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-   -   What is reasonable compensation for canceled flight that requires overnight stay? (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/american-airlines-aadvantage-pre-consolidation-usair/543023-what-reasonable-compensation-canceled-flight-requires-overnight-stay.html)

Prospero Mar 31, 06 4:50 pm

I appreciate you are happy with the offer you have received from AA. Its a fine gesture of good will and very generous.

To expand on JonNYC's comment, the EU rule will not apply in your situation as the airline has given you reasonable notice of the change. Its usual practice for EU based airlines in the case of schedule changes, cancellations or service withdrawal to offer those passengers affected an option to re-book onto a different flight/date or an opportunity to cancel and take a full refund.

JonNYC Mar 31, 06 5:03 pm


Originally Posted by Prospero
I appreciate you are happy with the offer you have received from AA. Its a fine gesture of good will and very generous.

To expand on JonNYC's comment, the EU rule will not apply in your situation as the airline has given you reasonable notice of the change. Its usual practice for EU based airlines in the case of schedule changes, cancellations or service withdrawal to offer those passengers affected an option to re-book onto a different flight/date or an opportunity to cancel and take a full refund.

Thanks for adding some clarity here-- I just couldn't wrap my mind around the idea of this even remotely comporting with what we think of as "being denied boarding"-- it just doesn't make any sense.

hhonorman Mar 31, 06 5:27 pm

I agree that the schedule change doesn't seem like it would be a denied boarding situation, but I haven't seen anything definitive yet. Also, AA's offer of $100 voucher each, considering they didn't cause the problem (just the messenger), was a very generous offer of goodwill. If this isn't a denied boarding situation as JonNYC suggests (probably rightfully so, but after reading rule 9.2.4 listed below, I'm not so sure anymore if it isn't a denied boarding scenario), then how would you classify it? Schedule change? Canceled flight? I'm just trying to figure out the appropriate language so I can determine the correct rule. That way I can determine what, if any, my rights are vis-a-vis possible compensation for out of pocket expenses.

Should SN be completely off the hook as far as my new-to-be incurred out of pocket expenses, such as hotel, transportation to/from and such, for their unilateral change to the deal we had? Seems unfair to me, the customer, that they can willy-nilly significantly change the terms of a deal causing me arguably significant costs (more than $100 for hotel plus train/cab fare for two each way) without any responsibility? Do I have any recourse to recoup those reasonable and necessary expenses? If so, do you think throwing in a meal should be part of the deal too? This isn't a minor schedule change, it's 24 hours difference. Is there someplace where it states what the rules are when there's a "schedule change?" Obviously I'm going to be bound by whatever the rules say, I'm just trying to determine what the rules are. Seems unfair if they can unilaterally change the deal and then say, take it or leave it, (i.e, be stuck with the new lousy schedule, or get only my miles back and cancel the whole trip). If taking it or leaving it (canceling the trip and getting my miles refunded) are the only options, what happens to the money I already paid in taxes on the tickets? I'm assuming that the airline is not going to be on the hook for the cancellation fees to my hotels, but just stating that to make the point that there are more costs to me associated with canceling the trip such that just giving me back my miles doesn't make me whole.

Edited to add:

I re-read SN's contract of carriage. Here's the part I think is relative:
-------------------------------------------------------
9.2. CANCELLATION, REROUTING, DELAYS, ETC.

9.2.1. We will take all necessary measures to avoid delay in carrying you and your baggage. In the exercise of these measures and in order to prevent a flight cancellation, in exceptional circumstances we may arrange for a flight to be operated on our behalf by an alternative carrier and/or aircraft.

9.2.2. Except as otherwise provided by the Convention, if we cancel a flight, fail to operate a flight reasonably according to the schedule, fail to stop at your destination or Stopover destination, or cause you to miss a connecting flight on which you hold a confirmed reservation, we shall, at your option, either
9.2.2.1 carry you at the earliest opportunity on another of our scheduled services on which space is available without additional charge and, where necessary, extend the validity of your Ticket; or
9.2.2.2 within a reasonable period of time re-route you to the destination shown on your Ticket by our own services or those of another carrier, or by other mutually agreed means and class of transportation without additional charge. If the fare and charges for the revised routing are lower than what you have paid, we shall refund the difference; or
9.2.2.3 make a refund in accordance with the provisions of Article 10.2;

9.2.3. Upon the occurrence of any of the events set out in Article 9.2.1, except as otherwise provided by the Convention, the options outlined in Article 9.2.2.1 through 9.2.2.3 are the sole and exclusive remedies available to you and we shall have no further liability to you.
In case of Damage caused by delay, our liability for each Passenger is limited, according to the Montreal Convention, to 4,150 SDR and for the Baggage to 1,000 SDR, except in case of act or omission done with intent to cause Damage or recklessly and with knowledge that Damage would probably result. Nevertheless, the carrier will not be liable for Damage occasioned by delay if it proves that it and its servants and agents took all necessary measures that could reasonably be required to avoid the Damage or that it was impossible for it or them to take such measures.

9.2.4. If we are unable to provide previously confirmed space, we shall provide compensation to those passengers denied boarding in accordance with applicable law and our denied boarding compensation policy.
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Here's their rule regarding denied boarding compensation:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
16.3. COMPENSATION FOR DEPARTURES OUTSIDE THE USA AND CANADA

a) If you are denied boarding on departures outside the USA and Canada you choose between :

(i) reimbursement of the fare paid for the unused part of the ticket or
(ii) rebooking on an alternative flight to your place of destination as stated in your ticket on either the first available flight or at a later date, whichever you prefer.

b) In addition to the above, if you were denied boarding you shall be entitled to compensation as follows :
Distance to place of destination Delay in arrival at place of destination Compensation amount
Up to 3500 kilometres Up to two hours EUR 75.00
Up to 3500 kilometres Over two hours EUR 150.00
Over 3500 kilometres Up to four hours EUR 150.00
Over 3500 kilometres Over four hours EUR 300.00



c) We will compensate you if you were denied boarding in the national currency of the point at which boarding was denied.

d) In cases in which the fare for a one-way flight on the sector for which boarding is denied is lower than the compensation stated under (b) above, the compensation paid by us shall amount to this one-way fare.

e) You may choose whether you wish to receive your denied-boarding compensation in the form of a cash payment or a travel voucher.

f) In addition to the above, we shall reimburse you in case of denied boarding for :
(i) one phone call and one telex or fax message to your place of destination;
(ii) reasonable costs for meals and accommodation incurred by you while waiting for carriage;
(iii) the costs of all transfers within the airport area;
(iv) the costs of all transport between the new and the original destination airport, in cases where a city or region is served by more than one airport.

g) The payment of denied boarding compensation should have no limiting impact on your further statutory rights.
------------------------------------------------------------------
I couldn't cut and paste the EU rules here, but the link to them is in post #10 of this thread. Please see Articles 7, 8, & 9, they are not long. Do you think they apply to a schedule change like this? If both SN's rules apply and the EU's rules apply, which one controls? The EU's rules are much more generous than SN's rules.

JonNYC Mar 31, 06 6:52 pm

Just my opinion-- nothing more:

This isn't even REMOTELY being "denied boarding."

Your situation has nothing whatsoever to do with "being denied boarding"

I can't see it possibly being interpreted as "denied boarding."

Again, just my opinion. Could be wrong.

IceTrojan Mar 31, 06 6:54 pm


Originally Posted by JonNYC
Just my opinion-- nothing more:

This isn't even REMOTELY being "denied boarding."

Your situation has nothing whatsoever to do with "being denied boarding"

I can't see it possibly being interpreted as "denied boarding."

Again, just my opinion. Could be wrong.

I would go with JonNYC's valuation on this matter, even over mine... I'm just an egotistical hot-head...

magic111 Mar 31, 06 7:03 pm

I thought this was a schedule change and usually what happens to me is that I am offered a reroute or a refund. I have never gotten a reroute and compensation. If I am insistent that the reroute will not work the next offer is invariably a refund.

SanDiego1K Mar 31, 06 7:25 pm

I'm baffled as to why you don't just take the train from Brussels to Strasbourg. Have AA cancel that portion of the award and keep all your arrangements the same - no change in hotel, no change in appointments, the only expenditure is the train ticket.

Wexflyer Mar 31, 06 7:49 pm


Originally Posted by SanDiego1K
I'm baffled as to why you don't just take the train from Brussels to Strasbourg. Have AA cancel that portion of the award and keep all your arrangements the same - no change in hotel, no change in appointments, the only expenditure is the train ticket.

Precisely. It is crazy to kick your heels for a whole extra day just to wait for the single Brussels-Strasbourg flight.

chrissxb Apr 1, 06 12:13 am


Originally Posted by fs2k2isfun
You might also want to consider going by rail from FRA or simply going to STR, it's not very far from Strasbourg. From STR you could either take a train or rent a car, the drive is under 100 miles, and you would get the joy of driving on the Autobahn!!

I live at SXB. the Stuttgart - Strasbourg autobahn isn't really a joy. :mad:

I'd take the train from brussels to strasbourg, there are several direct trains a day. takes you about 4h which is really ok.

if you're at Strasbourg and need assistance or want to have dinner with local FTer, just pm me

dayone Apr 1, 06 12:32 am

You're still quoting compensation chapter and verse and this is an award flight on another airline, right?

dayone Apr 1, 06 12:34 am


Originally Posted by Wexflyer
Precisely. It is crazy to kick your heels...

Or "cool your heels."

honu Apr 1, 06 12:36 am

Or, as somebody already suggested, fly to an alternative airport. I had to do just that when IB moved our LHR-SVQ flight by 5 hours. Now we're flying BA to AGP, on the same day (and we'll actually get in a bit earlier).

chrissxb Apr 1, 06 12:44 am

for alternative airport, I'd go to BSL/MLH airport which is just one hour by train from Strasbourg. and its a lovely ride

yosithezet Apr 1, 06 12:51 am

I would agree that it seems like taking the train is a great option to avoid the extra expenses. Take the $200 from AA and have them cancel that part of the trip.

I checked the Belgian railways (NMBS ) website and I couldn't price out the itinerary but it looks like there are plenty of trains that will get you to Strasbourg from Brussels Nat Aero with 1 or 2 stops via Brussels Nord.

chrissxb Apr 1, 06 12:56 am


Originally Posted by yosithezet
I checked the Belgian railways (NMBS ) website and I couldn't price out the itinerary but it looks like there are plenty of trains that will get you to Strasbourg from Brussels Nat Aero with 1 or 2 stops via Brussels Nord.

and if you check from Brussels Midi (which is the central station) you'll see that there are some thru-going-trains, too.


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