ARCHIVE: Baggage / luggage limits, interline, rules etc. (consolidated)
Feb 11, 12, 4:19 pm
#16
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 274
Thanks for the info (with special thanks for the translation!)
So to clarify... I should have been charged the AA rate ($30) and not the BA rate. (Ticket was bought in Jan 2012)
For the UIO>NRT the entire flight will be with AA (as far as I can see, unless there is a codeshare in there somewhere that I haven't spotted). Do they have a standard policy to accept the higher allowance when they have conflicting allowances posted? Or will I have to argue the case?
So to clarify... I should have been charged the AA rate ($30) and not the BA rate. (Ticket was bought in Jan 2012)
For the UIO>NRT the entire flight will be with AA (as far as I can see, unless there is a codeshare in there somewhere that I haven't spotted). Do they have a standard policy to accept the higher allowance when they have conflicting allowances posted? Or will I have to argue the case?
Feb 11, 12, 5:31 pm
#17
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Well, I quoted AA's own policy, so you may want to jot it down, or to be able to refer them (but you may not have to).
The Exceptions policy is relevant, though they may try for the "South American fees:
The Exceptions policy is relevant, though they may try for the "South American fees:
Code:
The following passengers will be allowed a 1st and/or 2nd checked bag at no additional charge provided it falls within the size and weight limitations. These free checked bag allowances apply on flights operated by American Airlines, American Eagle, and AmericanConnection. On codeshare flights operated by other carriers, the baggage allowance and charges of the operating carrier apply. For customers traveling to or from destinations in Brazil and Asia (except India) Customers traveling between South America and the U.S., Puerto Rico, the U.S. Virgin Islands, Canada, Europe and India if the ticket was purchased before August 30, 2011 Customers traveling between Canada and Europe or India as well as customers traveling from Canada through Europe or India to another destination if the ticket was purchased before August 30, 2011 Customers who purchase full-fare tickets in Economy Class Customers who purchase Business or First Class tickets Active U.S. Military personnel traveling on orders or personal travel Active U.S. Military dependents traveling on orders American Airlines AAdvantage Executive Platinum, AAdvantage Platinum or AAdvantage Gold members Alaska Airlines MVP Gold 75K, MVP Gold and MVP members oneworld Alliance Emerald, Sapphire or Ruby members Customers flying on the same reservation as an American Airlines AAdvantage Executive Platinum, AAdvantage Platinum or AAdvantage Gold member or oneworld Alliance Emerald, Sapphire or Ruby member regardless of frequent flier status or fare type (not applicable to group bookings) First and Business Class MileSAAver Awards First, Business and Economy Class AAnytime Awards First and Business Class upgrades confirmed prior to check in
Thanks for the info (with special thanks for the translation!)
So to clarify... I should have been charged the AA rate ($30) and not the BA rate. (Ticket was bought in Jan 2012)
For the UIO>NRT the entire flight will be with AA (as far as I can see, unless there is a codeshare in there somewhere that I haven't spotted). Do they have a standard policy to accept the higher allowance when they have conflicting allowances posted? Or will I have to argue the case?
So to clarify... I should have been charged the AA rate ($30) and not the BA rate. (Ticket was bought in Jan 2012)
For the UIO>NRT the entire flight will be with AA (as far as I can see, unless there is a codeshare in there somewhere that I haven't spotted). Do they have a standard policy to accept the higher allowance when they have conflicting allowances posted? Or will I have to argue the case?
Last edited by JDiver; Feb 11, 12 at 10:56 pm Reason: add CODE window
Feb 11, 12, 5:40 pm
#18
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
This thread attracted very little discussion probably because (a) it's not a rant and (b) it's not speculative. It's more of a wiki-item (hmmm...am not sure if I've posted it there yet), as much as important as it it.
On a good news front, as many of you know I'm a fan of efficient markets, who work only if all participants have low-cost access to all information, and interline bag charges have been a mess. So in many of my posts I suggested the following:
You can (and should) let the DOT know about this confusion and how it's affecting you at http://airconsumer.ost.dot.gov/escomplaint/es.cfm; they've started listening to voters again, and can't force the airlines to fix the issue until they know about it from fliers.
- Airlines must publish any changes to their baggage policy on their Web sites, and these notices must stay posted for three months after the revision
- Airlines and travel agents must specify all baggage and special item charges at the time of the passenger fare quote
- Airlines and travel agents must also specify at the time of ticketing the carry-on allowance and/or charges, as well as the charge for the first and second checked bag
- Airlines must apply the baggage rules of the first airline selected as the Most Significant Carrier (MSC) throughout a passengers entire journey and the amount that passengers pay for checked bags and other items, such as a pet in hold, must not vary during their trip
This ruling, after a delay, became effective on 24 January 2012. Sabre, which hosts AA, implemented it on that date, and now all tickets issued by Sabre (and therefore presumably AA) to/from/within the USA have baggage allowance information, calculated using the methods outlined in my first post, embedded in each coupon of the eticket. So for any ticket issued on or after 24 January 2012, the check-in person will know the baggage allowance that applies to it by simply looking at the ticket itself.
I assumed that AA implemented an easy way to see bag allowance for purchased trips in AA.com, but by looking at some of my itineraries ticketed by AA after 24 January 2012 I don't see baggage information anywhere.
Yet baggage information is available on Sabre's VirtuallyThere for etickets issued on other itineraries by an agency.
Feb 11, 12, 5:44 pm
#19
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Feb 11, 12, 5:48 pm
#20
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That is incorrect: for IATA carriers, i.e. practically all network carriers, IATA resolution 302 applies, and who checks you in is irrelevant to the rule. See this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...-adoption.html
Feb 11, 12, 5:58 pm
#21
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Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
Second, I now need to book a flight from UIO>Tokyo. AA have convenient flights to NRT, but I cannot work out the baggage allowance. Would it be the more generous 2 x 23kg for to/from Japan, or the more restrictive 1 x 23kg to/from South America? If I want to take a 3rd bag, what would the cost be for that?
AA's baggage regulations are here
Interesting case, as AA regs don't contemplate through travel from South America to Japan.
I've run this scenario for pricing and bag allowance in Sabre and it simply doesn't give you a baggage allowance (consistent with the lack of a published allowance). Hopefully an AA lurker will alert the appropriate department, since AA does file UIO-TYO fares, and they will fix this bu publishing the appropriate allowance.
Feb 11, 12, 6:00 pm
#22
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...
For the UIO>NRT the entire flight will be with AA (as far as I can see, unless there is a codeshare in there somewhere that I haven't spotted). Do they have a standard policy to accept the higher allowance when they have conflicting allowances posted? Or will I have to argue the case?
For the UIO>NRT the entire flight will be with AA (as far as I can see, unless there is a codeshare in there somewhere that I haven't spotted). Do they have a standard policy to accept the higher allowance when they have conflicting allowances posted? Or will I have to argue the case?
All other itineraries
Vary by destination. Contact Reservations for charges or seasonal restrictions.
Vary by destination. Contact Reservations for charges or seasonal restrictions.
IATA code - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
All travel is in TC3 (Asia & Oceania).
Your travel was from the SOA conference transferring in the NOA sub-area onward from TC1 to TC2 to the EUR sub-area and vv.
Since the TC crossing each way is on AA, their allowance applies for each one-way journey.
Feb 11, 12, 7:35 pm
#23
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 4,861
Major thread on the newish U.S. Department of Transportation baggage regulation here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...hts-aa-9w.html
The regulation reads as follows:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...hts-aa-9w.html
The regulation reads as follows:
14 C.F.R. sec. 399.87
For passengers whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary throughout his or her entire itinerary. In the case of code-share flights that form part of an itinerary whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees of the marketing carrier throughout the itinerary to the extent that they differ from those of any operating carrier.
For passengers whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary throughout his or her entire itinerary. In the case of code-share flights that form part of an itinerary whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees of the marketing carrier throughout the itinerary to the extent that they differ from those of any operating carrier.
Last edited by Austinrunner; Feb 11, 12 at 7:41 pm
Feb 11, 12, 8:18 pm
#24
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
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This is great information, thank you for posting all this. Here is my situation and I would like the experts to sound check me here.
ticket issued by AA.
AUS-DFW-LON//VIE-FRA-DFW-AUS, all operated by AA, except for VIE-FRA, which was operated by HG (NIKI).
As you would expect I was dinged 100 EUROS for excess luggage in VIE by HG. HG told me that they are not part of OW yet, so their own rules apply.
AA told me that they cannot dictate other airlines' baggage rules and regulations, so I am on my own.
If I understand this Resolution correctly, my AA baggage allowance should have applied in this case on my HG segment, correct?
ticket issued by AA.
AUS-DFW-LON//VIE-FRA-DFW-AUS, all operated by AA, except for VIE-FRA, which was operated by HG (NIKI).
As you would expect I was dinged 100 EUROS for excess luggage in VIE by HG. HG told me that they are not part of OW yet, so their own rules apply.
AA told me that they cannot dictate other airlines' baggage rules and regulations, so I am on my own.
If I understand this Resolution correctly, my AA baggage allowance should have applied in this case on my HG segment, correct?
Feb 11, 12, 8:21 pm
#25
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Feb 11, 12, 8:28 pm
#26
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
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Posts: 5,878
Wow.. that never occurred to me that a subsidiary of a large European airline that is about to join OW is not a member of IATA...
I thought only regional Mongolian airlines with 2 propeller planes are not IATA members...
I thought only regional Mongolian airlines with 2 propeller planes are not IATA members...
Feb 11, 12, 8:37 pm
#27
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
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So if my carrier in question (HG) Niki is not an IATA member, shouldn't then the Federal law kick in?
14 C.F.R. sec. 399.87
399.87 Baggage allowances and fees.
For passengers whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary throughout his or her entire itinerary. In the case of code-share flights that form part of an itinerary whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees of the marketing carrier throughout the itinerary to the extent that they differ from those of any operating carrier.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...tart=1;size=25
14 C.F.R. sec. 399.87
399.87 Baggage allowances and fees.
For passengers whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary throughout his or her entire itinerary. In the case of code-share flights that form part of an itinerary whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees of the marketing carrier throughout the itinerary to the extent that they differ from those of any operating carrier.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...tart=1;size=25
Feb 11, 12, 9:24 pm
#28
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 274
Thanks again for all the help. I have emailed them about the Tokyo flight and will go the office here next week about the overcharge.
It's also good to know that it wasn't just me being dopey, I thought the info must be there somewhere and I just wasn't seeing it.
It's also good to know that it wasn't just me being dopey, I thought the info must be there somewhere and I just wasn't seeing it.
Feb 11, 12, 10:09 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 1999
Posts: 12,097
So if my carrier in question (HG) Niki is not an IATA member, shouldn't then the Federal law kick in?
14 C.F.R. sec. 399.87
399.87 Baggage allowances and fees.
For passengers whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary throughout his or her entire itinerary.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...tart=1;size=25
14 C.F.R. sec. 399.87
399.87 Baggage allowances and fees.
For passengers whose ultimate ticketed origin or destination is a U.S. point, U.S. and foreign carriers must apply the baggage allowances and fees that apply at the beginning of a passenger's itinerary throughout his or her entire itinerary.
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...tart=1;size=25
While the intent is for the rule to be a broad as possible, it is unenforceable in this case (try taking HG to small claims court and you will see), and is the exact equivalent of, for example, the South African government dictating JetBlue's baggage policies on interline tickets sold by SA (SA interlines with B6).
Incidentally, AB has bought the controlling 50.1% stake of HG from Niki Lauda just a few months ago, so I have a feeling that things will change in due time.
Feb 11, 12, 10:59 pm
#30
Moderator: American AAdvantage
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Because of the similarity of information, the threads have been merged for membership ease of use. /Moderator
