Important: Support AA and write to the DOT

 
Old Jul 21, 05, 3:55 pm
  #1  
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Important: Support AA and write to the DOT

As some may or may not know, six skyTeam airlines - Alitalia, Air France, Delta, Northwest, KLM, and CSA Czech - have asked for anti-trust immunity on trans-Atlantic routes:

http://prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/storie...4072447&EDATE=

This has become a hotly contested topic, because it would leave two US and four European airlines all sharing anti-trust immunity, which, IMO, is just insane. This proposed anti-trust will have six airlines controlling a huge majority of the traffic between the US and four countries - Italy, Czech Republic, France, and the Netherlands.

The DOT takes these issues seriously, and considers public feedback important matter. The more the better! American Airlines is strongly against this, and, as an AA flyer, you should be too. You can support AA by filing a docket, which can be done anonymously if you chose (it is better, though, if you give at least your name; anoymous submissions obviously have less weight), here:

http://dmses.dot.gov/submit/dspSubmission.cfm

Under "Docket ID", enter the number 19214, and under "Document Title", fill in something allong the lines "Submission by XXX in Opposition (or, Approval, if you approve of it) of proposed skyTeam anti-trust". Then fill in as much or as little information as you'd like (this is being submitted to the US government; don't worry spam or anything such). On the next page, write as little or as much as you'd like: a one sentence "I oppose to the proposed anti-trust immunity between the skyTeam airlines"; a whole essay about why you think it's unfair that such a huge number of airlines may get anti-trust, while AA/BA can't; a paragraph on how you think it will be unfair compietition; or a few words on why you support this application.

Submitting a docket can take as little as two minutes of your time, and can help prevent this unfair anti-trust alliance from moving foward. American Airlines has already submitted more than one docket in opposition, the most recent which can be seen here (*.pdf link):

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf92/339730_web.pdf

And, as AA did, mentioning something along the lines of "this is unfair unless AA/BA get antitrust" is good bonus points, if you support AA/BA's antitrust.

Last edited by MAH4546; Jul 21, 05 at 4:10 pm
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Old Jul 21, 05, 4:03 pm
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Thanks for the link. I will do this today.
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Old Jul 21, 05, 4:06 pm
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Done
Can't have the French rule the world ...
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Old Jul 21, 05, 4:09 pm
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done!

SkyTeam Application Receives Broad Support From Communities, Corporate
Customers, Labor and Consumers
huh...
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Old Jul 21, 05, 4:10 pm
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Gonna go there, thanks for the info... and I can see when Aeroflop becomes a full SkyScream member, they will ask for inclusion .
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Old Jul 21, 05, 4:24 pm
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Done! I said for them to not approve it because if they did so, they would also have to approve AA/BA, which I don't think is a good idea. We need less cooperation and more competition, IMHO.
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Old Jul 21, 05, 4:26 pm
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Originally Posted by ProTexana
Done! I said for them to not approve it because if they did so, they would also have to approve AA/BA, which I don't think is a good idea. We need less cooperation and more competition, IMHO.
Maybe if we had more competition, maybe AA would then be forced to continually upgrade their J product to keep up with the likes of BA, and VS.
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Old Jul 21, 05, 4:45 pm
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Thanks!

Excellent catch! Fares are high enough with fuel costs being passed on; airlines need more competion, not less(or at least not immunity from anti-trust violations).

Does this work?

Skyteam : DFW
Immunity : Wright Amendment
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Old Jul 21, 05, 4:54 pm
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Sorry, but AA/BA's stranglehold on LHR-US traffic needs to be broken as well. The big difference is that the U.S. has open skies treaties with all of those countries and nothing is preventing AA from flying or adding more flights to France, Italy,Holland, and the Czech Republic. However, DL, NW, and CO are all PREVENTED from taking a crack at the world's most lucrative international market because of that archaic Bermuda II agreement. So it's not really on an equal basis that this fight is being conducted! We're not comparing apples with apples here.
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Old Jul 21, 05, 4:57 pm
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Originally Posted by ClipperDelta
Sorry, but AA/BA's stranglehold on LHR-US traffic needs to be broken as well. The big difference is that the U.S. has open skies treaties with all of those countries and nothing is preventing AA from flying or adding more flights to France, Italy,Holland, and the Czech Republic. However, DL, NW, and CO are all PREVENTED from taking a crack at the world's most lucrative international market because of that archaic Bermuda II agreement. So it's not really on an equal basis that this fight is being conducted! We're not comparing apples with apples here.
You may well be correct here, but I don't think you'll get much sympathy for this viewpoint in the AA forum.

Cheers.
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Old Jul 21, 05, 5:08 pm
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Originally Posted by ClipperDelta
Sorry, but AA/BA's stranglehold on LHR-US traffic needs to be broken as well. The big difference is that the U.S. has open skies treaties with all of those countries and nothing is preventing AA from flying or adding more flights to France, Italy,Holland, and the Czech Republic. However, DL, NW, and CO are all PREVENTED from taking a crack at the world's most lucrative international market because of that archaic Bermuda II agreement. So it's not really on an equal basis that this fight is being conducted! We're not comparing apples with apples here.
Point taken. Even if they did away with Bermuda II things would not change much because LHR is slot restricted and if and only if the U.K. gov. opens more slots then even with the lifting of B II, DL, NW, and CO would be left out unless the repeal of B II included lifting slot restrictions at LHR and that is something that the U.K. gov won't do anytime soon. Especially because the BAA is spending a ton of money updating LGW right now. Hey I would love to see LHR service from DFW.
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Old Jul 21, 05, 5:14 pm
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Originally Posted by chsb
Point taken. Even if they did away with Bermuda II things would not change much because LHR is slot restricted and if and only if the U.K. gov. opens more slots then even with the lifting of B II, DL, NW, and CO would be left out unless the repeal of B II included lifting slot restrictions at LHR and that is something that the U.K. gov won't do anytime soon. Especially because the BAA is spending a ton of money updating LGW right now. Hey I would love to see LHR service from DFW.
With respect to the LHR slot limit for AA, what exactly prevents them from moving one of the MIA-LHR to DFW, and a DFW-LGW to MIA?
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Old Jul 21, 05, 5:19 pm
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Originally Posted by mhpkev
With respect to the LHR slot limit for AA, what exactly prevents them from moving one of the MIA-LHR to DFW, and a DFW-LGW to MIA?
The only US cities that are allowed to see non-stop service to Heathrow are:

1) Cities that had non-stop service to London in 1977 - Boston, Detroit, Chicago, Los Angeles, Miami, New York City, San Francisco, Seattle, and Washington.
2) Co-terminals of those cities, including Baltimore, Fort Lauderdale, Newark, and Oakland.
3) Anchorage, Alaska and Minneapolis, Minnesota, though only by a British airline.
4) Cities that are served on a US-London route by only one British carrier that carriers a significant amount of traffic over the period of three years, in which then the British airline can transfer the service to Heathrow. However, if a second airline enters the market, then the service must be returned to Gatwick.

However, this only applies to US and UK airlines. A third-country airline can indepdently negotiate for US-LHR rights to any US city, including those that are not bound by Bermuda II (for example, Air India can fly DFW-LHR).

Last edited by MAH4546; Jul 21, 05 at 5:22 pm
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Old Jul 21, 05, 5:21 pm
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Originally Posted by ClipperDelta
Sorry, but AA/BA's stranglehold on LHR-US traffic needs to be broken as well. The big difference is that the U.S. has open skies treaties with all of those countries and nothing is preventing AA from flying or adding more flights to France, Italy,Holland, and the Czech Republic. However, DL, NW, and CO are all PREVENTED from taking a crack at the world's most lucrative international market because of that archaic Bermuda II agreement. So it's not really on an equal basis that this fight is being conducted! We're not comparing apples with apples here.
Point well taken, entirely correct. I personally support AA/BA's application for personal reasons.

Though I don't support any anti-trust alliance that includes SIX (and in the future, more) airlines, even if it was AA. That is plain ridiculous. Consumers stand no benefit.
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Old Jul 21, 05, 5:23 pm
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Originally Posted by mhpkev
With respect to the LHR slot limit for AA, what exactly prevents them from moving one of the MIA-LHR to DFW, and a DFW-LGW to MIA?
The Bermuda II Agreement, which is the treaty governing air traffic rights between the U.S. and the U.K. contains a provision limiting both the number of carriers of each country that can operate into Heathrow (2 U.S. and 2 U.K.) on routes to the USA and the destinations that can be served non-stop from LHR. Both Dallas and Raleigh are not on that list, hence the reason those flights are at LGW.

In some cases, it creates a major advantage for one carrier. For example, BA can serve DTW non-stop from LHR, but NW is relagated to LGW (same goes for EWR). However, BA cannot serve ATL non-stop from LHR, hence the reason both it and DL operate to ATL from LGW.
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