rumor : new upgrade co-payment effective 01dec04
Dec 1, 2004, 8:47 am
#646
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA Plat
Posts: 253
Well, I didn't get the reservation ticketed that I had been working on. I came in from LGW late Monday to find out my phone and computer were not functioning because of a telephone company problem. By the time it was working late yesterday I didn't have time to get my plans sorted out. Grrrr! I am now considering maybe going back to BA and traveling in WT+ and possibly upgrading from there. If I try BA for a year and don't like it, the worst case is I will be gold for a year on AA. The majority of my international travel is DFW to Europe usually via the UK. Is this a good option?
Dec 1, 2004, 9:40 am
#647
Suspended
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,735
There are offers from DFW currently:
There is also a companion flies free offer in Club and FIRST which might work out economically if travelling with your partner:
http://www.britishairways.com/travel...1/public/en_us
With the WT+ to Club World upgrade you get Club Europe on the European Sector (the Business Class) with slightly wider seats, marginally more legroom but mainly the benefit apart from seperate check in and lounge is a hot meal and champagne. It often costs no more for the European sector, so it can be good value.
Originally Posted by apudme
You can check out World Traveller Plus, which is easily upgradeable return for 25,000 BA Miles which you can earn by signing up for a BA Visa and either fly AA domestically or use other BA Partners/purchase miles (15,000 BA Miles cost $437, less than the co-payment) to get the required miles.
http://www.britishairways.com/travel...p/public/en_us
Want a more comfortable way to fly to London? Why not try our premier economy class, World Traveller PlusSM from as little as $235 (one-way based on round-trip purchase from Detroit, Houston and Dallas to London, fees, taxes and restrictions apply)*. That's only $50** more each way than our regular economy sale fare.
This class of service has its own private, quieter cabin, with more space and enhanced comfort. Features include:
Wider seat with 7 inches more seat pitch (total pitch 38") and greater recline, extending leg and footrests, plus inflatable lumbar support.
Personal seat-back video screen with up to 18 channels of entertainment.
Laptop power port and personal telephone at every seat.
Three course gourmet meal with complimentary wines, spirits and beverages.
Double the hand baggage allowance of World Traveller (2 pieces totalling 26.4lbs.).
Executive Club members earn bonus miles (125% of miles flown on all WT+ fares) and tier points.
To learn more about World Traveller Plus or any of our other products, please click here.
To try World Traveller Plus for yourself, please be sure to select Premier Economy as your cabin class during the booking process.
Click here to return the previous page to book.
If you only require World Traveller Plus in one direction, please contact your travel agent.
* Airfare shown is one-way based on round-trip, 42-day advance purchase, select “T” class midweek (Mon.-Wed.) fares from Detroit, Houston and Dallas to London. Weekend travel (Thu.-Sun.) has a $30 surcharge each way. Travel valid Dec.28, 2004-Mar.13, 2005. Fares may be higher for other travel dates, from other US departure gateways and to other European destinations. Fares subject to gov't. approval & do not include gov't. fees & taxes of approximately $142 and a $2.50 September 11 Security Fee. Min. stay Sat. night required. All travel must be completed by Aug.31, 2005. Subject to availability. Other significant restrictions apply. For other Terms & Conditions of fares, click here.
** Difference between the one-way based on round-trip, 7-day advance purchase, World Traveller N class fare from Detroit, Dallas and Houston to London for travel Dec.24, 2004 and Mar.13, 2005 and the one-way based on round-trip purchase, 42-day advance purchase, World Traveller Plus T class fare from Detroit, Dallas and Houston to London for travel Dec.28, 2004-Mar.13, 2005. Fare differential will be higher from other US gateways and to other European destinations. Subject to availability. Other significant restrictions apply.
http://www.britishairways.com/travel...p/public/en_us
Want a more comfortable way to fly to London? Why not try our premier economy class, World Traveller PlusSM from as little as $235 (one-way based on round-trip purchase from Detroit, Houston and Dallas to London, fees, taxes and restrictions apply)*. That's only $50** more each way than our regular economy sale fare.
This class of service has its own private, quieter cabin, with more space and enhanced comfort. Features include:
Wider seat with 7 inches more seat pitch (total pitch 38") and greater recline, extending leg and footrests, plus inflatable lumbar support.
Personal seat-back video screen with up to 18 channels of entertainment.
Laptop power port and personal telephone at every seat.
Three course gourmet meal with complimentary wines, spirits and beverages.
Double the hand baggage allowance of World Traveller (2 pieces totalling 26.4lbs.).
Executive Club members earn bonus miles (125% of miles flown on all WT+ fares) and tier points.
To learn more about World Traveller Plus or any of our other products, please click here.
To try World Traveller Plus for yourself, please be sure to select Premier Economy as your cabin class during the booking process.
Click here to return the previous page to book.
If you only require World Traveller Plus in one direction, please contact your travel agent.
* Airfare shown is one-way based on round-trip, 42-day advance purchase, select “T” class midweek (Mon.-Wed.) fares from Detroit, Houston and Dallas to London. Weekend travel (Thu.-Sun.) has a $30 surcharge each way. Travel valid Dec.28, 2004-Mar.13, 2005. Fares may be higher for other travel dates, from other US departure gateways and to other European destinations. Fares subject to gov't. approval & do not include gov't. fees & taxes of approximately $142 and a $2.50 September 11 Security Fee. Min. stay Sat. night required. All travel must be completed by Aug.31, 2005. Subject to availability. Other significant restrictions apply. For other Terms & Conditions of fares, click here.
** Difference between the one-way based on round-trip, 7-day advance purchase, World Traveller N class fare from Detroit, Dallas and Houston to London for travel Dec.24, 2004 and Mar.13, 2005 and the one-way based on round-trip purchase, 42-day advance purchase, World Traveller Plus T class fare from Detroit, Dallas and Houston to London for travel Dec.28, 2004-Mar.13, 2005. Fare differential will be higher from other US gateways and to other European destinations. Subject to availability. Other significant restrictions apply.
http://www.britishairways.com/travel...1/public/en_us
With the WT+ to Club World upgrade you get Club Europe on the European Sector (the Business Class) with slightly wider seats, marginally more legroom but mainly the benefit apart from seperate check in and lounge is a hot meal and champagne. It often costs no more for the European sector, so it can be good value.
Dec 1, 2004, 9:06 pm
#648
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: Various Programs of Interest & LT Collector.
Posts: 1,483
Just implemented . I have a flight Saturday that I just tried to upgrade on.
$250 fee was mentioned. Decided not to do the upgrade. Might as well use 90k miles for a Business Class Award:
$250 fee was mentioned. Decided not to do the upgrade. Might as well use 90k miles for a Business Class Award:
Originally Posted by pdog02
Check AA.com very carefully on or about 06oct04. Not quite the /hokey/ process of CO,or the restricted fares of DL UA NW, but pretty close.
Dec 8, 2004, 7:12 pm
#649
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 317
Send them an email!
Here is an email sent to CR regarding this. If everyone complains and stops flying AA maybe they will get the message. As for me the 300,000 miles I have in my AA account will go towards free tickets now. 
Dear Sirs:
After reading FlyerTalk Fourms I found that AA will be charging $250 each way to use upgrades on discounted international fares. I strongly suggest you reconsider this decision. Prior to changing my flying to AA I was a Premier Executive member of United Airlines. I changed to AA even though your flights and routes are not as convenient as the United schedule. I will not continue to fly AA if this charge is implemented. And this is not a threat it is a promise.
After reading FlyerTalk Fourms I found that AA will be charging $250 each way to use upgrades on discounted international fares. I strongly suggest you reconsider this decision. Prior to changing my flying to AA I was a Premier Executive member of United Airlines. I changed to AA even though your flights and routes are not as convenient as the United schedule. I will not continue to fly AA if this charge is implemented. And this is not a threat it is a promise.
Dec 8, 2004, 7:53 pm
#650
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,696
Good e-mail...but expect the standard canned response that we have all received... 
Dec 9, 2004, 2:17 am
#651
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: UK countryside
Posts: 1,031
I just discovered the joys of B class fares 
Ł400ish return from LHR to JFK. Counts as full fare for the transatlantic bonuses, only 10K miles to upgrade and, best of all, no co-pay!!
Ł400ish return from LHR to JFK. Counts as full fare for the transatlantic bonuses, only 10K miles to upgrade and, best of all, no co-pay!!
Dec 9, 2004, 7:50 am
#652
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,748
Originally Posted by AndrewC
I just discovered the joys of B class fares
Ł400ish return from LHR to JFK. Counts as full fare for the transatlantic bonuses, only 10K miles to upgrade and, best of all, no co-pay!!
Ł400ish return from LHR to JFK. Counts as full fare for the transatlantic bonuses, only 10K miles to upgrade and, best of all, no co-pay!!
But the good news is JFK-LHR flights are the easiest to upgrade although too short for overnights to get any sleep.
Dec 9, 2004, 10:00 am
#653
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,052
Originally Posted by AndrewC
I just discovered the joys of B class fares
Ł400ish return from LHR to JFK. Counts as full fare for the transatlantic bonuses, only 10K miles to upgrade and, best of all, no co-pay!!
Ł400ish return from LHR to JFK. Counts as full fare for the transatlantic bonuses, only 10K miles to upgrade and, best of all, no co-pay!!
S-class == $830 + $500 fee + 50,000 miles (if upgrade is available)
I-class (business) == $1630 which is cheeper than any published B-class (economy)
So, is 50,000 ( - earned 15, 724 for a platinum) miles worth $330 ?
Or, is 90,000 (+ lost earned 17,690 for a platinum) miles worth $1630 ?
It used to be easy... upgrading was always the best use of miles. Now with the $500 round trip fee and proliferation of highly discounted business class fares it's no longer that easy.
DAK
Last edited by dkerr; Dec 9, 2004 at 10:10 am
Dec 9, 2004, 5:14 pm
#654
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,709
Originally Posted by dkerr
So, is 50,000 ( - earned 15, 724 for a platinum) miles worth $330 ?
Or, is 90,000 (+ lost earned 17,690 for a platinum) miles worth $1630 ?
DAK
Or, is 90,000 (+ lost earned 17,690 for a platinum) miles worth $1630 ?
DAK
90K + 18K = 108K miles vs. $1630, which works out to .015 cpm. The 90K free ticket is clearly a better value than the 50K upgrade w/co-pay, plus the convenience of being able to change/cancel award tix (even with fees). The major downside is the loss of 7K-12K EQM, depending on your departure city.
I bet that AA will lose money on this deal as more people start using 90K awards or simple fly coach. Not to mention the reduced revenue from selling cheaper I tickets.
I'm really curious about what management plans to do with all those empty seats in C. Fill with employees? Op-ups? Or sell upgrades at the gate like UA does?
Dec 14, 2004, 2:05 pm
#655
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 317
Response from AA
Here is the reply to a letter appearing in a previous posting. I have a feeling this was a mass produced letter, 
at least in part (is implemented later this year. ) I guess its back to UAL. I like their C seats better 
do you still get free mags? 
Reply from: Customer Relations, American Airlines.
"That is the direction taken by most of our competition. The majority of carriers do not permit Upgrade Awards in conjunction with many discount economy fare tickets, restricting their use to only the highest fare classes."
My reply to the above statement: This is why I left United, where I was a 1K flyer, even though the routes and schedules on UAL were more favorable then those of AA. If you are going to change your policy then there is no reason why myself nor my clients should continue flying AA.
Thank you for your explanation, after I use up the mileage I have now, I won't be flying AA again.
By the way, you mention your competitors upgrade policies, have you noticed that most of those competitors are in bankruptcy? Is this the direction AA wants to "fly"?
If your competitors were making money with such policies I could understand changing yours to match, but when it is a bad idea you shouldn't follow their poor business practices. In these uncertain times AA shouldn't rock the boat with such a drastic change that effects ALL their elite flyers.
You wooed us with your FF program now you are forcing us to reconsider. The only ones who will benefit from this policy change are your competitors.
Furthermore, on the leading FF Forums Board, FlyerTalk.com, this change has produced over 44 pages of negative responses and over 46,000 page views, one of the most controversial issues to hit that site.
at least in part (is implemented later this year. ) I guess its back to UAL. I like their C seats better do you still get free mags? Dear Mr. SoCalPLT:
We understand your objections to the $250 co-payment effective December 1, 2004 on AAdvantage® Upgrade Awards between North America and Europe, Japan and deep South America. Before we announced this change we carefully considered the impact on our members. We are convinced that there was no better alternative.
The reality today is that the disparity between discount and premium class fares is too great to be offset by miles alone. The addition of a co-pay allows members to continue to use their miles to upgrade to the next class of service even if they purchase discounted tickets. If instead we were to raise the mileage level, many members would have less opportunity to upgrade since it would require them to have more miles available. Since members already can use straight mileage awards for travel in our premium cabins, we felt it was important to keep Upgrade Awards at relatively low mileage levels for those who want to combine the award with a revenue ticket.
It is clear that customers want low fares and still want the opportunity to upgrade them. Supplementing that low fare with a co-pay enables members to continue to upgrade for the same amount of mileage they are accustomed to. At the same time, the co-pay enables us to continue to make our premium cabins available for mileage upgrades, even on discount fare tickets. The alternative would be to restrict Upgrade Awards for use only with full-fare tickets, which clearly would reduce the opportunity for our members to use their miles to upgrade.
That is the direction taken by most of our competition. The majority of carriers do not permit Upgrade Awards in conjunction with many discount economy fare tickets, restricting their use to only the highest fare classes. And the one carrier that does permit mileage upgrades from heavily discounted fares charges $200-$450, based on the price of the purchased ticket. American's Upgrade Awards will continue to be highly competitive, and provide exceptional value, even when the co-pay is implemented later this year.
Mr. SoCalPLT, thank you for contacting us about this important issue -- allowing us the opportunity to explain. You are a valued customer and your feedback is always welcome.
Sincerely,
########### (name removed)
Customer Relations
American Airlines
Here is my letter back to them.We understand your objections to the $250 co-payment effective December 1, 2004 on AAdvantage® Upgrade Awards between North America and Europe, Japan and deep South America. Before we announced this change we carefully considered the impact on our members. We are convinced that there was no better alternative.
The reality today is that the disparity between discount and premium class fares is too great to be offset by miles alone. The addition of a co-pay allows members to continue to use their miles to upgrade to the next class of service even if they purchase discounted tickets. If instead we were to raise the mileage level, many members would have less opportunity to upgrade since it would require them to have more miles available. Since members already can use straight mileage awards for travel in our premium cabins, we felt it was important to keep Upgrade Awards at relatively low mileage levels for those who want to combine the award with a revenue ticket.
It is clear that customers want low fares and still want the opportunity to upgrade them. Supplementing that low fare with a co-pay enables members to continue to upgrade for the same amount of mileage they are accustomed to. At the same time, the co-pay enables us to continue to make our premium cabins available for mileage upgrades, even on discount fare tickets. The alternative would be to restrict Upgrade Awards for use only with full-fare tickets, which clearly would reduce the opportunity for our members to use their miles to upgrade.
That is the direction taken by most of our competition. The majority of carriers do not permit Upgrade Awards in conjunction with many discount economy fare tickets, restricting their use to only the highest fare classes. And the one carrier that does permit mileage upgrades from heavily discounted fares charges $200-$450, based on the price of the purchased ticket. American's Upgrade Awards will continue to be highly competitive, and provide exceptional value, even when the co-pay is implemented later this year.
Mr. SoCalPLT, thank you for contacting us about this important issue -- allowing us the opportunity to explain. You are a valued customer and your feedback is always welcome.
Sincerely,
########### (name removed)
Customer Relations
American Airlines
Reply from: Customer Relations, American Airlines.
"That is the direction taken by most of our competition. The majority of carriers do not permit Upgrade Awards in conjunction with many discount economy fare tickets, restricting their use to only the highest fare classes."
My reply to the above statement: This is why I left United, where I was a 1K flyer, even though the routes and schedules on UAL were more favorable then those of AA. If you are going to change your policy then there is no reason why myself nor my clients should continue flying AA.
Thank you for your explanation, after I use up the mileage I have now, I won't be flying AA again.
By the way, you mention your competitors upgrade policies, have you noticed that most of those competitors are in bankruptcy? Is this the direction AA wants to "fly"?
If your competitors were making money with such policies I could understand changing yours to match, but when it is a bad idea you shouldn't follow their poor business practices. In these uncertain times AA shouldn't rock the boat with such a drastic change that effects ALL their elite flyers.
You wooed us with your FF program now you are forcing us to reconsider. The only ones who will benefit from this policy change are your competitors.
Furthermore, on the leading FF Forums Board, FlyerTalk.com, this change has produced over 44 pages of negative responses and over 46,000 page views, one of the most controversial issues to hit that site.
Last edited by Plato90s; Dec 30, 2004 at 8:45 am
Dec 14, 2004, 2:37 pm
#656
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: DFW AA PLT
Programs: SPG HHonors
Posts: 1,045
Originally Posted by SoCalPLT
Thank you for your explanation, after I use up the mileage I have now, I won't be flying AA again.
By the way, you mention your competitors upgrade policies, have you noticed that most of those competitors are in bankruptcy? Is this the direction AA wants to "fly"?
If your competitors were making money with such policies I could understand changing yours to match, but when it is a bad idea you shouldn't follow their poor business practices. In these uncertain times AA shouldn't rock the boat with such a drastic change that effects ALL their elite flyers.
You wooed us with your FF program now you are forcing us to reconsider. The only ones who will benefit from this policy change are your competitors.
Furthermore, on the leading FF Forums Board, FlyerTalk.com, this change has produced over 44 pages of negative responses and over 46,000 page views, one of the most controversial issues to hit that site.
Dec 14, 2004, 6:17 pm
#657
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: LAX / AA PLT
Posts: 142
Originally Posted by Boraxo
50K - 16K earned = 34K miles. If you value miles at .01, cost of miles used for upgrade is $340, close to the $330 cost to upgrade tix to I-class. Even less value for those of us who are not Plats. Essentially AA has devalued our miles to <.01 if we want to use them for international upgrades.
Dec 14, 2004, 6:28 pm
#658
Suspended
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,730
Originally Posted by ScottTexas
Great email! Please post Wendy's response when you get it...you basically shot down all their arguments.
Dec 14, 2004, 6:49 pm
#659
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SFO
Programs: AA PLT; UA Gold
Posts: 5,378
Originally Posted by fractal
I wonder if AA devAAlued the miles because - in some sense - the miles have become cheaper to accumulate via much lower overall fares in the market.
I know that AA gives CoS bonuses and 50% point credits for low-fare flights, but they still give 100% miles no matter what.
Dec 14, 2004, 9:40 pm
#660
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: DFW
Programs: AAEXP, and every other one on the planet
Posts: 319
Canned e-mail response
SoCalPLT, does this look familiar? (Received Tue 12/14/2004 12:40 PM from the WeCaare response machine...)
[I]We understand your objections to the $250 co-payment on AAdvantage® Upgrade Awards between North America and Europe, Japan and deep South America. Before we announced this change we carefully considered the impact on our members. We are convinced that there was no better alternative.
The reality today is that the disparity between discount and premium class fares is too great to be offset by miles alone. The addition of a co-pay allows members to continue to use their miles to upgrade to the next class of service even if they
purchase discounted tickets. If instead we were to raise the mileage level, many
members would have less opportunity to upgrade since it would require them to have
more miles available. Since members already can use straight mileage awards for
travel in our premium cabins, we felt it was important to keep Upgrade Awards at relatively low mileage levels for those who want to combine the award with a revenue ticket.
It is clear that customers want low fares and still want the opportunity to upgrade them. Supplementing that low fare with a co-pay enables members to continue to upgrade for the same amount of mileage they are accustomed to. At the same time, the co-pay enables us to continue to make our premium cabins available for mileage upgrades, even on discount fare tickets. The alternative would be to restrict Upgrade Awards for use only with full-fare tickets, which clearly would reduce the opportunity for our members to use their miles to upgrade.
That is the direction taken by most of our competition. The majority of carriers do not permit Upgrade Awards in conjunction with many discount economy fare tickets, restricting their use to only the highest fare classes. And the one carrier that does permit mileage upgrades from heavily discounted fares charges $200-$450, based on the price of the purchased ticket. American's Upgrade Awards will continue to be highly competitive, and provide exceptional value, even when the co-pay is implemented later
this year.
Thank you for contacting us about this important issue -- allowing us the opportunity to explain. You are a valued customer and your feedback is always welcome.
[I]We understand your objections to the $250 co-payment on AAdvantage® Upgrade Awards between North America and Europe, Japan and deep South America. Before we announced this change we carefully considered the impact on our members. We are convinced that there was no better alternative.
The reality today is that the disparity between discount and premium class fares is too great to be offset by miles alone. The addition of a co-pay allows members to continue to use their miles to upgrade to the next class of service even if they
purchase discounted tickets. If instead we were to raise the mileage level, many
members would have less opportunity to upgrade since it would require them to have
more miles available. Since members already can use straight mileage awards for
travel in our premium cabins, we felt it was important to keep Upgrade Awards at relatively low mileage levels for those who want to combine the award with a revenue ticket.
It is clear that customers want low fares and still want the opportunity to upgrade them. Supplementing that low fare with a co-pay enables members to continue to upgrade for the same amount of mileage they are accustomed to. At the same time, the co-pay enables us to continue to make our premium cabins available for mileage upgrades, even on discount fare tickets. The alternative would be to restrict Upgrade Awards for use only with full-fare tickets, which clearly would reduce the opportunity for our members to use their miles to upgrade.
That is the direction taken by most of our competition. The majority of carriers do not permit Upgrade Awards in conjunction with many discount economy fare tickets, restricting their use to only the highest fare classes. And the one carrier that does permit mileage upgrades from heavily discounted fares charges $200-$450, based on the price of the purchased ticket. American's Upgrade Awards will continue to be highly competitive, and provide exceptional value, even when the co-pay is implemented later
this year.
Thank you for contacting us about this important issue -- allowing us the opportunity to explain. You are a valued customer and your feedback is always welcome.
