Replacinig MD80's

 
Old Mar 9, 05, 6:32 am
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Replacinig MD80's

When and what will AA start replacing or phasing out their MD80s? They have to be getting up there in age and replacements have to be on the horizon. It seems Alaska and Delta have almost phased them out with Continental and Hawaiian completely phased them out.

After flying an MD80 a 737 is like a luxury with its wide cabin.
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Old Mar 9, 05, 7:05 am
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I suggest you read AMR 10-K.

The short answer is: not anytime soon as only 19 of their 210 leased MD80s expire prior to 2010. They also own 144 MD80s giving them a total of 354 (does not include 9 MD80s that deemed non-operating), with an average age of 16 years. Not that old in airline years, considering NW is flying up to almost 30 year old DC10s.

FWIW the average age of AA's 767-200 is 18 years.
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Old Mar 9, 05, 12:53 pm
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AA has a mAAster plAAn:

Step 1: Eliminate free meals in Y; sell meals instead. - DONE.

Step 2: Eliminate pillows in Y. - DONE.

Step 3: Stop selling meals; give away snacks. - NEXT (now that DL has...)

Step 4: Convert all the MD-80 galley space formerly used for food carts to store & charge the hand-held video players, and rent them for $10 each.

Sadly, that $10pp incremental revenue will now constitute a significant premium. Unfortunately, in response, Washington will try to assess PFCs and Airport Security Charges, driving the cost from $10 to $23.50...
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Old Mar 9, 05, 1:07 pm
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I hear AA believes that the MD80 will be a 30 year airplane. I think the oldest of the airframes was delivered in 1984 (approx) meaning the first one won't get tied down forever until 2014. AA was taking new MD80's until around 1992. And some of the TW airplanes are even newer than that though you wouldn't know it to look at them sometimes.
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Old Mar 9, 05, 1:16 pm
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Originally Posted by MikeTucson
When and what will AA start replacing or phasing out their MD80s? They have to be getting up there in age and replacements have to be on the horizon. It seems Alaska and Delta have almost phased them out with Continental and Hawaiian completely phased them out.

After flying an MD80 a 737 is like a luxury with its wide cabin.



Are you aware that AA is fighting for its financial life? Have you read any of the recent news? AA's Q1 announcement in a few weeks will probably show a loss in the neighborhood of $4 million per day (and maybe higher).

Ordering new airplanes isn't going to happen for quite a while. Last fall, AA pushed back deliveries of already ordered 737s to beyond 2010.

Anyway, if NW can successfully fly its old DC-9s for 40 years, so can AA with proper maintenance.
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Old Mar 9, 05, 1:23 pm
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Originally Posted by MikeTucson
When and what will AA start replacing or phasing out their MD80s? They have to be getting up there in age and replacements have to be on the horizon. It seems Alaska and Delta have almost phased them out with Continental and Hawaiian completely phased them out.

After flying an MD80 a 737 is like a luxury with its wide cabin.
Alaska hasn't phased them out, in fact our plans currently are to keep them in the fleet through 2013 so they are a long way from gone at Alaska.
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Old Mar 9, 05, 2:38 pm
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I don't see any reason to get rid of the MD80s.

AA could redo the interiors and IFE and you probably wouldn't even realize it's an MD80.

But I really think they are going to have to do something soon about IFE on the entire fleet (except 777) if they want to compete with JetBlue, Song, etc.
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Old Mar 9, 05, 3:00 pm
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Originally Posted by flyastrojets
And some of the TW airplanes are even newer than that though you wouldn't know it to look at them sometimes.
My understanding is the TW MD80s AA picked un in the acquisition are newer. I had a flight crew tell me that the cockpit on the TW MD80s are more modern than the AA version. I responded that while that might be true, the interior of the cabin is definitely not.
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Old Mar 9, 05, 3:02 pm
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Originally Posted by flyastrojets
AA was taking new MD80's until around 1992. And some of the TW airplanes are even newer than that though you wouldn't know it to look at them sometimes.
TWA's last MD-83 was delivered in December 1999, making it barely five years old. While the older TWA MD-80s are a little long in the tooth (being 23 years old that's understandable), the new ones have always been in great shape when I've seen them.

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Old Mar 9, 05, 3:32 pm
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I think AA investigated in-flight entertainment options for the MD80, and pre-9/11 were all set to throw in pop-down screens (like Delta) every few rows. Those plans were scrapped along with the long-term plan of replacing MD80s with 737s. The solution AA came up with was portAAble entertAAinment, which is supposed to be coming to all MD80s sometime in the near future for passenger use (Y=$10 F=complimentary).

Too bad.
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Old Mar 9, 05, 3:32 pm
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Originally Posted by fletch050
My understanding is the TW MD80s AA picked un in the acquisition are newer. I had a flight crew tell me that the cockpit on the TW MD80s are more modern than the AA version. I responded that while that might be true, the interior of the cabin is definitely not.
Many of the TW MD80's have an advanced EFIS package including an electronic engine instrument indicator system. Some of the original AA MD80's had electronic artificial horizon indicators and HSI's, but the engine instruments were still the old round dials.
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Old Mar 9, 05, 3:46 pm
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Originally Posted by flyastrojets
Many of the TW MD80's have an advanced EFIS package including an electronic engine instrument indicator system. Some of the original AA MD80's had electronic artificial horizon indicators and HSI's, but the engine instruments were still the old round dials.
IIRC a number of the newer MD-83s (perhaps the last 24) were configured as over-water aircraft...this enabled them to fly more efficient routes JFK- to florida and as well to the Carribean. I believe AA opted not to utilize this feature. In fact, I think I recall reading somewhere that they may have been 'de-rated' (that is the life rafts taken out) by AA. Not sure on the last point.
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Old Mar 9, 05, 3:49 pm
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Originally Posted by nyc6035
IIRC a number of the newer MD-83s (perhaps the last 24) were configured as over-water aircraft...this enabled them to fly more efficient routes JFK- to florida and as well to the Carribean. I believe AA opted not to utilize this feature. In fact, I think I recall reading somewhere that they may have been 'de-rated' (that is the life rafts taken out) by AA. Not sure on the last point.
This makes sense given AA's recent decision to remove all MD-80s from MIA and replace them with 738s (which are over-water equipped).
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Old Mar 9, 05, 4:53 pm
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Originally Posted by MikeTucson
After flying an MD80 a 737 is like a luxury with its wide cabin.
?? I *much* prefer an MD-80 to a 737.

-- On an MD-80, only 20% of seats are the awful middle seats, vs. 33% on a 737.

-- The coach seats are about 1 inch narrower in a 737, as compared to an MD-80. That inch makes a big difference to me: the difference between being firmly wedged into place, vs. a little "wiggle room".
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Old Mar 9, 05, 5:28 pm
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Originally Posted by PDX-PLT
?? I *much* prefer an MD-80 to a 737.

-- On an MD-80, only 20% of seats are the awful middle seats, vs. 33% on a 737.

-- The coach seats are about 1 inch narrower in a 737, as compared to an MD-80. That inch makes a big difference to me: the difference between being firmly wedged into place, vs. a little "wiggle room".
lol, yet another case of where you stand depending on where you sit... in F, the 737 is much roomier than the MD80...
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