The future of AA wide body business class seats?

 
Old Oct 3, 15, 3:13 am
  #1  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: HKG
Posts: 42
The future of AA wide body business class seats?

This was published here, among other places: http://http://viewfromthewing.boardi...-200787-seats/

The B787-8 program will remain unchanged and deliver in its entirety with the Zodiac Business Suite. This will include the last three aircraft that deliver in 2017 after we take a break for some B787-9 deliveries.

The B787-9 program will all deliver with a new Business Class seat product.

The B777-200 260-seat configuration (13 aircraft) that we are retrofitting now will be completed with the Zodiac Business Suite.

The B777-200 289-seat configuration (34 aircraft) will be mixed between the Zodiac Business Suite and the new Business Class seat. We have not finalized the exact numbers, but expect the Zodiac Business Suite will be on no more than 10 of the 289-seat aircraft.

We will keep 13 aircraft in a 260 seat configuration, which will be one subfleet. For the 289 seat configuration, if we mix seat types, the seat maps may be different, but the configuration will remain the same.
Not having flown the new Zodiac seat yet, I have no view whether this is good or bad news from the seat quality perspective. But, I have a few thoughts/questions:
  1. Is this why the retrofit of the 777-200 has been moving SOOOOO slowly?
  2. Will AA go back to the (superior?) CX seat for the remainder of the 777-200s and the 787-9s? but aren't those also made by Zodiac?...
  3. Am I the only one missing the old AA where, whichever aircraft you flew, you knew your long-haul biz seat would be (more or less) the same? now we will have such a mix, with 3 types on 777s, 2 types on 787s, different type on retrofitted 767s, presumably different still on retrofitted 757s, and then the legacy US 333s and 757s...
NYC212 is offline  
Old Oct 3, 15, 7:12 am
  #2  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East Coast
Programs: AA CONCIERGE KEY, HILTON DIAMOND
Posts: 8,282
Originally Posted by NYC212 View Post
This was published here, among other places: http://http://viewfromthewing.boardi...-200787-seats/



Not having flown the new Zodiac seat yet, I have no view whether this is good or bad news from the seat quality perspective. But, I have a few thoughts/questions:
  1. Is this why the retrofit of the 777-200 has been moving SOOOOO slowly?
  2. Will AA go back to the (superior?) CX seat for the remainder of the 777-200s and the 787-9s? but aren't those also made by Zodiac?...
  3. Am I the only one missing the old AA where, whichever aircraft you flew, you knew your long-haul biz seat would be (more or less) the same? now we will have such a mix, with 3 types on 777s, 2 types on 787s, different type on retrofitted 767s, presumably different still on retrofitted 757s, and then the legacy US 333s and 757s...
Apparently, AA is not pleased with Zodiac's delivery performance and that's why they are considering other suppliers:

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...ss-seats.html/

Technically, AA is not the only major airline with different flat beds, as DL pretty much has the same issue.

UA is the only one of the the US3 that has a bit more consistency with only two types of flat beds: the standard 2x4x2 for 744s and pre-merger United 772s and the standard 2x2 (752 aircraft only) and 2x2x2 on select 772s for pre-merger Continental aircraft. However, UA's seats aren't nearly as comfortable as AA and DL's latest flat beds.
fly747first is offline  
Old Oct 3, 15, 7:17 am
  #3  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Programs: DL 1 million, AA 1 mil, HH lapsed Diamond, Marriott Plat
Posts: 28,174
Originally Posted by NYC212 View Post
Am I the only one missing the old AA where, whichever aircraft you flew, you knew your long-haul biz seat would be (more or less) the same?
One doesn't have to go too far back in time to find 777-200ER models with two radically different styles of F seats. Maybe your experience with AA is all more recent.

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...l#post11522947
3Cforme is offline  
Old Oct 3, 15, 7:58 am
  #4  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,444
Originally Posted by NYC212 View Post
[*]Is this why the retrofit of the 777-200 has been moving SOOOOO slowly
yes

Originally Posted by NYC212 View Post
[*]Will AA go back to the (superior?) CX seat for the remainder of the 777-200s and the 787-9s? but aren't those also made by Zodiac?...
yes, they are (and therefore will not be using the 77W (Cirrus) seat that CX also uses.) AA and Zodiac are now in a legal posture with each other, as you'll see in the thread on this subject, below.

Thread on this is here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...l#post25470774

Original post on this development (the blogs all picked it up after this post on FT) here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25470774-post1770.html

Last edited by JonNYC; Oct 3, 15 at 8:04 am
JonNYC is offline  
Old Oct 3, 15, 8:46 am
  #5  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: HKG
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by 3Cforme View Post
One doesn't have to go too far back in time to find 777-200ER models with two radically different styles of F seats. Maybe your experience with AA is all more recent.
That's quite a few years back. F has been standardized for quite some time now. And in any way I was specifically talking about J seats.

Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
yes


yes, they are (and therefore will not be using the 77W (Cirrus) seat that CX also uses.) AA and Zodiac are now in a legal posture with each other, as you'll see in the thread on this subject, below.

Thread on this is here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/ameri...l#post25470774

Original post on this development (the blogs all picked it up after this post on FT) here:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/25470774-post1770.html
Missed that. Thanks.

Last edited by Microwave; Oct 8, 15 at 1:44 am Reason: Merged consecutive posts for readability
NYC212 is offline  
Old Oct 3, 15, 9:31 am
  #6  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,444
Originally Posted by NYC212 View Post
Missed that. Thanks.
Sure thing!
JonNYC is offline  
Old Oct 3, 15, 10:08 am
  #7  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Austin, TX
Programs: Airline Free Agent, Hilton, Hyatt, IHG
Posts: 1,504
Originally Posted by NYC212 View Post
[*]Am I the only one missing the old AA where, whichever aircraft you flew, you knew your long-haul biz seat would be (more or less) the same? now we will have such a mix, with 3 types on 777s, 2 types on 787s, different type on retrofitted 767s, presumably different still on retrofitted 757s, and then the legacy US 333s and 757s...
The old AA may have consistent J seats but they were angled seats which aren't as good as true flat seats. As AA is now updating its J seats there will be a transition period where there are several types of J seats. Long term all J seats will be true lie flat. The benefit of this is AA will be installing newest , greatest J seats on new aircraft deliveries as opposed to continue installing older style J seats for consistency sake.
Austin787 is offline  
Old Oct 3, 15, 10:18 am
  #8  
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Programs: AA Platinum, Marriott Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 136
Originally Posted by Austin787 View Post
AA will be installing newest , greatest J seats on new aircraft deliveries
talk about delusions
Hollinger Clarke is offline  
Old Oct 3, 15, 10:55 am
  #9  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Arizona
Posts: 4,580
To bad because I enjoyed the new flat beds on the ER routes such DFW>LHR, LHR >LAX
Centurion is offline  
Old Oct 3, 15, 5:14 pm
  #10  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Programs: QFF
Posts: 5,295
Maybe they could get the Recaro CL6710 that QF is installing on its A330s.
Himeno is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 2:32 am
  #11  
Original Poster
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: HKG
Posts: 42
Originally Posted by Austin787 View Post
The old AA may have consistent J seats but they were angled seats which aren't as good as true flat seats. As AA is now updating its J seats there will be a transition period where there are several types of J seats.
...and at the end of the transition period we will have 6 or 7 or 8 different "true flat" seats.

Precisely what I said I'm missing -- consistency. Not angled flat seats (which were, by the way, the best of their class IMHO).
NYC212 is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 8:00 am
  #12  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: FIND ME ON TWITTER FOR THE LATEST
Posts: 27,444
Originally Posted by NYC212 View Post
...and at the end of the transition period we will have 6 or 7 or 8 different "true flat" seats.
Let's not get carried away with exaggerations, no, we will not. (Exluding domestic transcontinental A321 3-cabin from the count, needless to say.)
JonNYC is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 9:58 am
  #13  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston, MA (BOS)
Programs: AA EXP MM, DL Gold, SPG Plat, AMEX Plat, HHonors Gold, RC Rewards Gold, VIPorter
Posts: 5,553
Originally Posted by JonNYC View Post
Let's not get carried away with exaggerations, no, we will not. (Exluding domestic transcontinental A321 3-cabin from the count, needless to say.)
Agreed. DL has several types as well of varying quality and spaciousnes.
AAerSTL is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 12:23 pm
  #14  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA LT Plat
Posts: 3,680
Originally Posted by NYC212 View Post
Is this why the retrofit of the 777-200 has been moving SOOOOO slowly?
I remember when AA went from the neckbreaker seats to the slantboard seats. (At that time, this seemed like an improvement to look forward to.) They stretched out that conversion over a long time also. So it's not purely a matter of the manufacturer being unable to deliver; AA likes to do these things slowly, either to avoid taking planes offline until scheduled major maintenance, or to spread the costs over multiple years. Or something.
SeeBuyFly is offline  
Old Oct 6, 15, 12:40 pm
  #15  
Moderator: American AAdvantage, TAP, Mexico, Technical Support and Feedback, and The Suggestion Box
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: NorCal - SMF area
Programs: AA LT Plat; HH LT Diamond, Maître-plongeur des Muccis
Posts: 61,499
Originally Posted by SeeBuyFly View Post
I remember when AA went from the neckbreaker seats to the slantboard seats. (At that time, this seemed like an improvement to look forward to.) They stretched out that conversion over a long time also. So it's not purely a matter of the manufacturer being unable to deliver; AA likes to do these things slowly, either to avoid taking planes offline until scheduled major maintenance, or to spread the costs over multiple years. Or something.
If you're going to have to take an aircraft out of service, particularly if you need to make some infrastructure changes to support 110 VAC, 5 VDC USB, etc. the best scheduling calls for doing these things during the time the hull will be taken out of service for required scheduled preventive maintenance.

Widebody "C" Checks

Because of the complexity of widebody aircraft, all "C" checks are "Heavy C" checks. The complete airframe inspection and service is done every 24 - 30 months. It takes approximately 10,000 man-hours and from two to four weeks to accomplish a widebody "C" check.
Perform the CIP on one or two hulls and shake down / trial the product, evaluate, issue mods the manufacturer must tool up. So, figure some 772s are close to "C" checks, but others had them done recently. It would take three years or longer to accomplish a particular retrofit under the best of circumstances.

Fire your seat manufacturer because of lengthy backlogs, add finding a new supplier, contracting, start production, etc. and we can see this is a lengthy process.

Last edited by JDiver; Oct 6, 15 at 1:00 pm Reason: Insert a paragraph
JDiver is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread