salut0

Reading the latest analysis about the causes of the CO 3407 (Colgan) crash is very distressing.

I will preface my post by saying I have no desire to cast aspersions on anyone, but I'm just interested in facts.

To what extent (if any) does Eagle share any of these issues that Colgan seems to have with low-paid, overworked, under-experienced, commuting pilots?

My assumption has been that Eagle is much better than Colgan and the other subcontracted regional operators, but does anyone have experiences/knowledge to the contrary?

FWAAA

There is no comparison between Colgan and Eagle.

Eagle has been run as a part 121 operation for more than a decade; it is essentially American Airlines with smaller airplanes and slightly younger employees. While Eagle's starting pay is low, all flight crews at Eagle have several years of experience, and thus make substantially more money than the starting pay.

videomaker

I'd pick Eagle over Colgan any day.

A friend of mine who is a GA for CO tells horror stories about Colgan--not necessarily safety issues, but their operations. I've flown some of Colgan's SAABs, but only when there was no other choice.

InPlaneSight

I would question that they have several years of experience. To be considered for a First Officer position with American Eagle, applicants must meet the following minimum requirements: Commercial Pilot Certification with Multi-Engine and Instrument ratings, total fixed wing time to exceed 500 hours, multi-engine fixed wing time in excess of 100 hours and recent flying experience. Additionally, candidates must possess a current FAA First Class Medical Certificate, IFR currency and an FCC license and be at least 21 years old to attend the six and one-half weeks safety-based training!

The First Officer will be flying the airplane 50% of the time and it may be the time you are on board.

Effective January 1st, 2009 the pay rates for American Eagle First Officers are:

Years.....Turboprop......Turbojet
1............$24.71............$24.71
2............$26.55............$33.38
3............$29.59............$36.25
4............$32.63............$38.04
5............$34.13............$39.01
6............$35.66............$39.66
7............$36.11............$40.16
8............$36.69............$40.84

greggwiggins

I think there's also a difference between the 40 years when the Colgan family (especially founder Chuck) ran the airline and what it became after the airline was sold to Pinnacle in 2007.

formeraa

While I feel American Eagle is a much better-run carrier than Colgan Air, it must be pointed out that Eagle had its growing pains in the early 90's with two tragic accidents. One was the icing on the ATR 72, which brought the spotlight on icing issues on ATR's in the US.

The second was a smaller aircraft (SAAB?) flown by a pilot who had been fired from a couple other carriers (however, due to privacy laws, the other carriers could not share this info with American Eagle).

That being said, AMR took these two accidents very seriously and made significant changes to Eagle's operations going forward.

One more thing is that commuting is a way of life in the airline industry (not just the regional carriers). I didn't actually find it unusual that someone would be commuting across the country. Major airline employees do it all the time -- particularly the pilots.

GreatChecko

Eagle and Colgan are quite different. Eagle, due to flow backs and general stagnation, has much more experienced crews with upgrade times for FO's approaching 8-10 years. They also have a much better contract in terms of pay and general work rules. That doesn't mean that there aren't any abuses of rest and duty rules or "bad pilots" amongst their ranks. As much as we like to think otherwise, those are two humans up front.

I have less qualms about flying on a plane, no matter who is in control, than I do driving my car to the airport. We are much more likely to die in a car than in an airplane.

AE hasn't hired at that level for quite a while.

Checko

hillrider

Sometimes just looking at the fatigue in FAs eyes I am a bit scared of what's in the cockpit.

Just like Colgan, apparently AA does not require the personnel that's there for our safety to live in the same metro area that they work in, and some keep some crazy schedules. I'd feel much, much safer knowing that the pilots started their workday fresh, not groggy from some crazy multi-thousand-mile "commute" in Y or on some cargo plane. I hope that the FAA will end this practice.

Wexflyer

+N, where N tends to infinity......

NetSurfer69

I agree that Eagle is a far better operated airline than Colgan, etc. AE is fully owned by AMR. American also has a relationship with Chautauqua Airlines (Republic Airways) which operates flights under the AmericanConnection moniker. I've flown a few of these in the Midwest.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chautauqua_Airlines

Interestingly, Republic has similar relationships with most of the other airlines - I've flown their flights on several USAir Express segments as well. They operate Embraer's, which have a pretty decent safety record and I've had fairly decent experiences with them.

Colgan appears to be a bottom-feeder from I've read in the press.

AAir_head

That's the minimum to apply and be considered...there's no shortage of aspiring professional pilots gunning for these jobs, and many of them far exceed the minimum application threshold.

I've never had any qualms about flying AE from a safety standpoint...I just don't like small airplanes as a matter of comfort, and avoid them whenever possible.

cheers!

mvoight

The info you stated was the mininum, as noted in another post, and this is for First Officer. I thought I recall seeing a news report about the Colgan crash and the Captain having 625 hours. The First Officer stated she had never seen icing and had never de-iced. Seriously though, no proper training on how to handle a stall warning? Apparently pulled up, which is not a smart way to INCREASE speed to avoid stalling. I know this and I am not even a licensed pilot... nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

3Cforme

That's not a commuter airline thing - it happens all over the majors, too. I have run into AA mainline FAs who fly out of Chicago but live on the west coast (and one not even an AA destination, nor one served n/s by any carrier from ORD).

freeupgrade

I am just shocked re: Colgan crash.

1. To find out that the Captain of 3407 never received adequate training re: stalling emergency is just apalling - its just unimaginable.

2. I am incensed to discover that the Captain and FO were having chit-chat conversation that had absolutely nothing to do with the flight once the plane was below 10K feet - this FAA rule exists for a reason.

3. The FO admits during the flight she has never even deiced a plane (although fwiw, cnn.com is saying that the NTSB is saying the ice was a "minimal" factor at best).

As far as commuting and the fatigue factor, I really don't think (given # 1 , # 2 and # 3 above) that this was a huge factor.

May all who were on 3407 rest in peace, and may their families take some comfort in knowing they are in a better place.

ContinentalFan

I see no evidence to warrant any kind of comparison between Colgan and American Eagle. Colgan seems to have a dysfunctional culture where training is, or at least was, in adequate. The carrier didn't due the necessary background check on a pilot that appears to be less than competent. I haven't seen evidence that AE shares similar vices.