5DMarkIIguy

I tried to ticket the following 2 itineraries

Itin 1.
SFO-LAX-ORD-NRT-SGN in AA F, AA F, JL F, JL J

Itin 2.
SFO - JFK - NRT -SGN in AA F, JL F, JL J

Itin 2 didn't ticket. I called and EXP desk said the award should cost 100k miles, 32.5k for SFO-JFK, and 67.5k for JFK-SGN because I'm backtracking. Isn't Itin 1 backtracking as well? I got eticket for Itin 1.

pandaperth

Itin 1 - your 'over water' carrier is AA, and it's known that AA can be more flexible with the rules when it is the overwater carrier (and/or its fare rules allow the routing)

Itin 2 - your over water carrier is JL. So JL must publish a SFO-SGN fare that allows your proposed routing (or a fare that has no specified routing and whose MPM+25% allows your routing)

guv1976

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry: BlackBerry8530/5.0.0.601 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/417)

JL appears to be the over-water carrier in both of the itineraries cited.

pandaperth

Oops, yes you are right

JonNYC

Good catch, and, agreed. And as such, the JL filed fares appear to have a MPM of 9396, so SFO - JFK - NRT -SGN (which is major back-tracking,) not surprisingly, exceeds the MPM + 25% generally allowed on MPM files fares.

5DMarkIIguy

Yes, JL is the over the water carrier in both cases.
So the ORD route went through because it's still under MPM*1.25?

JonNYC

Well, it -is- under that, so, I'd say that's a pretty good assumption-- with the standard caveat that sometimes we find surprises and or unexplainable rejections/approvals outside of the info we do have.

supergrandslam

Wow, quite interesting to see your post here, welcome back?

As I am relatively new to this world, I have not seen your live posts here before.

I believe TB will be fine, right?

JonNYC

Yes, travelingbetter will live on and be greatly improved by my posting both here and there. In fact, getting reactivated here was a key, essential piece of the complicated puzzle to the path to be able to get TB back on it's feel, which I hope to do in short order. Of course, recent changes at AA were key there as well.

And, trust me, strange for me to see my live posts here as well-- but very happy to be back.

nldogbert

Hi,

I am wondering if my understanding is correct.
I read and understood that for within a single zone award, the MPM is the direct distance between the start and the end destination within that zone with a 25% MPM over.
Is this a correct understanding?

I was trying to maximize (and do a crazy routing), KUL-HKG-SIN-CMB. When the agent found all seats available, I was told that I would be charged 2x the OW award because it was not the direct routing (no flights found) and that they have no fare for this routing. Help desk and pricing dept. could not provide any answer as to why?

My question, is is because of the MPM ruling rather than the fare rule that it is not possible to do such a routing?

Cheers!

ckpeter

Your assumption of what MPM is not accurate. MPM is based on the fares or is a published number. It is higher than the direct distance between two points. In order to find out the MPM, you have to look at the fare that is applicable.

I recommend you sign up for a service like Expertflyer, which can give you the fares available in a origin-destination pair market, including MPM fares. This can come in handy when you need to argue with an agent about whether an itinerary can be redeemed for a single award. I probably saved 100K - 150K miles in the last few years, just by knowing the routing rules and being able to argue for it.

nldogbert

Thanks for confirming, that was what I thought. Anyway, I checked for a Business and economy ticket for the exact same routing and carriers, but I do not see in ITA any MPM information, what I see is that the fare can be used to form any combinations, stopovers, open jaws, etc.

Any idea why both AA help desk and Pricing dept is not able to tell me why exactly this needs to be issued as 2 rewards? I don't even know how to argue when they are not able to tell me the reason.

Thanks.

KVS

Your routing is way over the MPM (1831):

[KVS Availability Tool 7.3.4 - Reference: Maximum Permitted Mileage [MPM]: KUL-HKG-SIN-CMB]

ckpeter

I haven't seen ITA matrix fare details display containing MPM or routing information. I use Expertflyer for that. KVS posted the MPM information above. I am not sure if their tool has fare routing rules information, but I am sure they can clarify.

My understanding that you need either an MPM fare or a specific permitted routing in a published fare for your primary carrier.

I wouldn't count on front-line personnel to have the full knowledge to explain everything. This is why it's important to arm yourself with the right tools and knowledge, to push for those edge cases.

In any case, I don't think any self-respecting carrier would publish a fare that permits you to bounce around Southeast Asia just to get from KUL to CMB.

xrl789

Sorry if this was addressed before. I have a partner award (no legs flown yet) from DCA-JFK-HKG-BKK booked pre-merger. I'm hoping to change the first leg from an AA flight to a US Air flight - DCA-LGA-HKG-BKK with DCA-LGA on a later date. Rep is telling me this will require reinstatement of award. That's not true, is it? Still a partner award, simply changing outbound travel date?