rumor : new upgrade co-payment effective 01dec04
#76
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
The part confuses me is 90,000 miles for a business class award ticket to Europe. But now, one could easily end up spending 50,000 miles + $500 + $600+ for an economy ticket upgraded. To me-- the non-differentiation between "discount" and "deep discount" fares in assessing this fee is something that will have to be revisited (at least I hope so.)
#77
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 463
I think I'm going to cry. I have quite happily given AA ever shred of my FF business in exchange for a generous FF program and upgrades into mediocre J class with usually broken seats on international flights and some ok food. This move is certainly going to prompt a run on 31 AB HJ.
I'm losing my UA status this year and now I'm kicking myself for remaining so blindly loyal. Coming from NYC, AA is never the most convenient option, but I have stuck with them. Now it's going to be much harder for me to justify not flying CO/DL as much as I used to grimace.
I'm losing my UA status this year and now I'm kicking myself for remaining so blindly loyal. Coming from NYC, AA is never the most convenient option, but I have stuck with them. Now it's going to be much harder for me to justify not flying CO/DL as much as I used to grimace.
#78
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: OH
Programs: AA Lifetime Plat, Marriot Lifetime Gold
Posts: 9,523
Originally Posted by polkacat
On a personal level, this really sucks. Although I have enjoyed using miles to upgrade Transatlantic, it's not worth $250 on TOP of miles for me to do it. I'd rather keep that $250 to spend at my destination
Originally Posted by polkacat
On a big picture level, I agree that AA is slowly carving away all of the features (MRTC, upgrades) that differentiate AA and Aadvantage from other airlines and FF programs. While no one feature may be the deciding factor for ALL flyers, at this rate, they're managing to eliminate one deciding factor after another....
#79
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: FLL, over-inflated EGO due to EXP status
Posts: 4,519
Originally Posted by JonNYC
The part confuses me is 90,000 miles for a business class award ticket to Europe. But now, one could easily end up spending 50,000 miles + $500 + $600+ for an economy ticket upgraded. To me-- the non-differentiation between "discount" and "deep discount" fares in assessing this fee is something that will have to be revisited (at least I hope so.)
Guess we gotta wait and see tomorrow. I really hope AA took a measured approach to this, as they have in the past with changes, and that these fees are only going to apply to the deep discounted fares.
#80
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: LAX / AA PLT
Posts: 142
I often go out of my way to fly AA and make PLT (and then some...I'll be at 77K this year), but the primary use for my miles is int'l upgrades. If this comes to pass, I'll fly enough miles to make GLD (for elite security lines, Group 1), but after that, I'll fly on price alone. Most likely, I'll start accumulating miles on UA again (PHL direct, SYD direct, more flights to ORD, IAD, etc).
Again, like most posters have asked, why not just raise the mileage req or do what FWAAA suggested? For some fares, the $500 "upgrade tax" is more than the fare itself...which I realize is AA's point (fares are super low), but again, there are other less abrasive options.
Again, like most posters have asked, why not just raise the mileage req or do what FWAAA suggested? For some fares, the $500 "upgrade tax" is more than the fare itself...which I realize is AA's point (fares are super low), but again, there are other less abrasive options.
#81
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: United Airlines - It's Time to Fly
Posts: 219
Some thoughts:
1. The change to the upgrade scheme was inevitable - AA's switch to a 2-cabin model on many longhaul flights means that the airline can no longer treat J as a glorified Economy, and must readjust its business model to get business class fares occupying business class seats. Nearly every other predominantly 2-cabin major longhaul carrier has similarly restrictive upgrade rules - anyone thinking that AA would be any different was out of touch with this industry reality.
2. I fully expect AA to revamp its J cabins within the next 6-12 months. However, it makes good sense from a business standpoint to realign the J cabin revenue stream PRIOR to making the investment in the new product.
3. As is the case with most things, fleeing to UA will only prove to be a temporary reprieve - UA is also planning to rollout a new J cabin (and will probably eliminate F on its 763s as well), and will therefore likely abolish its international upgrade welfare state as well.
1. The change to the upgrade scheme was inevitable - AA's switch to a 2-cabin model on many longhaul flights means that the airline can no longer treat J as a glorified Economy, and must readjust its business model to get business class fares occupying business class seats. Nearly every other predominantly 2-cabin major longhaul carrier has similarly restrictive upgrade rules - anyone thinking that AA would be any different was out of touch with this industry reality.
2. I fully expect AA to revamp its J cabins within the next 6-12 months. However, it makes good sense from a business standpoint to realign the J cabin revenue stream PRIOR to making the investment in the new product.
3. As is the case with most things, fleeing to UA will only prove to be a temporary reprieve - UA is also planning to rollout a new J cabin (and will probably eliminate F on its 763s as well), and will therefore likely abolish its international upgrade welfare state as well.
#82
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789
Originally Posted by JonNYC
The part confuses me is 90,000 miles for a business class award ticket to Europe. But now, one could easily end up spending 50,000 miles + $500 + $600+ for an economy ticket upgraded. To me-- the non-differentiation between "discount" and "deep discount" fares in assessing this fee is something that will have to be revisited (at least I hope so.)
I'm not sure I agree with you about the need to differentiate between deep discount and higher-fare tickets.
The price of those tickets reflects (or is supposed to reflect) how much you are willing to pay to get there. If you plan ahead, generally, you pay much less than if you wait til closer to departure time. Those who book close to departure time can presumably pay more. Price discrimination, pure and simple.
If the upgrade fee is reduced (or waived) for higher economy fares, that reduces the revenue premium that AA is already able to extract from those who don't plan as far ahead.
If anything, AA should probably consider charging several hundred dollars more to upgrade from higher-economy fares than from deep discount fares, capitalizing on its already-proven abilities to practice successful price discrimination. If you're willing to pay more for your ticket than someone who bought weeks or months ago, maybe you're willing to pay more to upgrade, as well.
#83
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 538
Originally Posted by LLZ
I'm just disappointed in this. If AA were to only apply this to the lowest fares, G Q N S, AND they are indeed were going to revamp their J class, then it's not so bad.
#84
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Third planet from the Sun
Posts: 7,022
Last Summer, AA stated the AA program was way to generous and with a new round of mangers in place, the changes are starting to happen. Do not be suprised when they start only giving out 1/2 mile of discounted fares.
#85
Suspended
Join Date: Apr 2002
Programs: AA EXP, BA GLD, FT < 30 y
Posts: 2,106
AA better enhance their J product if they want to charge this fee
CO, BA, and VS J is far better than anything AA offers. With the $500 surcharge, you could easily book into WT+ on BA and upgrade to CW on a transatlantic flight. So for upgraders willing to pay the premium, it's far better to fly with BA or CO.
How many of us look completely stupid now to the friends we've switched over to AA?
I think I converted about 8-9 colleagues, got them on PLT challenges, mainly from CO. And now they have to pay to upgrade as well?
This will probably end up decreasing AAs revenue
For family and friends I'd usually upgrade them to J on international flights using the 50K miles for Christmas and birthday presents. Now spending 25K miles AND $500, that's getting expensive! What it's probably better to do now is just gift them a couple of free domestic r/t tickets, which would deprive AA of revenue it would have already gotten anyhow.
If this change affects VIPOWs, the complimentary domestic upgrade policy, or using stickers to HNL I'm switching to another carrier
Probably BA trans-Atlantic exclusively and maybe UA domestically and to Asia, using a status match in 2005.
Overall, these changes have shaken my view of American Airlines and frequent flier programs in general
What is the point of being loyal to an airline if they can make all kinds of changes like this? Now it's pay to upgrade, no more MRTC.... What differentiates AA from any other airline??
Maybe it's time for a new hobby-- my gf is always telling me we should get our pilot's licenses or learn to sail. Everytime she sees contrails in the sky she's like, "Look, Charles there goes your money!" If I knew as much about the stock market and mutual funds as I do about frequent flier miles, well.... Maybe it's time to start reading the book she gave me for my birthday-- Mutual Funds for Dummies.
CO, BA, and VS J is far better than anything AA offers. With the $500 surcharge, you could easily book into WT+ on BA and upgrade to CW on a transatlantic flight. So for upgraders willing to pay the premium, it's far better to fly with BA or CO.
How many of us look completely stupid now to the friends we've switched over to AA?
I think I converted about 8-9 colleagues, got them on PLT challenges, mainly from CO. And now they have to pay to upgrade as well?
This will probably end up decreasing AAs revenue
For family and friends I'd usually upgrade them to J on international flights using the 50K miles for Christmas and birthday presents. Now spending 25K miles AND $500, that's getting expensive! What it's probably better to do now is just gift them a couple of free domestic r/t tickets, which would deprive AA of revenue it would have already gotten anyhow.
If this change affects VIPOWs, the complimentary domestic upgrade policy, or using stickers to HNL I'm switching to another carrier
Probably BA trans-Atlantic exclusively and maybe UA domestically and to Asia, using a status match in 2005.
Overall, these changes have shaken my view of American Airlines and frequent flier programs in general
What is the point of being loyal to an airline if they can make all kinds of changes like this? Now it's pay to upgrade, no more MRTC.... What differentiates AA from any other airline??
Maybe it's time for a new hobby-- my gf is always telling me we should get our pilot's licenses or learn to sail. Everytime she sees contrails in the sky she's like, "Look, Charles there goes your money!" If I knew as much about the stock market and mutual funds as I do about frequent flier miles, well.... Maybe it's time to start reading the book she gave me for my birthday-- Mutual Funds for Dummies.
Last edited by CharlesMD; Oct 5, 2004 at 12:59 pm
#86
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Dallas, TX, AA 3MM EXP, WN
Posts: 1,808
Well at least the employees will have an easy time getting into F or J
#87
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 463
Originally Posted by MrMan
Well at least the employees will have an easy time getting into F or J
#88
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: FLL, over-inflated EGO due to EXP status
Posts: 4,519
Originally Posted by CharlesMD
Maybe it's time for a new hobby-- my gf is always telling me we should get our pilot's licenses or learn to sail. Everytime she sees contrails in the sky she's like, "Look, Charles there goes your money!" If I knew as much about the stock market and mutual funds as I do about frequent flier miles, well.... Maybe it's time to start reading the book she gave me for my birthday-- Mutual Funds for Dummies.
#89
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Dallas, TX, AA 3MM EXP, WN
Posts: 1,808
Originally Posted by platboy
LOL. The real impetus for this policy change is to make more room for complete non-revs
#90
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: San Francisco
Programs: DL DM, 1MM AA PLT 2MM, Marriott Lifetime Titanium, and...Smiles Diamante
Posts: 2,780
curious -- is/was AA the last major carrier offering int'l mileage upgrades off of any fare (with or with out a co-pay?)