Anyone ever surprised by no BUR-JFK?

 
Old May 28, 07, 8:48 pm
  #31  
 
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Pretty simple - they can't make SNA-JFK or LGB-JFK work, so why would BUR?
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Old May 29, 07, 12:35 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by SNA_Flyer View Post
Pretty simple - they can't make SNA-JFK or LGB-JFK work, so why would BUR?
When did they fly SNA - JFK?
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Old May 29, 07, 1:31 am
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While we are discussing alternate airports, I would like an LAX-LGA non-stop!

I used to live in DC and took the shuttle up to New York all the time. Certain times of day I could be in Times Square 30 minutes after landing. I had never flown to JFK until I moved out here. AA's new terminal is fine, but JFK is more of a pain in the ... to get to/from than LGA.

A couple things to add to the serious discussion here. Used to work for GE. Corporate fleet is at HPN, but very few people get to use the planes. As far as the corporate travel policy, GE does enough business with every airline (think Aircraft Engines, GE Capital Aviation Leasing, etc) to have decent discounts with everyone. But even still they were one of the first companies to let employees book direct with WN. They could care less about who is flying where - more concerned with the lowest cost. Even though AA seemed to be preferred over the others when I was there, the self-booking computer system would always list the lowest fare as within policy - even if it was another airline - and make you fill out an exception reason if you wanted a higher fare (even if it was on AA).

Also, as mentioned earlier, ignore where the studios are. I work for one of the ones not in Burbank. Our folks - including execs - live everywhere from Malibu to Semi Valley to Pasadena to Westside LA to the Valley to Riverside to Orange County. Pay more attention to the entitlement policies to understand what drives even the folks who live out near Ontario to fly from LAX. For flights over 5 hours, lots of employees from the mid-level up are entitled to business class, but only if it is a 3 class aircraft. Even if they had BUR-JFK non-stop, I doubt it would be 3-class. Our folks can fly from whatever airport they want. But I know most of them would still take the extra time to get to LAX for a more comfortable ride to New York.

You also get a fair number of people traveling together in our industry since many of the functions are centralized in LA. (vs. some other industries where employees may be more spread out). I live in Santa Monica, but the three folks I travel with the most live in Calabasas, Studio City, and somewhere near Chino respectively. For short trips to LAS/SFO/PHX we will usually fly from LAX/BUR/ONT and meet there. But for NYC or other places on the east coast, we all meet at LAX and fly together. LAX ends up being the most central for the group.

Last edited by dbuckho; May 29, 07 at 1:43 am
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Old May 29, 07, 10:45 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by mvoight View Post
When did they fly SNA - JFK?
3-4 years ago, IIRC. Cancelled around the same time PHX-JFK went away (it existed for much longer, although I guess "much" is still relative).
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Old May 29, 07, 10:51 am
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Speaking of all the former JFK ops, wasn't there ONT-JFK a while back?
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Old May 29, 07, 11:16 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by dbuckho View Post
While we are discussing alternate airports, I would like an LAX-LGA non-stop!

I used to live in DC and took the shuttle up to New York all the time. Certain times of day I could be in Times Square 30 minutes after landing. I had never flown to JFK until I moved out here. AA's new terminal is fine, but JFK is more of a pain in the ... to get to/from than LGA.

A couple things to add to the serious discussion here. Used to work for GE. Corporate fleet is at HPN, but very few people get to use the planes. As far as the corporate travel policy, GE does enough business with every airline (think Aircraft Engines, GE Capital Aviation Leasing, etc) to have decent discounts with everyone. But even still they were one of the first companies to let employees book direct with WN. They could care less about who is flying where - more concerned with the lowest cost. Even though AA seemed to be preferred over the others when I was there, the self-booking computer system would always list the lowest fare as within policy - even if it was another airline - and make you fill out an exception reason if you wanted a higher fare (even if it was on AA).

Also, as mentioned earlier, ignore where the studios are. I work for one of the ones not in Burbank. Our folks - including execs - live everywhere from Malibu to Semi Valley to Pasadena to Westside LA to the Valley to Riverside to Orange County. Pay more attention to the entitlement policies to understand what drives even the folks who live out near Ontario to fly from LAX. For flights over 5 hours, lots of employees from the mid-level up are entitled to business class, but only if it is a 3 class aircraft. Even if they had BUR-JFK non-stop, I doubt it would be 3-class. Our folks can fly from whatever airport they want. But I know most of them would still take the extra time to get to LAX for a more comfortable ride to New York.

You also get a fair number of people traveling together in our industry since many of the functions are centralized in LA. (vs. some other industries where employees may be more spread out). I live in Santa Monica, but the three folks I travel with the most live in Calabasas, Studio City, and somewhere near Chino respectively. For short trips to LAS/SFO/PHX we will usually fly from LAX/BUR/ONT and meet there. But for NYC or other places on the east coast, we all meet at LAX and fly together. LAX ends up being the most central for the group.
LGA has mile limits on flights (1,500 miles I think) except on Saturdays and DEN (UA, Frontier) is also exempt. But would love to see a LGA-LAX direct.
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Old May 29, 07, 11:32 am
  #37  
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Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge View Post
LGA has mile limits on flights (1,500 miles I think) except on Saturdays and DEN (UA, Frontier) is also exempt. But would love to see a LGA-LAX direct.
Ever see the movie "Home Alone 2?" This made me think of it, it was on HBO not long ago, and not only were 767s flown ORD-LGA, but you see a shot of the LGA terminal, with a gate marked with a New York-LA flight. And by the views, I know it was LGA.
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Old May 29, 07, 11:37 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by mvoight View Post
When did they fly SNA - JFK?
AA gave up JFK/SNA a couple of years ago (757) and a few months after that gave up on JFK/LGB. The latter I really missed and from what I remember flights were always full but AA could not make money on those routes. JFK/BUR would be interesting and I would think that AA could fill up F on a 757 with paying paxs or full fare upgrading.
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Old May 29, 07, 11:51 am
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Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge View Post
AA gave up JFK/SNA a couple of years ago (757) and a few months after that gave up on JFK/LGB. The latter I really missed and from what I remember flights were always full but AA could not make money on those routes. JFK/BUR would be interesting and I would think that AA could fill up F on a 757 with paying paxs or full fare upgrading.
Let's say for argument's sake, that this were true. There are plenty of other routes where a 757 can not only have paying traffic up front, they can have high to full fares sitting in the back too. I'm thinking of routes like LAX-BOS and LAX-MIA, etc. Even if JFK-BUR made money, there's a good bet that another route will make more money.
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Old May 29, 07, 12:52 pm
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Fly AA J all the way View Post
Anyone ever surprised by no BUR-JFK?
Nope.

I'm really more surprised that there's no daily LIT-LAX AFS service.

Why not JFK-VNY? Plenty of runway. I've seen C-5s and B-52s land and takeoff at VNY.

I second the letter writing campaign suggestion.
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Old May 29, 07, 12:53 pm
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Originally Posted by SAN-man View Post
3-4 years ago, IIRC. Cancelled around the same time PHX-JFK went away (it existed for much longer, although I guess "much" is still relative).
As I recall SNA-JFK, and LGB-JFK were only put on the sched to hasass JetBlue when it was starting up, and reserve slots, although I'm pretty sure JFK is not slot controlled.

For some reason JFK-SNA doesn't seem to work, at various times AW,and TW also put it on the schedule, then withdrew after less than a year.

Yet, CO has been sucessful with EWR-SNA increasing from one to four or possibly five flights daily, before settling in to the three they now run.

Also AA runs SNA-LGA one stops, as does, or did UA and NW

Last edited by laguardiaguy; May 29, 07 at 12:57 pm Reason: added more gibberish
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Old May 29, 07, 12:56 pm
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Originally Posted by newyorkgeorge View Post
LGA has mile limits on flights (1,500 miles I think) except on Saturdays and DEN (UA, Frontier) is also exempt. But would love to see a LGA-LAX direct.
At one time or another AA and NW have had LGA-LAX one stoip service, not sure about now.
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Old May 29, 07, 1:28 pm
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Originally Posted by laguardiaguy View Post
At one time or another AA and NW have had LGA-LAX one stoip service, not sure about now.

AA has (or at least had) a LGA/LAX Saturday AM flight with a stop in ORD. A was told that DL also has a LGA/LAX flight on Saturday, do not know details.
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Old May 29, 07, 2:41 pm
  #44  
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Originally Posted by laguardiaguy View Post
Yet, CO has been sucessful with EWR-SNA increasing from one to four or possibly five flights daily, before settling in to the three they now run.

Also AA runs SNA-LGA one stops, as does, or did UA and NW
Well, Orange County is the New Jersey of Los Angeles . . .
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Old May 29, 07, 3:03 pm
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No but I predict the following surprises within the next 5 years:

AA: BUR-JFK, possibly BUR-MIA and BUR-BOS (or BOS area),
UA: BUR-IAD and maybe also BUR-JFK and BUR-HNL/OGG

As written elsewhere, the big airports like LAX, SFO, etc. are very close to maxing out capacity and there is little room for expansion due to growth constraints/opposition to runway development. So secondary airports like BUR, SJC, etc will be getting more flights. Alaska just announced service from Sonoma/Marin. And everyone keeps touting Palmdale, though I think that one is a bit far off.

No question that Orange Co. could use some expansion, but with El Toro nixed that may be a while in coming.

But given the # of studio types that live closer to BUR, the loads in C/F on this route, and the traffic and mess at LAX, BUR-NYC is a no-brainer. It may just take a few years before they have the necessary planes as they are still ramping up the even-more-profitable international service.
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