graraps

BA doesn't make any profits on unrestricted routes (i.e. within the EU). All of its profits come from longhaul and a handful of restricted shorthaul markets (e.g. DME, LED, KBP, IST). Also, as has been mentioned already, LON is a very big if not the biggest O/D market in the world, and even attracts flyers from other places in England and Wales, which means that BA doesn't have to transfer many people and suffer associated costs (reduced yield, more lost luggage, extra compensation for missed connections etc).
This is what drives the high fares that BA charges (many pax are willing to pay a nonstop premium) and the stingy FFP, especially in the UK market where elite qualification requirements are almost absurd (what's the point of giving loyalty incentives to people who anyway have to fly BA unless they want every flight of theirs to go via AMS/CDG/FRA?).
Therefore the BA model cannot be copied by AA or anyone else, unless they can get a zillion slots and flight rights to just about everywhere in one of the world's top 3 O&D markets.

JimmyTheJock

Yes...but BA don't claim that their cabin on short-haul is 1st class...it's marketed as Business Class...when you compare BA & AA's long haul Business and FIRST cabins there's no competition...BA...BA...and more BA.

But please don't go away AA...as long as I can book my BA tickets through AA.com cheaper than on BA.com I still love you!

blueeyes_austin

EXACTLY.

jamespvg

I think this is a very interesting topics, with credible arguments on both sides. The comment above, however, is absolutely ridiculous. I can't see how anyone who has flown both Club Europe and AA domestic economy could come up with this observation.

I think an important point about the differentiation in seating product is that core US domestic routes tend to be trans/mid-cons. On these 3-4 hour flights, seating comfort begins to be an important factor. The core business routes for BA, on the other hand are BRU, CDG, FRA, FCO, MIL, MAD, EDI, ZRH, etc. These flights barely scrape two hours (some are 40 minutes!) -- for me, at least, lounge access on the ground, a selection of free papers and a decent meal in flight are more important than extra pitch and a big chair.

I would add that medium-haul flights, such as ATH, IST, DME and the like, are a different kettle of fish, and BA's J product is a let down here.

hillrider

Couldn't have said it more, especially when you factor in that with AA, many of those very same flight lengts are on RJs -- then you get less pitch than BA, and no lounge, no food, and planes flying slowly and low.

krug

All Club Europe fares also qualify for Lounge/Terraces access (subject to size of lounge at one or two smaller outpost/contract lounges), with complimentary full bar, snacks and sandwiches, and of course you get leather seats, though personally I prefer cloth.

The achilles heel in the BA Club Europe service are those flights 3+ hours long which still feature a standard CE seat. These are Larnaca, Athens, Moscow and Istanbul.

However, you would be hard pressed to justify a flat bed on these services as little sleeping is involved.

Flat beds do operate, however, on medium haul Cairo and (most of the time) the Tel Aviv service, which are ideal if connecting from a longhaul.

New 2-2 seats are being trialled on board two aircraft this month, so maybe, particularly on these longer flights in the future, we might see larger seats more akin to AA F seats.

BA has been the most profitable airline in the world for a number of years now, making over $750million pre-tax last year, without any government 9/11 handout:

British Airways today announced a pre-tax profit of £415 million for the year to March 31, 2005 (2004: £230 million profit). There was a pre-tax profit for the fourth quarter of £5 million (2004: £45 million profit).

Operating profit for the year was £540 million (2004: £405 million profit). The operating margin was 6.9 per cent (2004: 5.4). The operating profit for the fourth quarter was £40 million (2004: £32 million profit).

Net debt at £2.9 billion fell by £1.2 billion during the year and is at its lowest level since 1993. Cash inflow, before financing, was £1.2 billion, an increase of £307 million.

I think AAs business plan, such as it is, is geared to local hub and spoke markets and a tied customer base of government mandated flying and loyal FFers like us. Plus the journeys are generally longer, and this is where a bigger seat is of importance.

BA has recently had a much more competitive environment, with trains and the car a realistic alternative for shorter journeys (even to northern European cities) in a way that is not the case in the USA, and so shorthaul is a more basic offering for premium pax, bolstered by perks like superior lounges and ticket flexibility on the ground and "soft" offerings like champagne in the air.

I flew Song up to Boston from Tampa last week, my first Song experience, and while I used to favour AA for domestic travel, I will consider others in future.

The Live TVs on Song, In Flight Martinis and fun crew really impressed me, despite the seat, but then I paid just $98 one way, purchased the week before. Still earned full miles to Virgin as well.

Comparing the two is like comparing Catholicism and Judaism. There, that should put the cat among the Pigeons. Let's just hope the pigeons are kosher!

pauleeepaul

Forget BA's business model- AA needs to take a page from BA.com with respect to searching for upgrade availability. BA.com gives you the availability for an entire month. (and only 25,000 miles rt Y+ to flat J for US-Europe with no copay- fare is ~$1,200 for August travel.) And in August for 2 seats there is wide open availability- vs. waiting for 2 weeks prior to travel for VIPs to clear. It has been a dozen years since I took anything but AA across the pond. (I have flown BA J/F LHR-Asia.) But for this trip to Europe BA is looking pretty strong. Kinda sad.

CT-UK

Please NO. BA.Com sucks in so many ways it isn't funny AA is so much better in so many ways. On BA.com you have no way in the world to find out what booking class you are in and it is down a lot.