What do you think of the proposed AA alliance with CO?

 
Old Apr 28, 2008, 3:01 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by bspencerco
CO doesn't fly to SYD
But they will when the 787 comes online...
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Old Apr 28, 2008, 3:54 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by JohnFortWorth
I think it would be a very smart move by AA and CO management that would help both carriers. Yesterday, CO announced that it wouldn't consider a merger with United for now. I assume that the AA alliance proposal helped CO reach the decision that it could make it on its own without a merger. This keeps a big UA hub out of Houston and Newark.

As an AA customer, I'd like to be able to fly CO and rack up EQM's and mileage. I was Platinum Elite on CO for several years and their product is better than AA's in some significant ways: priority checked luggage for elites; free drinks and wireless in the President's Club; pre-departure beverages in first class; a much better business class offering on international and Hawaii routes; free snacks in coach during meal times; and cleaner airplanes. Maybe an alliance would force AA to match some of these things.
Keeping potential major United hubs out of Houston and New York City was obviously on the AA to do list, and it appears that they have succeeded.

As for the product; I would argue that NGBC (especially on the 777) is better than Business First. AA usually offers a pre-departure beverage service in First Class, and they have started a new program where they are cleaning the planes more often and fixing many more of the interior naggles at the B-Checks. I have seen the difference as AA's planes are looking better than they have in a long time.

Also AmericanEagle flights offer free drinks and snacks to Plat, Exec Plat, and Y/B/F/A/I (you know the drill) ticket holders. As to why they don't do this on the mainline I'll never know (especially since Southwest is doing it now minus the snack).

The Admirals Clubs also all have free WiFi now, but I would love for free beverages and snacks to make a return (would help incentivize joining the club).
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Old Apr 28, 2008, 5:59 pm
  #18  
 
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The AA product has indeed improved since their first near bankruptcy in 2003. Meals are returning in first on shorter flights. I still run across dirty airplanes, however, and IME pre-departure beverage service is generally not offered. I was on a flight a couple of days ago from DFW to Nashvillle and there was a substance that looked like vomit all over the back of the seat in front of me (I hope it wasn't). This was first class. They didn't pick up jackets pre-flight and didn't offer pre-departure beverage service -- not even water. This was probably a bad crew, but I never had anything happen like that on CO. Maybe I was just lucky.
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Old Apr 28, 2008, 7:32 pm
  #19  
 
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CO also flies to ATH from EWR so I welcome their entry into OW if it happens!
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Old Apr 29, 2008, 2:07 am
  #20  
 
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Article with more speculation

I am sure this has been posted somewhere - but - some more on this from a CO perspective via the Houston Chronicle: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5737731.html
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Old Apr 29, 2008, 2:47 am
  #21  
 
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I got it, I got it!

Ok - check this out - both AA and CO hate their regional subsidiaries (yes yes - let's not scuffle about the details about the exact corporate structures - since technically Chautauqua and Express Jet operate CO Express - and - yes - hate might be too big-a-word here - but bear with me...)

SO - what if we merged American Eagle and Continental Express - and turned them into feeder flights for BOTH CO and AA??? In other words - let's make it an ExpressEagle flight!?

If AMR is trying to sell off Eagle anyway - why not combine with CO Express carved out of CO - and then - by targeting (and interlining with) both AA and CO - you get excellent coverage across the US - with great cost savings and more frequencies!

Of course - the new "mini-airline" would have to be called one of four things:

(1) AmCo
(2) Americon
(3) ConAmerica
(4) EagleExpress

I personally would like to see ConAmerica take off sometime soon (and - no - I am not only referring to our current President - but he should be taking off sometime soon too)!!!

... now back to your regularly scheduled programming

Last edited by bb-miler; Apr 29, 2008 at 2:52 am
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Old Apr 29, 2008, 6:44 am
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by ndhapple
Also AmericanEagle flights offer free drinks and snacks to Plat, Exec Plat, and Y/B/F/A/I (you know the drill) ticket holders. As to why they don't do this on the mainline I'll never know (especially since Southwest is doing it now minus the snack).
Is this your experience? My experience, having to start out flying Eagle to get anywhere on American, is that the offers of free drinks and snacks are rare. Sometimes requests for same are granted, and sometimes they aren't. It's drink and snack roulette, and after what--eighteen months?--still a mystery to many AE FAs. Perks aren't perks if you have to agitate for them.

My experience on Co Express is more limited, but it appears to be a much more consistent product.
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Old Apr 29, 2008, 8:55 am
  #23  
 
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Talking Ha!

Originally Posted by cparekh
They could use the song Karma Chameleon.

... your colors are like my dream: red, gold, and green. Except it would be red, gold, and blue.

You could replace dream with shoe, glue, loo.
This is the sort of substantive benefit that I am seeking in an alliance!
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Old Apr 29, 2008, 7:55 pm
  #24  
 
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IF... and its a huge "if" the alliance would basically replace the relationship CO currently has with NW, this would be a HUGE win for AA elites. Heres how the CO / NW arrangement currently works, afaik:

1. Codeshares with full tier-by-tier equivalence of elite members on each others carriers. This means that CO elites are on even footing with NW elites and vice-versa for domestic upgrades - regardless of whose metal.

1a. Caveat: #1 could be very tricky to implement when one carrier has unlimited domestic upgrades (CO) and the other still plays the sticker game... DL and NW eventually replaced their "sticker" equivalent with policies which essentially match CO's. Also, CO elites would have a significant status-attaining advantage in that their top tier, Plat requires only 75k EQMs while we all know that EXP requires 100k EQMs or EQPs.

2. Full cross-compatibility of lounge memberships... for both domestic AND international routes (eg: a CO PC member currently can use the NW WC lounges in NRT, ICN, etc... regardless of whether the PC member is flying on NW metal or even any Skyteam metal). This would be a pretty huge gain for AC members, as CO lounges tend to have things most global elite travelers expect... like free internet (yes, i know that ACS are finally handing out t-mob cards) and more importantly, free booze. Who knows, maybe AA could finally buy a friggin clue and make drinks complementary in ACs (or at least beer & wine).

All in all, I think AA could become a much better carrier if it were to partner with CO and adopt some of CO's best practices. On the flipside, CO could piss off a LOT of its elites if it were to partner with AA and adopt some of AA's WORST practices.

IMHO, the AS model is the WORST possible scenario. AS strikes me as an airline wh*re who will partner with anybody they can (except UA) in order to "stick it to" UA.
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Old Apr 29, 2008, 8:48 pm
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by ctownflyer
But they will when the 787 comes online...
Why? They could do it now from the mainland with the 772ER right now if they wanted to...
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Old Apr 29, 2008, 8:59 pm
  #26  
 
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Going another step, were there to be a merger, doesn't AA/CO make a lot of sense from a fleet-compatibility perspective, much more than the once-proposed AA/NW merger? Or do CO's aircraft employ different engine types from AA's?
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Old Apr 29, 2008, 10:49 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by JumboD
Going another step, were there to be a merger, doesn't AA/CO make a lot of sense from a fleet-compatibility perspective, much more than the once-proposed AA/NW merger? Or do CO's aircraft employ different engine types from AA's?
From what I saw on their respective websites, they pretty much use the same engines.
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Old Apr 30, 2008, 9:17 am
  #28  
 
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Originally Posted by nd_eric_77
IF... and its a huge "if" the alliance would basically replace the relationship CO currently has with NW, this would be a HUGE win for AA elites. Heres how the CO / NW arrangement currently works, afaik:

1. Codeshares with full tier-by-tier equivalence of elite members on each others carriers. This means that CO elites are on even footing with NW elites and vice-versa for domestic upgrades - regardless of whose metal.

1a. Caveat: #1 could be very tricky to implement when one carrier has unlimited domestic upgrades (CO) and the other still plays the sticker game... DL and NW eventually replaced their "sticker" equivalent with policies which essentially match CO's. Also, CO elites would have a significant status-attaining advantage in that their top tier, Plat requires only 75k EQMs while we all know that EXP requires 100k EQMs or EQPs.

2. Full cross-compatibility of lounge memberships... for both domestic AND international routes (eg: a CO PC member currently can use the NW WC lounges in NRT, ICN, etc... regardless of whether the PC member is flying on NW metal or even any Skyteam metal). This would be a pretty huge gain for AC members, as CO lounges tend to have things most global elite travelers expect... like free internet (yes, i know that ACS are finally handing out t-mob cards) and more importantly, free booze. Who knows, maybe AA could finally buy a friggin clue and make drinks complementary in ACs (or at least beer & wine).
.
How is this a huge win for AA exec Plts unless they have a 75 mile level and a separate 100000 mile level

AA exec plts already get unlimited upgrades (domestic) and VIPS for international CO's get nothing for international

AA exec plts get flagship lounge ,,free booze etc...

I see it as a huge negative if implemented as you see it with full tier-tier equivalence
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Old Apr 30, 2008, 9:26 am
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by nytango
How is this a huge win for AA exec Plts unless they have a 75 mile level and a separate 100000 mile level

AA exec plts already get unlimited upgrades (domestic) and VIPS for international CO's get nothing for international

AA exec plts get flagship lounge ,,free booze etc...

I see it as a huge negative if implemented as you see it with full tier-tier equivalence
You are correct... the biggest win is for AA Golds & Plats. However, I disagree that flagship lounge is much of a benefit for those whose business travel is mostly domestic. IMHO, domestic ACs are still vastly inferior to CO PCs. YMMV.
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Old Apr 30, 2008, 9:36 am
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by nd_eric_77
...
2. Full cross-compatibility of lounge memberships... for both domestic AND international routes (eg: a CO PC member currently can use the NW WC lounges in NRT, ICN, etc... regardless of whether the PC member is flying on NW metal or even any Skyteam metal). This would be a pretty huge gain for AC members, as CO lounges tend to have things most global elite travelers expect... like free internet (yes, i know that ACS are finally handing out t-mob cards) and more importantly, free booze. Who knows, maybe AA could finally buy a friggin clue and make drinks complementary in ACs (or at least beer & wine).

All in all, I think AA could become a much better carrier if it were to partner with CO and adopt some of CO's best practices. On the flipside, CO could piss off a LOT of its elites if it were to partner with AA and adopt some of AA's WORST practices.

IMHO, the AS model is the WORST possible scenario. AS strikes me as an airline wh*re who will partner with anybody they can (except UA) in order to "stick it to" UA.
Actually, PC members can access any SkyTeam lounge regardless of what carrier they're flying on...I never fly SkyTeam, but have a PC membership solely because 90+% of my travel is into/out of SAT--AA is in T2 with no AC, but CO has a PC there.

Agree that if done correctly, AA and CO could merge "best practices" and have a killer FF program...but will throw in that it must not include fare-based upgrade prioritization (my perspective) as it would devalue EXP significantly for me (and many others, I suspect).

As to AS, I don't really know much about their MP program or the BR clubs...but it does seem that they'd be a good fit for AA to merge with in terms of routes and that the FF programs are not too incompatible (okay, they're radically different...).

cheers!
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