Anyone ever surprised by no BUR-JFK?
#16
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: DFW
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#17
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Westford MA - AA PLT, 1.5MM, Lifetime AC, AAdvantage since 1981
Posts: 360
BUR is actually Burbank-Glendale-Pasadena airport, and is managed by a board made up of officials from the three cities.
Local citizens, especially those who live in Burbank directly in the airport's flight paths, are strongly critical of increasing air traffic. There are even special rules for takeoff, so that planes minimize noise. In other words, it's a tough challenge for airlines to increase service out of BUR.
BUR-JFK? probably not . . .
Local citizens, especially those who live in Burbank directly in the airport's flight paths, are strongly critical of increasing air traffic. There are even special rules for takeoff, so that planes minimize noise. In other words, it's a tough challenge for airlines to increase service out of BUR.
BUR-JFK? probably not . . .
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP / LT PLT / 3MM, Marriott LT Gold
Posts: 35,366
Anyone ever surprised by no BUR-JFK?
Actually, yes. I wake up every morning and I'm surprised all over again that there is still no AA BUR-JFK flight. Nor is there a JFK-BUR one. I'm thinking about starting a petition.
Actually, yes. I wake up every morning and I'm surprised all over again that there is still no AA BUR-JFK flight. Nor is there a JFK-BUR one. I'm thinking about starting a petition.
#20
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: AA 1MM
Posts: 3,182
There's another important thing you aren't thinking of: just because a lot of studio execs work in Burbank doesn't mean they live there. In fact, I'm guessing very few of them do. Places like Santa Monica, Pacific Palisades, Brentwood, and Bel Air are are as convenient to LAX as BUR, if not more so. Add to that the better amenities at LAX (FL for those paying for first to NY, AC for those forking over for business), and a lot of extra options if one flight (the one flight with the OP's proposal) is delayed or cancelled and you have a strong case for keeping AA's resources largely concentrated at LAX.
#21
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: Los Angeles, CA - Nearly 4 Million Actual Miles Flown
Posts: 5,522
There are a lot of reasons why there are no non-stops to NYC from BUR on AA. And yet, I would give an arm to get one. B6 brought the only non-stop daily flight to JFK, and I don't see AA matching that flight for the same reasons that AA left LGB. It actually eroded their premium LAX-JFK traffic and was not a money maker even though loads were high.
Similarly, right before 9/11, DL announced non-stop service to ATL out of BUR. But it never happened immediately for obvious reasons. But they did start flying a few years later. I flew it many titmes and then they pulled it out for the winter, returning in the following spring, only to end the service completely a few months later. A good friend of mine at Delta told me the reason was that the revenue was just not there. The load was running in the mid 70s, which is profitable on most routes, but the revenue sucked. They weren't getting a lot of paid F, nor freight, and mostly T and U fares. I love to fly BUR to DFW and beyond on AA. But the fares are usually higher than flying out of LAX. I do fly BUR, but most of the time, it is out of LAX (on the BNA and EWR non-stops). Adding a flight to compete against B6 would also erode those fares on flights routed through DFW also.
Something else to consider is that because of the short runways, it can limit how many passengers are loaded on a JFK run. B6 frequently makes stops due to the Santa Anas or the heat at BUR. Even to DFW on AA, I have had to make 3 or 4 fuel stops in PHX before. It is not uncommon.
Finally, I would be surprised if the slots exist and BUR is slot controlled and they don't have any more gates to add, so who knows.
Similarly, right before 9/11, DL announced non-stop service to ATL out of BUR. But it never happened immediately for obvious reasons. But they did start flying a few years later. I flew it many titmes and then they pulled it out for the winter, returning in the following spring, only to end the service completely a few months later. A good friend of mine at Delta told me the reason was that the revenue was just not there. The load was running in the mid 70s, which is profitable on most routes, but the revenue sucked. They weren't getting a lot of paid F, nor freight, and mostly T and U fares. I love to fly BUR to DFW and beyond on AA. But the fares are usually higher than flying out of LAX. I do fly BUR, but most of the time, it is out of LAX (on the BNA and EWR non-stops). Adding a flight to compete against B6 would also erode those fares on flights routed through DFW also.
Something else to consider is that because of the short runways, it can limit how many passengers are loaded on a JFK run. B6 frequently makes stops due to the Santa Anas or the heat at BUR. Even to DFW on AA, I have had to make 3 or 4 fuel stops in PHX before. It is not uncommon.
Finally, I would be surprised if the slots exist and BUR is slot controlled and they don't have any more gates to add, so who knows.
#22
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: new york, ny, usa
Posts: 13,536
i'm not reAAlly surprised.
#23
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 148
(deleted: oops I see that JumboD already made my point. Is there any button to remove a post?)
#24
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: LAX, BUR
Posts: 1,559
Most of the big entertainment companies have contracts with UA. AA was dominant until a few years ago when they ceased the huge discounts they were offering.
Sony, Fox, Paramount and most of the high profile production companies are in the city. Warners, Disney and Uni/NBC are in the Valley. Disney and Uni do not have as significant operations in NY as the others do. Many of the divisions of WB (such as HBO) are in the city, not on the WB lot. Just doing the math there really isn't a big reason for anyone to shift. And, perhaps more importantly, most of the upper level execs live in the city, whether or not they work in the Valley.
(And just so people know where I am coming from: I have worked for most the companies mentioned, either on staff or freelance, over the last decade or so. And am fairly familiar with their travel contracts and procedures.)
Sony, Fox, Paramount and most of the high profile production companies are in the city. Warners, Disney and Uni/NBC are in the Valley. Disney and Uni do not have as significant operations in NY as the others do. Many of the divisions of WB (such as HBO) are in the city, not on the WB lot. Just doing the math there really isn't a big reason for anyone to shift. And, perhaps more importantly, most of the upper level execs live in the city, whether or not they work in the Valley.
(And just so people know where I am coming from: I have worked for most the companies mentioned, either on staff or freelance, over the last decade or so. And am fairly familiar with their travel contracts and procedures.)
#25
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: AA 1MM
Posts: 3,182
While I consider the idea presented in the OP completely unreasonable, I should point out that your statement isn't entirely accurate: Uni is a small part of a very large comapny whose headquarters is a short drive from JFK.
#26
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: LAX, BUR
Posts: 1,559
Yes, but it is a question of how much the execs and production people actually fly back and forth. Uni also has a couple (well, don't quote me on specific numbers) of corporate jets that do fly out of BUR, as do pretty much all the production companies for their top tier execs. These will usually fly into TEB or HPN.
#27
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: AA 1MM
Posts: 3,182
Yes, but it is a question of how much the execs and production people actually fly back and forth. Uni also has a couple (well, don't quote me on specific numbers) of corporate jets that do fly out of BUR, as do pretty much all the production companies for their top tier execs.
#28
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: LAX, BUR
Posts: 1,559
Don't recall ever hearing about GE execs coming out to check the Uni operations, or vice versa. i am sure it happens, but not a regular enough occurrence to justify a commercial flight. Honestly, the studio heads are not generally flying commercial. The commercial contracts seem to me to be aimed more at capturing the significant amount of production business. Producers, talent and directors are generally guaranteed first or business in their contracts. High level production people below them are generally guaranteed biz. Despite productions fleeing to Canada, Seattle and other locations, the bug US cities are still the most popular. Plus, premiers, meetings, etc...
#29
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: AA PLT, HH Gold, UA PE
Posts: 232
The BUR-JFK on B6 is *extremely* popular with NBCU folks. I'd be shocked to be on one of those flights and NOT have any NBCU staff on that flight.
#30
Join Date: Mar 2007
Programs: AA 1MM
Posts: 3,182
Don't recall ever hearing about GE execs coming out to check the Uni operations, or vice versa. i am sure it happens, but not a regular enough occurrence to justify a commercial flight. Honestly, the studio heads are not generally flying commercial. The commercial contracts seem to me to be aimed more at capturing the significant amount of production business. Producers, talent and directors are generally guaranteed first or business in their contracts. High level production people below them are generally guaranteed biz. Despite productions fleeing to Canada, Seattle and other locations, the bug US cities are still the most popular. Plus, premiers, meetings, etc...