AA guts aadvantage program - how do we band together?
Aug 8, 2008, 1:20 pm
#34
Join Date: Jul 2005
Programs: AA: ExPlat, Virgin: Silver, Midwest, US Airways: Gold, NW, Lufthansa: Freq Trav
Posts: 276
My position also. Many flyers have not yet come to terms with the gravity of the situation with the US airlines.
The air transportation system that we have come to see as our right doesn't work at these fuel prices. We either need to pay much more or expenses need to be cut much more.
The air transportation system that we have come to see as our right doesn't work at these fuel prices. We either need to pay much more or expenses need to be cut much more.
Aug 8, 2008, 1:45 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW/DAL
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, AS MVPG, HH Diamond, NCL Platinum Plus, MSC Diamond
Posts: 21,422
The incremental cost of another economy passenger is below the price they are going to sell it for. If it cost more than $200 to transport an additional passenger, they wouldn't sell it for under $200.
Raising ticket prices instead of adding fees for Aawards, will send people to carriers advertising lower prices. Even a fare that is $1 higher could cause a carrier to not show up on the first page of a fare search.
The posted fare is a decidiing factor for many people
Last edited by mvoight; Aug 8, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Aug 8, 2008, 1:50 pm
#36
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NYC/PSP
Programs: AA EXP, A3 Gold
Posts: 4,106
I think we haven't seen the worst of it yet. This time next year we may really be experiencing the gutted version.
Aug 8, 2008, 2:03 pm
#37
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mostly AUS or rural England
Programs: BAEC redundant Bronze, AAdvantage Lifetime PLT, CO, WN, B6
Posts: 6,526
I don't for a minute believe that's true - it isn't true in any other market in the world so why should it be true for air travel?
If, however, you are correct, then why not stop all mileage benefits from the lowest cost fares? That would allow AA to be a dollar lower than the other legacies, and apparently would not lose any business because according to this theory those travellers have zero loyalty anyway.
Aug 8, 2008, 2:24 pm
#38
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SAT
Programs: AA EXP BA Gold, TK Gold, Hyatt Globalist, Hilton Diamond, AS 100K, QR PLT, SAS Gold, IHG Spire, AMR
Posts: 5,898
Believe what you chose to, but studies unfortunately verify this. People see a low fare and think it is a good deal. Trust me it is true.. sad, but true
Aug 8, 2008, 2:46 pm
#39
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2006
Programs: AAdvantage PP
Posts: 13,913
Like other posters have indicated, the airlines maybe should (and may well likely go in this direction) award miles based upon fare class. Full fares would receive a premium while advance purchase web based fares would receive less than mile for mile. Or based upon the dollar amount spent rather than the miles flown per se.
Now that of course would be bad news for me and my esteemed FT collegue brp as we both travel mostly for leisure and purchase advance purchase fares. Good price, we go, not good price, we go somewhere else or maybe just stay at home. And while I can't speak for brp, yes I do MRs to nowhere based upon information from this board or seeing a very good fare on aa.com or other source.
But one should remember two things. First, empty seats bear no revenue and flying a 50% full plane in this environment really hurts the bottom line. So if AA sells me a seat that is below its cost but would otherwise go empty they still win. Second, AA gets my full amount weeks in advance and has the advantage of that cash flow. If advance bookings fall off in the fall because leisure travel plummets, then you will then see a real liquidity problem arising at all carriers.
Now that of course would be bad news for me and my esteemed FT collegue brp as we both travel mostly for leisure and purchase advance purchase fares. Good price, we go, not good price, we go somewhere else or maybe just stay at home. And while I can't speak for brp, yes I do MRs to nowhere based upon information from this board or seeing a very good fare on aa.com or other source.
But one should remember two things. First, empty seats bear no revenue and flying a 50% full plane in this environment really hurts the bottom line. So if AA sells me a seat that is below its cost but would otherwise go empty they still win. Second, AA gets my full amount weeks in advance and has the advantage of that cash flow. If advance bookings fall off in the fall because leisure travel plummets, then you will then see a real liquidity problem arising at all carriers.
Aug 8, 2008, 5:13 pm
#40
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: MSY (finally); previously NYC, BOS, AUH
Programs: AA EXP, 6MM; BA GLD
Posts: 17,248
Deleted.
Last edited by Blumie; Aug 8, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Aug 8, 2008, 5:15 pm
#41
Moderator: American AAdvantage
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 62,948
OK, speculative seems to fit a part of FlyerTalk - but politics, off topic posts and ad hominem do not.
/Moderator
/Moderator
Aug 8, 2008, 5:27 pm
#42
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: AA - EXP 1.5 Million Miles, SPG Gold, hertz 5 star
Posts: 498
I will take your point on the slug line. Perhaps "Gutting" is too strong.
Erosion would be a better adjustment.
I know I share the views of many that while AA is still the best program out there, the erosion we have already experienced has likely not come to an end.
I think we can also agree that these types of changes tend to be permanent, even when airlines return to profitability. Did we see pillows and meals come back when profits returned? Did we see give backs to the represented employees and cuts in executive bonuses to reward the FA's and pilots who've been suffering through cuts for years? no.
<redacted> While we may disagree on many issues, I believe strongly in the power of FT and the support it gives us all. My flying life has been aided by the minds of those who's perspectives make flying more interesting and yes, more fun.
Yes, my profession may involve journalism, but my postings here are my own opinions and not my professional life which involve laborious fact checking, reporting multiple sourcing and sharing numerous perspectives in an impartial way. This is me, a consumer who is concerned that the value of my hard earned miles are being eroded. I'm not alone.... numerous friends who are AA lovers like me were quite upset about the new changes.
...
I would welcome a poll if the Mod believes one would be productive. I would be interested in it.
...
Cheers.
Erosion would be a better adjustment.
I know I share the views of many that while AA is still the best program out there, the erosion we have already experienced has likely not come to an end.
I think we can also agree that these types of changes tend to be permanent, even when airlines return to profitability. Did we see pillows and meals come back when profits returned? Did we see give backs to the represented employees and cuts in executive bonuses to reward the FA's and pilots who've been suffering through cuts for years? no.
<redacted> While we may disagree on many issues, I believe strongly in the power of FT and the support it gives us all. My flying life has been aided by the minds of those who's perspectives make flying more interesting and yes, more fun.
Yes, my profession may involve journalism, but my postings here are my own opinions and not my professional life which involve laborious fact checking, reporting multiple sourcing and sharing numerous perspectives in an impartial way. This is me, a consumer who is concerned that the value of my hard earned miles are being eroded. I'm not alone.... numerous friends who are AA lovers like me were quite upset about the new changes.
...
I would welcome a poll if the Mod believes one would be productive. I would be interested in it.
...
Cheers.
Last edited by JDiver; Aug 8, 2008 at 6:24 pm Reason: redacted off topic
Aug 8, 2008, 5:38 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: MSY (finally); previously NYC, BOS, AUH
Programs: AA EXP, 6MM; BA GLD
Posts: 17,248
Aug 8, 2008, 5:39 pm
#44
Join Date: Oct 2006
Programs: AA EXP+2MM & WN CP
Posts: 197
[QUOTE=journalist212;10173579]I will take your point on the slug line. Perhaps "Gutting" is too strong.
Erosion would be a better adjustment.
I know I share the views of many that while AA is still the best program out there, the erosion we have already experienced has likely not come to an end.
I think we can also agree that these types of changes tend to be permanent, even when airlines return to profitability. Did we see pillows and meals come back when profits returned? Did we see give backs to the represented employees and cuts in executive bonuses to reward the FA's and pilots who've been suffering through cuts for years? no.
<snip>
Erosion would be a better adjustment.
I know I share the views of many that while AA is still the best program out there, the erosion we have already experienced has likely not come to an end.
I think we can also agree that these types of changes tend to be permanent, even when airlines return to profitability. Did we see pillows and meals come back when profits returned? Did we see give backs to the represented employees and cuts in executive bonuses to reward the FA's and pilots who've been suffering through cuts for years? no.
<snip>
Last edited by JDiver; Aug 9, 2008 at 3:16 pm Reason: deleted redactions form original post - and in error reply
Aug 8, 2008, 5:45 pm
#45
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,630
With all of the recent mileage increases for reward redemption, inventory cuts, and outrageous co-pays it is time we all banded together as a community.
I've protested these "enhancements" to AA, citibank, and my travel agencies. Given the power of the FT community, what is the best way for those who share my concern to protest as an FT group?
This is a critical juncture. If we don't raise it now, these increases will continue. I doubt AA will ever reverse course down the road even if they do overcome their financial challenges.
is there a petition that could be generated?
I've protested these "enhancements" to AA, citibank, and my travel agencies. Given the power of the FT community, what is the best way for those who share my concern to protest as an FT group?
This is a critical juncture. If we don't raise it now, these increases will continue. I doubt AA will ever reverse course down the road even if they do overcome their financial challenges.
is there a petition that could be generated?
Seems like the more we protest/complain the more that we get nailed.
All Arlines are rushing to see what they can do to cut service, increase fares, increase fees, charge for things, reduce meals, increase mileage for redemtion, reduce mileage, and bonus for flight, reduce non executive staff and I am sure FT' s can add to the list.
We are fighting a loosing battle. They do NOT care.