 only, the carrier providing carriage on the first sector that crosses between IATA area 1 and IATA area 2.
... b) For travel between IATA Tariff sub-areas, the carrier performing carriage on the first sector that crosses from one sub-area to another.
... c) For travel within a IATA Tariff sub-areas, the carrier performing carriage on the first international sector.
1) Baggage provisions are defined as free baggage allowance rules and baggage charges
2) For the purposes of baggage provisions selection, the following 4 step process should
apply for interline journeys:
... a) Step 1: If the published baggage provisions among all participating carriers are the same; these provisions will apply.
... b) Step 2: Where the one or more published baggage provisions differ between participating carriers, apply any common provisions are where provisions differ the published baggage provisions of the Most Significant Carrier (MSC). (In case of code share flights this will be the Operating Carrier, unless that carrier publishes a rule stipulating that it will be the Marketing Carrier).
... c) Step 3: If the MSC does not publish baggage provisions for the journey concerned apply the published baggage provisions of the carrier accepting the baggage at check-in.
... d) Step 4: If the carrier accepting the baggage at check-in does not publish baggage provisions for the interline journey concerned apply the published baggage provisions of each operating airline sector-by-sector.
MOST SIGNIFICAN CARRIER (MSC)
3) the MSC is.
... a) For travel between two or more IATA areas, the carrier performing carriage on the first sector that crosses from one area to another.
Esception: IATA area 123 only, the carrier providing carriage on the first sector that crosses between IATA area 1 and IATA area 2.
... b) For travel between IATA Tariff sub-areas, the carrier performing carriage on the first sector that crosses from one sub-area to another.
... c) For travel within a IATA Tariff sub-areas, the carrier performing carriage on the first international sector.
As a reminder, IATA defines the world into 3 areas (IATA area 1/2/3), and each area has sub-areas.
IATA Area1
North America/South America/Hawaii etc.
“IATA Tariff sub-area” of “IATA Area1”
North America (USA, Canada and Mexico)
Caribbean Islands
Central America
South America (Brazil, Chile, Peru etc.)
IATA Area2
Europe/Middle East etc.
“IATA Tariff sub-area” of “IATA Area2”
Europe
Middle East
Africa
IATA Area3
Japan/Korea/Thai/Singapore/Philippines/India/Guam etc.
“IATA Tariff sub-area” of “IATA Area3”
Japan/Korea (Japan and Korea)
South East Asia (China, Singapore, Thai, Vietnam, Guam etc.)
South India (India etc.)
South East Pacific (Australia, New Zealand etc.)
Sources:
- Full text of resolution: http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketD...-OST-2008-0370
- Amadeus implementation notice (with updated implementation date of 01Apr11): https://extranets.us.amadeus.com/Sol...asp?cn_key=639
- CX implementation notice (implementation date of 01Apr11) with very useful examples: http://www.cxagentsusa.com/images/30...GE_RULES_1.pdf
Mar 30, 2011, 9:32 pm
#5
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12
Interesting..
Deleting old posts
Last edited by Redakai; Apr 14, 2012 at 1:35 am Reason: Deleting of old posts
Aug 22, 2011, 8:59 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Sabre is to release its implementation of resolution 302 (way late) to travel agencies on 31 August 2011.
Presumably AA's partition already has it or is getting it around the same time.
As a reminder, U.S. Department of Transportation rules, which apply for itineraries that include a U.S. origin, destination or furthest point, say that the baggage allowance applied at the beginning of the itinerary for the first baggage journey applies throughout the ticketed itinerary, regardless of stopover or subsequent baggage journeys (i.e. you get the same baggage allowance throughout your journey).
Presumably AA's partition already has it or is getting it around the same time.
As a reminder, U.S. Department of Transportation rules, which apply for itineraries that include a U.S. origin, destination or furthest point, say that the baggage allowance applied at the beginning of the itinerary for the first baggage journey applies throughout the ticketed itinerary, regardless of stopover or subsequent baggage journeys (i.e. you get the same baggage allowance throughout your journey).
Jan 20, 2012, 8:03 pm
#7
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: All over
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Is the MSC only on one PNR or multiple PNR's? Say I do del-hkg-nrt on CX then JL, then take AA from nrt to lax. Do they use AA's baggage allowance even though CX (first airline) only allows 66lbs out of del and AA allows more than that?
Jan 22, 2012, 10:20 pm
#8
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
AFIK a "journey" is a journey irrespective of whether it's all on one PNR, fare or ticket. However, automation that sets the bag allowance on the ticket coupons only sees the extent of the ticket. Whether you will find a check-in employee that is well-versed on reso 302 is another question.
Jan 25, 2012, 11:23 am
#9
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: All over
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Posts: 6,828
AFIK a "journey" is a journey irrespective of whether it's all on one PNR, fare or ticket. However, automation that sets the bag allowance on the ticket coupons only sees the extent of the ticket. Whether you will find a check-in employee that is well-versed on reso 302 is another question.
Feb 8, 2012, 2:28 pm
#10
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 274
Excess Baggage Charges - Help!
I'm really struggling with AA Baggage allowances and charges, there are so many variations and permutations now, I'm finding it incomprehensible.
First, I recently flew UIO>MAN>UIO. Before I flew I checked the website and as I understood it my free checked baggage allowance was 1 x 23kg, and I could take an extra bag for $30. I wanted to check the extra bag for the return journey (MAN>UIO) but the first leg (MAN>LHR) was a codeshare with BA, who insisted I had to pay their charges of £40 (approx $60).
I haven't taken it up with AA yet, as I guess I will have to do it here in Ecuador in Spanish, so I want to check with you guys what the charge should actually have been before I attempt it. (My Spanish is pretty bad!).
Second, I now need to book a flight from UIO>Tokyo. AA have convenient flights to NRT, but I cannot work out the baggage allowance. Would it be the more generous 2 x 23kg for to/from Japan, or the more restrictive 1 x 23kg to/from South America? If I want to take a 3rd bag, what would the cost be for that?
Is there a general assistance number I can call from overseas to ask about baggage allowances, or would I just need to call reservations?
Any help or advice will be most gratefully received!
First, I recently flew UIO>MAN>UIO. Before I flew I checked the website and as I understood it my free checked baggage allowance was 1 x 23kg, and I could take an extra bag for $30. I wanted to check the extra bag for the return journey (MAN>UIO) but the first leg (MAN>LHR) was a codeshare with BA, who insisted I had to pay their charges of £40 (approx $60).
I haven't taken it up with AA yet, as I guess I will have to do it here in Ecuador in Spanish, so I want to check with you guys what the charge should actually have been before I attempt it. (My Spanish is pretty bad!).
Second, I now need to book a flight from UIO>Tokyo. AA have convenient flights to NRT, but I cannot work out the baggage allowance. Would it be the more generous 2 x 23kg for to/from Japan, or the more restrictive 1 x 23kg to/from South America? If I want to take a 3rd bag, what would the cost be for that?
Is there a general assistance number I can call from overseas to ask about baggage allowances, or would I just need to call reservations?
Any help or advice will be most gratefully received!
Feb 11, 2012, 2:02 pm
#12
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Baggage allowance and charges are determined by the carrier you check in with - the carrier whose name is on the outside of the first plane you fly. This often results in different allowances and charges on the outbound and return portions of a round trip.
The airline you check in with should have their baggage allowance and charges on their website.
The airline you check in with should have their baggage allowance and charges on their website.
Last edited by gemac; Feb 11, 2012 at 2:07 pm
Feb 11, 2012, 2:10 pm
#13
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
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AA's baggage regulations are here. They detail how much baggage you can check in on various flights, with the variances for different countries (e.g. Brazil), and the exceptions that apply to some also can be accessed here.
In BA's case at MAN, they erred, as I understand it, because they should be charging in accordance with the IATA Resolution 302 (the rules applicable are those of the Most Significant Carrier, in this case AA,) and not their own interpretation as if you were flying BA alone. (And USDOT does not apply because destination, origin or furthest point were not in the USA.)
"BA me cobró £40 por mi exceso de equipaje, aunque deberían haber cobrado en acuerdo con la resolución 302 de la IATA, la tarifa efectiva de American Airlines, la aerolínea mas significativa en mi viaje, resultando en un cobro permitido de $30." (Assuming you purchased your ticket between August 30, 2011, and February 7, 2012; if prior to that, you were entitled two bags at no extra charge if they were within weight limits.)
Please see this thread for more complete information on IATA Resolution 302:
New interline baggage fee rules (IATA Reso 302): AA ontime adoption?
For South America to / from Japan, I'd reference:
There are folks who better understand these baggage regs than I do - check the thread referred to for further details.
(Quoted portions from aa.com Baggage page.)
SOUTH AMERICA (EXCEPT BRAZIL) TO/THROUGH/FROM EUROPE OR INDIA
For tickets purchased on or after February 8, 2012
$60 for the second checked bag. Exceptions may apply.
For tickets purchased between August 30, 2011, and February 7, 2012
$30 for the second checked bag. Exceptions may apply.
For tickets purchased before August 30, 2011:
Two bags checked - No charge
Please contact Reservations to determine charges for additional bags.
For tickets purchased on or after February 8, 2012
$60 for the second checked bag. Exceptions may apply.
For tickets purchased between August 30, 2011, and February 7, 2012
$30 for the second checked bag. Exceptions may apply.
For tickets purchased before August 30, 2011:
Two bags checked - No charge
Please contact Reservations to determine charges for additional bags.
"BA me cobró £40 por mi exceso de equipaje, aunque deberían haber cobrado en acuerdo con la resolución 302 de la IATA, la tarifa efectiva de American Airlines, la aerolínea mas significativa en mi viaje, resultando en un cobro permitido de $30." (Assuming you purchased your ticket between August 30, 2011, and February 7, 2012; if prior to that, you were entitled two bags at no extra charge if they were within weight limits.)
Please see this thread for more complete information on IATA Resolution 302:
New interline baggage fee rules (IATA Reso 302): AA ontime adoption?
For South America to / from Japan, I'd reference:
TRAVEL TO/THROUGH/FROM JAPAN OR CHINA
Number of Bags Allowed*
One personal item: No charge
One bag carry-on: No charge
Two bags checked. No charge
Size and Weight Per Bag Allowed*
45 in/115 cm (carry-on)
62 in/158 cm (checked)
50 lbs./23 kgs (checked)
Number of Bags Allowed*
One personal item: No charge
One bag carry-on: No charge
Two bags checked. No charge
Size and Weight Per Bag Allowed*
45 in/115 cm (carry-on)
62 in/158 cm (checked)
50 lbs./23 kgs (checked)
(Quoted portions from aa.com Baggage page.)
Last edited by JDiver; Feb 11, 2012 at 2:14 pm Reason: quote]
Feb 11, 2012, 2:39 pm
#14
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
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There's an interesting ATPCO (Airline Tariff Publishing Company) PowerPoint that ties in, for those interested: PDF file link.
I am seriously amazed at how little discussion has ensued on FlyerTalk, because this has significant implications for those of us checking luggage in many instances, and we will undoubtedly have those among us who encounter unfriendly and uninformed TAs.
I am seriously amazed at how little discussion has ensued on FlyerTalk, because this has significant implications for those of us checking luggage in many instances, and we will undoubtedly have those among us who encounter unfriendly and uninformed TAs.
Feb 11, 2012, 2:46 pm
#15
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: STL
Programs: AA 2MM, AS MVP Gold, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 12,966
There's an interesting ATPCO (Airline Tariff Publishing Company) PowerPoint that ties in, for those interested: PDF file link.
I am seriously amazed at how little discussion has ensued on FlyerTalk, because this has significant implications for those of us checking luggage in many instances, and we will undoubtedly have those among us who encounter unfriendly and uninformed TAs.
I am seriously amazed at how little discussion has ensued on FlyerTalk, because this has significant implications for those of us checking luggage in many instances, and we will undoubtedly have those among us who encounter unfriendly and uninformed TAs.