eamus

Just out of interest, how does the two-seat policy at WN (and sometimes advocated here) work? Do you have two BPs with the same name? Or one BP with two seats? I thought the computers threw a hissy fit if you booked yourself twice on an itinerary, so I was wondering technically how it would work. And do you get double miles/credits, or just single? Apologies for the slightly OT post.

WingNaPrayer

I believe on Southwest, you get 1.5 times the miles if you have to buy a second seat - but you have to request them, provided there were no empty seats and you didn't apply for a refund on the second seat.

FWAAA

WN doesn't use "miles" in its Rapid Rewards program; for each paid flight, customers earn a credit. Rules are here:

http://www.southwest.com/rapid_rewar..._and_regs.html

Press Release from WN describing their really large person (aka Customer of Size) policies here:

http://www.southwest.com/about_swa/p...onal_seat.html

CMK10

It takes a big person to make someone miserable on a flight. Yet it takes a bigger one to appologize. Appology Accepted

ByrdluvsAWACO

I'm sorry, but those NAAFA people seem so self-centered.

http://www.naafa.org/documents/brochures/airtips.html

"ARMREST UP - When you get to your seat during pre-boarding, raise the armrest between seats. This may give you the inch or two of extra space you need. The chances are that the passenger who will be seated next to you won't say anything; if he does, smile pleasantly and say that you'll both be more comfortable if the armrest is up."

We'll both be more comfortable? I wish someone would try that.

"TRAY-TABLE - If you cannot bring down the tray-table, have the flight attendant ask the passenger in front of you to put their seat to the full upright position for mealtime. If this doesn't help, set a pillow on your lap, and your meal tray on the pillow."

So the FA should wake me up(if sleeping) so that the overweight guy can eat the meal he probably shouldn't be eating. So now this person is affecting the person next to him and the person in front as well.

I usually never have anything good to say about WN, but I applaud their policy. The other airlines need to get a backbone on this issue.

mitchell

I think I read somewhere that the average male's shoulders are 21" wide, but the airline coach seats are around 17".

Even if you aren't overweight... if I sit in coach next to big guys, it can get very tight. One reason I take aisle seats in coach is to use a bit of aisle space.

Luckily as I work my way from AA Platinum (challenge) to EXP, I've been getting whole rows to myself. :-)

----
Once in coach, I sat in the aisle next to an inexperienced flyer (inner-city appearance) who seemed to feel he could spread his legs as wide as he wanted...into both seats around him. I don't think he was trying to be an a-hole. He seemed very nervous about flying. My guess is he was unfamiliar with airplane ettiquette.

----
P.S. It would nice if airlines offered wide-coach seating. I wonder how many people would pay 150% fares? The current FC fares are very high for most of us.

AllanJ

"There is nothing we can do" said the flight attendant.

Wrong. There is plenty the airline can do prior to departure. For example deplane a standby passenger.

Travel tips:
http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/travel.htm

With the armrest down, the next passenger hogs all of it. With the armrest up, the next passenger crowds into your seat. Can't win.

NAAFA

Hello,

You may be interested to know that this issue has come up in the past several days on NAAFA's discussion boards as well.

It seems to arise more often with vacation travelers, who may be completely taken by surprise at the small width of airline seats. Few passengers would knowingly subject themselves to such a humiliating experience.

Coach class seat widths range from 16" to 19" with the mean pretty close to 17". ANSI standard for seat width is a minimum of 18.2" (FWIW).

Please remember that we are human beings too, who could very well be your sister, your father, your child, or your spouse, if not you. I'm sure that you would not want strangers making unkind remarks to, or about, your loved ones just because they happened not to fit in a 17" seat.

There are many possible solutions that airlines could design if they were truly interested in solving this problem. Average sized passengers, as well as large passengers, should expect airlines to come up with better solutions than the non-solutions they currently present.

Cheers,
RuthG
NAAFA Webmaster

grouse

Hi NAAFA, welcome to Flyertalk! What solutions do you suggest? I believe airlines generally will try to seat overweight people, as well as people with lap babies, next to an empty seat. But sometimes that isn't possible.

As far as changing the seat widths, . I'd love to have a wider seat but I don't want to pay for it. If you need a wider seat for whatever reason, you should have to pay for it.

grouse

Addendum: if you do want a wider seat, you could always fly YX. As a NAAFA member points out on the linked bulletin board:

In summary, if you're overweight, fly YX, since it offers:

• wide seats
• cookies

You can't make this up!

richarddd

I would hope you wouldn't want someone taking up half of your seat (not to mention taking away your armrest). In many cases, the large person would not fit into an 18" or 20" seat either.

It's hard to think of a solution beyond allocating more space to each passenger. This would cost money. The airlines will pass the costs along to the passengers. Should everyone have to pay more because some can't fit in a standard seat? Or should just the individual who can't fit be charged?

EDIT: I see grouse posted before me and phrased it better:

As far as changing the seat widths, I'd love to have a wider seat but I don't want to pay for it. If you need a wider seat for whatever reason, you should have to pay for it.

NAAFA

Hi,

I have seen several possible solutions.

The ones I personally happen to like:

1) Standardize airline seating width.

At least if a customer can accurately predict the size of the seat on the aircraft on which he or she will be traveling, he or she can then determine in advance whether to book 1 seat, 2 seats, a First Class seat, or take an alternative form of transportation.

Right now, even if a customer knows enough to go to the trouble of looking up the seat width on the scheduled aircraft, airlines can substitute a different aircraft with a different seat width at the last minute, leaving the unsuspecting large passenger stranded in an airport (perhaps not either the departure or destination airport, but a connection point en route) franitically (and humiliatingly) calling friends and relatives begging them to wire funds to the airport to purchase an additional seat to complete their trip.

2) Given the current situation: Treat it like any other overbooking situation and ask for a volunteer to take a bump (who may or may not be the large passenger; any volunteer would do). I have never been on a flight on which there was not at least one passenger willing (or even eager) to take a voluntary bump.

If airlines find themselves having bump passengers too often for this reason, perhaps it is time for them to have their ergonomic engineers re-assess their "standard" seat width, because the seat widths they offer apparently do not fit the population they are serving.

3) I like the seat-and-a-half for the price of a ticket-and-a-half option. I suspect that many passengers would prefer, for various reasons, to purchase 1.5x the typical coach seat width for 1.5x the typical coach seat price. Let the market forces work, and see if this option flies (as it were).

4) Airlines should pose the problem to their own ergonomic engineers, who presumably have the expertise and training to develop alternative solutions, and see what they come up with.

We amateurs can guess all we want at what kind of solutions might be economically feasible, but the people who really should be setting their minds to solving the problem are engineers whose expertise and training has prepared them to develop better solutions.

That is my personal view (speaking for myself only, not an official NAAFA spokesperson).

Cheers,
RuthG

Dakota

Why are these ridiculous euphemisms used if there is nothing to be ashamed of? Please,people, the terms are overweight, fat, obese and morbidly obese, respectively.

I'm fat. Not so much so that I can't fly in Y (God forbid) without more than discomfort and certainly without impingeing upon those around me. If I could not fit in my seat without inflicting discomfort on others, I simply would not fly in it. The onus is on the fatty to make other arrangements, not for others to accommodate him/her by sacrificing their own, precious little, space allotment. Personally, I find the NAAFA advice to the obese to lift armrests, "have someone ask" for the passenger in front to sit upright, etc. so that they may selfishly grab others' space to be repulsive and outrageous. Do these people not have any dignity or respect for themselves or others?

If you can't fit into the seat offered in your class of service without "spilling over", then buy more seats, upgrade or don't fly.

grouse

^

It would also mean the airline could easily say: "this is the size seat you must fit in in order to guarantee travel with only one purchased ticket."

Isn't that what they're supposed to do now? That's certainly what I expect. And if the airline is going to have to pay out vouchers to someone else so that the large passenger can stay on, the large passenger should have to pay for an extra seat.

Some airlines are now offering premium economy seating which has wider seats on international routes. This still doesn't solve the problem of a large pax who doesn't want to pay extra for this (just like one who doesn't want to pay extra for first or an extra seat in coach).

JuPe

In Denmark, Maersk Air is currently offering (trial until the end of October) the following system:
SMALL-seats: 70 cm (27,5 in) between seats, normal price
MEDIUM-seats: 80 cm (31,5 in) between seats, normal price+200 DKK (33 USD)
LARGE-seats: 90 cm (35,5 in) between seats, normal price+400 DKK (66 USD)
EXTRA LARGE-seats: 90 cm (35,5 in) between seats and 50% extra width, normal price+1400 DKK (232 USD)